Trump's "Public Charge" Immigration Plan

[AdnanS 82]

Hi guys and gals,

 

I was wondering if any read the latest news on immigration updates this bat crazy adminstration is planning on implementing.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/456255/public-charge-immigrants-trumps-plan-enforce-law

 

Supposidly, if you use ACA (Affordable Care Act) you can be considered a public charge and would be considered a strike on the Green Card holder - (like my wife) (I'm a citizen) and this could then be grounds for deportation?

 

I do not understand how we can give a moron such power to change these sorts of things, with the whimp of his pen.

Edited February 9, 2018 by AdnanS

[WeGuyGal 1,052]

Consider the source.. links to a conservative site read by administration's supporters. One could argue some points raised merit a debate. 

[England2Wisco 13]

I was under the impression that you actually weren't meant to use public services until you're a citizen. I have no problem with that if I'm honest. Considering that the US makes sure you can support your foreign spouse before they are allowed to come over  - aka the minimum income requirement, I don't see how this is any different. It's only fair that you can financially support a foreign spouse without them going on welfare. ACA is a different kettle in my opinion - if they didn't want foreigners to use it, they should have made it impossible for foreigners to sign up. Fortunately, the times I didn't have HI through an employer, I signed up directly with the HI company - mainly because the exchange in MD was awful. 

 

anyway... I don't intend to use services until I become a citizen. I've been flying home to the UK for some healthcare as it's free and a better service in my opinion. 

[yuna628 9,676]

2 hours ago, AdnanS said:

Hi guys and gals,

 

I was wondering if any read the latest news on immigration updates this bat crazy adminstration is planning on implementing.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/456255/public-charge-immigrants-trumps-plan-enforce-law

 

Supposidly, if you use ACA (Affordable Care Act) you can be considered a public charge and would be considered a strike on the Green Card holder - (like my wife) (I'm a citizen) and this could then be grounds for deportation?

 

I do not understand how we can give a moron such power to change these sorts of things, with the whimp of his pen.

Note the following: it is a draft that has no formal approval, but it could, in theory, be in the pipeline eventually. I would caution skepticism as to the actual legality of it. Using the ACA is not considered being a public charge or a means tested benefit, so under current law, immigrants are allowed and welcome to use it. Hence it is interestingly why the memo states it would not make it 'illegal' to use it... that would of course require drafted legislation. It would consider use of it to the detriment of the immigrant's application effectively making something that is not illegal... in a de facto illegality. I would however point out there is another piece of legislation for immigration being proposed to effectively make it illegal for the immigrant to not purchase health insurance. Both are remarkable and conflicting ideas - one that has already been challenged by SCOTUS. A person cannot be compelled by a government to purchase or not purchase something.

 

A lot of the other things mentioned in the draft memo are already off-limits to immigrants anyway - but this one is a particular sticking point, and one that would hold absolutely no legal water. There are some items on the list that relate directly to state's rights, which I believe the government would also lose on.

 

1 hour ago, WeGuyGal said:

Consider the source.. links to a conservative site read by administration's supporters. One could argue some points raised merit a debate. 

It is a real memo - and it was leaked this week to several publications. As far as I'm hearing, it's legit.. but it hasn't gone far. It's one of those ideas that I can only hope doesn't go far unless they want to defend against a slew of lawsuits they will lose.

8 minutes ago, England2Wisco said:

I was under the impression that you actually weren't meant to use public services until you're a citizen. I have no problem with that if I'm honest. Considering that the US makes sure you can support your foreign spouse before they are allowed to come over  - aka the minimum income requirement, I don't see how this is any different. It's only fair that you can financially support a foreign spouse without them going on welfare. ACA is a different kettle in my opinion - if they didn't want foreigners to use it, they should have made it impossible for foreigners to sign up. Fortunately, the times I didn't have HI through an employer, I signed up directly with the HI company - mainly because the exchange in MD was awful. 

 

anyway... I don't intend to use services until I become a citizen. I've been flying home to the UK for some healthcare as it's free and a better service in my opinion. 

You aren't allowed to use some things (like Medicaid or Medicare) unless you have been here for 5 years or paid in 40 quarters. This memo does not clarify whether fair legal use meeting those requirements under the law would also be penalized - which is concerning. Beyond that though, as mentioned above, use of the ACA as described in the memo is a very problematic position for the government to take. This memo also prohibits, legally born USC children from services they are entitled to use under the law - an additionally troubling thing, that they would have a hard time defending.

 

As for use of the NHS: you are aware if you are a resident abroad you should no longer qualify for use under the NHS, and are subject to fines or pay the full cost of care. In order to reuse the NHS you would have to repatriate and return to the UK for a certain period of time.

[England2Wisco 13]

3 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

As for use of the NHS: you are aware if you are a resident abroad you should no longer qualify for use under the NHS, and are subject to fines or pay the full cost of care. In order to reuse the NHS you would have to repatriate and return to the UK for a certain period of time.

Even if you make voluntary national insurance contributions? 

[WeGuyGal 1,052]

8 minutes ago, England2Wisco said:

Even if you make voluntary national insurance contributions? 

Q- Are you allowed to do so (avail NHS benefits) as a legal US permanent resident? 

[yuna628 9,676]

1 minute ago, England2Wisco said:

Even if you make voluntary national insurance contributions? 

As far as I'm aware the rules are very clear on it - especially if the person resides in a non-EEA area. You paying into VNI does not change the rules currently into place unless you qualify under some very unique and narrow circumstances. Once you become a resident elsewhere outside the EEA (and these rules do also affect some within the EEA especially now), it's off limits. You are required to inform the government that you have left the UK. If you do not have health insurance from the US that can assist covering you while in the UK, you will be charged 150% of the NHS national tariff for care received. Once returned to the UK on a perm basis, the NHS is then available as normal.

[England2Wisco 13]

1 minute ago, yuna628 said:

As far as I'm aware the rules are very clear on it - especially if the person resides in a non-EEA area. You paying into VNI does not change the rules currently into place unless you qualify under some very unique and narrow circumstances. Once you become a resident elsewhere outside the EEA (and these rules do also affect some within the EEA especially now), it's off limits. You are required to inform the government that you have left the UK. If you do not have health insurance from the US that can assist covering you while in the UK, you will be charged 150% of the NHS national tariff for care received. Once returned to the UK on a perm basis, the NHS is then available as normal.

OK thanks!

 

I found this on the NHS site:

 

"British citizens/EEA/Swiss nationals who are visiting the UK may be charged for NHS services they receive at the point of accessing care. The final decision to charge will rest with the healthcare provider."

 

So I guess it's up to the surgery... but don't bank on it... 

[yuna628 9,676]

2 minutes ago, England2Wisco said:

OK thanks!

 

I found this on the NHS site:

 

"British citizens/EEA/Swiss nationals who are visiting the UK may be charged for NHS services they receive at the point of accessing care. The final decision to charge will rest with the healthcare provider."

 

So I guess it's up to the surgery... but don't bank on it... 

Quote

The payment of voluntary National Insurance contributions only counts towards the UK state pension and does not entitle non-residents to free treatment on the NHS. https://www.thenational.ae/business/can-a-non-resident-british-citizen-be-treated-on-the-national-health-service-1.240507

Quote

People Living Outside The EEA

People who live outside the EEA, including former UK residents, should now make sure they are covered by personal health insurance, unless an exemption applies to them. Anyone who does not have insurance will be charged at 150% of the NHS national tariff for any care they receive.

The NHS tariff price for a normal maternity birth is £2,188. For a major hip operation with an intermediate stay in hospital it is £7,826. So for non-residents without proper insurance cover these would cost £3,282 and £11,739 respectively.

Non-residents should also make sure their health insurance plan provides cover while in the UK as well as in their expat location.

Exemptions

There are several groups of people who are exempt from charging, or entitled to free care because they remain ordinarily resident despite spending time outside the UK. UK Crown servants, British Council or Commonwealth War Graves staff, those working in UK government-funded posts overseas, and the spouse/civil partner and children under 18 of these people, are exempt from charging if they were ordinarily resident prior to leaving the UK for that purpose. Those who were not ordinarily resident in the UK before taking up such a post will be charged.

There is also no change for armed forces members, war pensioners and armed forces compensation scheme recipients and their families, who are not required to have formerly been an ordinary resident of the UK.

Returning To The UK To Settle

Citizens who return to the UK on a settled basis will be classed as ordinarily resident, and will be eligible for free NHS care immediately. https://www.expatnetwork.com/expats-have-to-pay-for-nhs-care/

Quote

You will not be covered for healthcare paid for by the UK if you are going to live permanently outside the European Economic Area (EEA). https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/movingabroad/Pages/Introduction.aspx

 

[ApplyingforN400 126]

ACA is not a service to be used or not used. 

ACA is a LAW, that encompasses all of the US healthcare system, if you have insurance through your job, that means your job if providing you insurance through ACA rules. If you dont have a job you have to get insurance or get fined, which another ACA rule. 

 

Trump did strike down the tax fine if you dont have insurance. 

 

But people, learn what ACA is. Even if you have insurance through private provider its still considered ACA because the private provider has to play by ACA rules. 

[England2Wisco 13]

2 minutes ago, ApplyingforN400 said:

ACA is not a service to be used or not used. 

ACA is a LAW, that encompasses all of the US healthcare system, if you have insurance through your job, that means your job if providing you insurance through ACA rules. If you dont have a job you have to get insurance or get fined, which another ACA rule. 

 

Trump did strike down the tax fine if you dont have insurance. 

 

But people, learn what ACA is. Even if you have insurance through private provider its still considered ACA because the private provider has to play by ACA rules. 

So you're saying that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't? I am sure this wont gain traction though... right?

[ApplyingforN400 126]

I read the article, and its saying only ONE ACA rule will be considered a violation. There this thing called ACA subsidies (Insurance discounts and tax refunds) for families with low incomes. I guess if this ####### passes, immigrants have to reject the discount and pay full price or be considered  public charge. 

 

Personally, I think these are just nazi fantasies, tell your families to vote for those who want us treated like humans this Nov 

[yuna628 9,676]

Just now, England2Wisco said:

So you're saying that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't? I am sure this wont gain traction though... right?

Hard to say. This is a rough draft they may not see the light of day. If it was put into place, just know there would be some crazy suits - and rightfully so. This is a different article from yesterday. https://www.vox.com/2018/2/8/16993172/trump-regulation-immigrants-benefits-public-charge This article believes it may be taken more seriously by next month.

[Ontarkie 14,226]

~~Moved to CEHST, from ROC - as this has nothing to do with ROC and every to do with Current Events and Hot Topics.~~

[AdnanS 82]

Well, me and wife just decided to cancel our health insurance to be on the safe side until she becomes a citizen. Hoping this Removal of Condition is quickly apporved as its stuck in CSC.