Hillary Blasts Congress

[Sousuke 1,214]

Hopefully everyone here sees why such a maneuver would be disastrous, regardless if you like or dislike guns.

Its frightening that a politician would even think of this.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/politics/clinton-gun-bill/

Hillary Clinton faulted leaders in the House and Senate on Thursday for not allowing a vote on a bill that would make it illegal for people on the government's no-fly list to legally buy guns.

Clinton -- speaking in New York at the Brady Bear Awards Gala at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence -- told the audience that it is "long past time to say enough" on gun violence.

"Leaders in the House and Senate won't even allow a vote on whether we should prevent people on the no-fly list from buying guns, including possible terrorists," Clinton said. "It is just beyond one's imagination; these are people too dangerous to be let on airplanes but Congress won't stop them from getting guns. It is just something that makes no sense."

[Darnell 8,478]

Sorry, i thought this was a Hillary fart-joke.

But i digress..

If the bill not come out of committee, then not enough vote trading occurred. Thats it, thats all

[JamnSol 35]

I generally don't like restrictions on gun purchasing or ownership, but on this PARTICULAR aspect, I agree with Hilary- people judged unsafe to fly should not be able to buy a gun, certainly not without a much higher level of scrutiny.

[Sousuke 1,214]

I generally don't like restrictions on gun purchasing or ownership, but on this PARTICULAR aspect, I agree with Hilary- people judged unsafe to fly should not be able to buy a gun, certainly not without a much higher level of scrutiny.

How does a person get on the no fly list? What can a person do to get off the list? How many perfectly innocent people have been thrown on that list without due process?

[Dakine10 5,452]

I knew a guy a few years back who was on the no-fly list. He had no idea why, no one will tell him why, and he had no way of finding out or challenging that decision. Likely just a name match. I'm not sure if the process has improved in recent years.

Since most people on that list haven't actually done anything wrong, I see no reason why they need to face additional restrictions like this. It's just one more dog and pony show.

[JamnSol 35]

According to this article: https://www.yahoo.com/travel/8-ways-you-can-end-up-on-the-no-fly-list-128069176492.htmlthere are about 47,000 people on the list, 800 Americans in that group.

I am sure there are some mistakes, and that is unfortunate. However, the size of the list, relative to the size of the world population, or the size of the American portion relative to the population of our country, both are minuscule. So few people affected by this, and then an even smaller portion unjustly...

I would wager that more people are denied boarding passes for being obnoxious or drunk, or other discretionary reasons than are denied due to being on the list.

[Sousuke 1,214]

According to this article: https://www.yahoo.com/travel/8-ways-you-can-end-up-on-the-no-fly-list-128069176492.htmlthere are about 47,000 people on the list, 800 Americans in that group.

I am sure there are some mistakes, and that is unfortunate. However, the size of the list, relative to the size of the world population, or the size of the American portion relative to the population of our country, both are minuscule. So few people affected by this, and then an even smaller portion unjustly...

I would wager that more people are denied boarding passes for being obnoxious or drunk, or other discretionary reasons than are denied due to being on the list.

So then you support the removal of a person's rights without due process so long as it doesn't inconvenience the majority of the population. Does that sum up your position?

[JamnSol 35]

No, I suggest that most of the people on the list have done something to earn their listing, and the few mistakes and inconvenienced innocents are an unfortunate side affect. There have been successful challenges to being placed on the list, let the system (as dysfunctional as it often is) do its job.

[Dakine10 5,452]

According to this article: https://www.yahoo.com/travel/8-ways-you-can-end-up-on-the-no-fly-list-128069176492.htmlthere are about 47,000 people on the list, 800 Americans in that group.

I am sure there are some mistakes, and that is unfortunate. However, the size of the list, relative to the size of the world population, or the size of the American portion relative to the population of our country, both are minuscule. So few people affected by this, and then an even smaller portion unjustly...

I would wager that more people are denied boarding passes for being obnoxious or drunk, or other discretionary reasons than are denied due to being on the list.

It says one person on that list because of a clerical error (due to an FBI agent checking the wrong box) spent seven years of federal lawsuits to get their name removed. That's the biggest problem I have with this list. You can get on it for many different reasons, but you can't get off it. At least not easily.

[lostinblue 1,989]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ted-kennedys-airport-adventure/

The Senate Judiciary Committee heard Thursday morning from one of its own about some of the problems with airline "watch" lists.

Massachusetts Democrat Ted Kennedy says he had a close encounter with the lists when trying to take the US Airways shuttle out of Washington to Boston.

The ticket agent wouldn't let him on the plane. His name was on the list in error. With help from an airport supervisor, Kennedy was able to fly home, but then the same thing happened coming back to Washington. Some phone calls straightened things out.

Kennedy says he had to enlist the help of Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge to get his name stricken from the list. The process took several weeks, in all.

And Kennedy asks what about the little guy?

The Department of Homeland Security tried to explain the incidents. A DHS spokesman said that on one flight Kennedy was misidentified as someone who needed extra screening when going through security, because he was mistakenly identified as someone on a watch list.

Another time, the spokesman says, Kennedy was tagged for extra screening under a security system that watches for such factors as a person buying a one-way ticket or paying with cash.

He says Kennedy was never on a "no-fly" list, which automatically keeps a person off a plane.

[Sousuke 1,214]

No, I suggest that most of the people on the list have done something to earn their listing, and the few mistakes and inconvenienced innocents are an unfortunate side affect. There have been successful challenges to being placed on the list, let the system (as dysfunctional as it often is) do its job.

No what? Do you disagree that the list represents a non judicial removal of a person's rights?

Is it not true, that if they have already done something to "earn their listing" as you put it, then they probably are already banned?

There are more than just clerical errors that get a person on the list. Visiting certain countries can get a person on the list. A simple "tweet" can land you on the list.

[JamnSol 35]

So, if the one person is American, they are 0.125% (1/8th of one percent) of the American portion of the list, and a much smaller portion of the group overall.

It is unfortunate. No system is perfect. In the world of government bureaucracies, sounds like they are doing above average. I'm sure we could get any number of people to chime in with IRS nightmares, or problems getting drivers licenses, etc.

[Expat1 971]

Congressman (from Georgia I think) was on the no-fly list. Since he was flying to Washington it quickly became a constitutional issue. I don't recall if he ever found out why but it's prohibited in the constitution to prevent a sitting congressman from going to Washington to fulfill his duties and that got nasty very fast.

Ted Kennedy was also on the list. That didn't last long either.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Expat1

[Darnell 8,478]

If'n its only 800 americans on the list, why bother with legislation?

The rest of the 47,000, would they even legally qualify to purchase a firearm in the usa?

Re:Hillary... apologies, it was a fart-joke afterall, she's just blowing gas trying to shift focus off of her email problems.

[JohnR! 5,495]

That is a problem for many people whose names end up in the NF list, for all the wrong reasons. It's one of those laws that are loaded with good intentions, but only ends up creating more legislation as a result.

I knew a guy a few years back who was on the no-fly list. He had no idea why, no one will tell him why, and he had no way of finding out or challenging that decision. Likely just a name match. I'm not sure if the process has improved in recent years.

Since most people on that list haven't actually done anything wrong, I see no reason why they need to face additional restrictions like this. It's just one more dog and pony show.