K1 vs CR1+K3

[dez93_2000 2]

Hi all,

Thought I posted this yesterday but it's not here, very strange. Anyway: been reading around and would really appreciate some wise opinions.

I'm British, currently half way through a 3 year PhD in Ireland, from which I can take semi-regular work-from-america breaks up to about 6 weeks long, to see my girlfriend of 2 years in San Francisco. The PhD ends sometime between september & december 2015; I might also have to go back for the award ceremony in June/July 2016 (not 100% about this).

We're keen to get married and live together at her house in SF. We had heard that the US govt prefers people to go the K1 route, but since reading that the alien (me) is grounded for international travel while waiting on the green card (which could be a year), that sounds less appealing. What we're looking for is the best route to continue our current pattern (me coming to USA for regular <90 day holidays, her coming to see me a few times a year also), and then live together in the US, ideally with the minimal amount of time for me being grounded in the US (I have a daughter in the UK who will stay in the UK but I'll obviously want to return to visit).

I've recently read from the pinned info that it's possible to apply for a CR1 about 7 months before moving out to live permanantly, such that I'd arrive and then get the green card in the post a few days later (all going well, obviously), AND apply for a K-3 as soon as the CR1 application process has begun, such that I can travel to the US on the K3 during the CR1 processing period.

What I'm wondering with this is: is the K-3 process particularly quick then? I'm thinking if it takes 6 months then it's not really worth it!

Also: we're planning on getting married in summer 2015; would it be better to do so now (Feb 2014) such that when I go out in Jan/Feb 2016 we've already been together for 2 years and thus I avoid more admin later?

Thanks in advance. The help files here are super useful, I'm just feeling rather unsure because of the various complicating factors in my case!

Cheers

Simon

edit: reading the pins, it suggests 10.5 months for the CR1 & 11 months for the K-3. The pinned info for K-3 says:

"the US Citizen may, upon receipt of the I-130 being accepted by the USCIS, file an I-129F petition with the USCIS indicating the desire to obtain a K-3 Visa. This option has the benefit that the I-129F for a K-3 Visa will often be processed faster than the "underlying" I-130."

Does this mean: "since K-3 visas are processed faster [no longer true], you'll get to visit sooner [hence also no longer true]" or "K-3 visa processing time is reduced if an I-130 application process is underway from the same couple"?

Edited January 27, 2014 by dez93_2000

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

You wrote more than I can respond to now, but I think you basically have some things mixed up.

K1 is for in single folks. Timing varies and could swing drastically by the time you are ready to come. Don't believe any specific time given you on visas or greencards!

With K1 visa you --

enter the US

Get married

File for a greencard along with work authorization and advanced parole travel document/card.

Travel document issued in 60-90 days (a stable timeline you can expect)

Then you may leave and return using the travel doc while you await greencard.

K3 is for married folks. It is rare to get that anymore.

With K3 visa you --

enter the US

File for a greencard along with work authorization and advanced parole travel document.

Travel document issued in 60-90 days (a stable timeline you can expect)

Then you may leave and return using the travel doc while you await

CR1 is a true immigrant visa for married folks.

With CR1 visa you --

enter the US

Your passport is endorsed with an I-551 meaning you are a permantent resident the day you enter. It is a "greencard" in your passport.

In a few weeks the card type greencard will arrive.

You could turn around and leave the US the day after arrival, before the card, because your passport has been marked I-551 and that would get you back in just like the card version.

Perhaps you already understood the differences, but your post rambles and I lost the plot of what you were saying/asking.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Nich-Nick

[dez93_2000 2]

Sorry about the rambling! Cheers for the answer.

I'm wondering, if we're married & apply for a CR1, I can't enter the US until the CR1 visa is approved. The time between applying for and getting approved for a CR1 could be nearly a year, right? So in the meantime, I can't visit the states. UNLESS: I apply for a K-3 and get a travel document in 60-90 days?

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Sorry about the rambling! Cheers for the answer.

I'm wondering, if we're married & apply for a CR1, I can't enter the US until the CR1 visa is approved. The time between applying for and getting approved for a CR1 could be nearly a year, right? So in the meantime, I can't visit the states. UNLESS: I apply for a K-3 and get a travel document in 60-90 days?

You can visit the US on VWP. Nothing says a visa application prevents that. If you go too often and stay too long, the officer can turn you away if he thinks you are over-using VWP or thinks you might not leave. It is a subjective decision. Proof of studies to go back to is a good tie to home to help assure you do plan to leave.

A K3 visa is not for visiting. It is very much like a K1 except you are already married. And they rarely issue those so nothing you could count on. You still have to apply for a greencard. But a K3 does have multiple entry use, so I didn't do that correctly above when I did the copy/paste of the K1. You do not need an AP travel card if you were to actually get a K3.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Nich-Nick

[dez93_2000 2]

"You can visit the US on VWP. Nothing says a visa application prevents that."

Really?! Well that IS interesting - the impression one gets from reading the rubric on the forms is that it's not possible; I'll have to read again!

So in our case then probably the best thing would be to apply for the CR1 in sufficient time that it would be highly likely to have been approved by Feb 2016, which would be >2 years after we got married (if we get married now), and I can travel in & out of the US no problem during that time.

Am I remembering correctly that I don't want to get the green card TOO soon, as once I enter the US with green card approval, I'm then there on my green card which will be posted to me in a few weeks but this will also start the ball rolling for things like biometrics and interview dates etc, which I have to be available in the US for?

Thanks again for all the help!!

[dez93_2000 2]

That's where I saw it: on the pinned info page: http://www.visajourney.com/content/compare#ircr1

"Minuses: Separation from family may be longer than if filing for a K-3 Visa (or K-1 visa for a non-married fiance). The applicant will most likely not be able to enter the US while their IR1-CR-1 Visa is being processed."

Do you think this to be false Nich/Nick? If so I'll contact the site admins about it.

Thanks!

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Here's a thread called YES, YOU CAN VISIT. Browse it for stories http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/67796-yes-you-can-visit/

What the embassy in London says in their FAQs http://london.usembassy.gov/faq-imm-proc.html#iv038

Spouses and fiance's visit successfully all the time. Many are never questioned...just stamped through like the times you have already visited. You are advised to have a return ticket and bring proof of ties to you country in the event you were questioned further of your intent to return home. There are never any 100% guarantees anybody gets in.

If you enter on CR1, you don't do biometrics or interview. You are confusing with the K visas who adjust status. Their adjustment of status includes new applications, proofs, biometrics and interview before they get approved for a greencard. A CR1 has all that greencard stuff processed at National Visa Center before the visa is issued. That's why it takes a little longer. Very abbreviated summary of steps--

Petition approval at USCIS

Processing of Documents at NVC

Visa Interview at foreign consulate/embassy

A CR1 is a greencard holder when they get off the plane and present the CR1 visa at the immigration desk. Instant.

Two years comment--

If married 2 years, then the greencard that comes in the mail is a 10 year card.

If newly married, the greencard is valid for 2 years. It must be renewed prior to expiration. That will require biometrics, but an interview is extremely rare. But that is going to be at least two years after your initial immigration entry.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Nich-Nick

[dez93_2000 2]

Super helpful, thanks again. That's one hell of a thread, 57 pages of reading to go!!

One thing you might know offhand, if not no worries I'll keep searching: a few of the first stories on the YES YOU CAN VISIT thread say alien visitors were told they couldn't get married while over there. That was 2007, 7 years ago... do you happen to know if this is still true? My current plan is now as discussed with you above, file for CR1 so it's ready Feb 2016, get married next month (Feb 2014), visit her in the 'states 3-5 times per year for the next 2 years. But obviously I don't want to scupper my chances of being allowed to visit for the next 2 years simply to reduce the paperwork of changing from the '2 year conditional' to the '10 year' greencard when I'm there in 2016...

[dez93_2000 2]

p.s. i've emailed Ryan from the mod team about getting that note about not being able to visit the US changed, from here: http://www.visajourney.com/content/compare#ircr1 changed

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Are you seriously going to read 47 pages?

Your experience getting to visit is going to be dependent on many things. Going 5 times a year could be pushing it. Who knows what the officer will think. I called up CBP once and had a long chat. He said those less likely to be admitted are--

* Ones coming for the full 90 days. Leaving a month then coming back for another 90 days over and over. A rule of thumb is spend more time in home country. Don't appear to by trying to "live" in the US on VWP.

* Ones that are poorly dressed and look like they couldn't buy a cup of coffe, much less afford a long US holiday.

* Ones that have no job, no school, no lease or bills, no credit cards or money on them for their holiday. What responsibilities do they have compelling them to return to the UK?

* ones that look panicked like they have something they are hiding

* Ones who get their luggage randomly inspected and it looks like they are moving rather than having appropriate amount of clothing for their short holiday. Or they have resumes and job hunting paperwork with them. It's not a tourist thing to look for work.

It's profiling. Assess your chances and go for short holiday visits. A British PhD student probably looks pretty good. You have to convince that one person on the immigration desk. Totally subjective.

You can marry in the US if you go back home. The "fraud" thing so many talk about is saying you are entering as a tourist on VWP but intending to stay and never leave. The fraud is using VWP with the INTENT to immigrate. If you approached immigration and they asked "what is the purpose of your trip?"

And you said " I have come here to get married to an American and stay because that's easier than doing all that visa and immigration stuff." Well expect to be denied entry.

With that said, many people do enter on VWP, stay, and adjust status. They don't announce their intent at the airport. They "suddenly" decide later they want to marry and not leave. It's got some risks most are not willing to take so they do it the proper immigration way.

There are many, many variables in this process. Nobody can exactly plot how it is going to go for each person at the time they apply, or how long each step will take. Last year some K1s were waiting 8 months on the USCIS petition stage. Some recently have done that in less than 30 days. It changes all the time. Others are still waiting months. No matter how perfectly you plan it out, it won't go that way on timing.

[dez93_2000 2]

Dude/Dudette, you truly are a treasure trove of info! Those tips are gold. I'll pay attention not to fall foul of the luggage thing: my thinking was that it makes sense to slowly move my stuff out rather than in one big go, since I'm expecting to go there maybe 10 times before I move permanantly, but very small chunks will be the way forward it sounds - a few books, a few cds, etc..

Well, I would probably have skimmed most of the 47 pages!

Sage thinking about the perfect plan not being possible. "if you want to make god laugh, tell him your plan", as the girlfriend says.

Speaking of which, let's do some ring shopping...

Thanks again. If we're in Texas this November I'll try to sort you out a few pints!

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

http://www.visajourney.com/content/ir1cr1historical

Some graphs based on VJ timelines to show you how the time has varied to get the petition approved since Sept 2012. Different service centers work faster. Then they slow down and another gets fast. Or the slow one transfers a batch to the fast one, but those files seem to fall in a black hole and get forgotten. I've seen all the woes as well as the lucky ones. Changes all the time.

That's just the first part. Then several months at NVC. Then the embassy part. Immigration is not comfortable for a control freak.

Dudette

[dez93_2000 2]

They're fascinating those graphs, I was looking at them earlier today. Seems interesting that - set against a backdrop of chatter of people saying backlogs should be clearing and the process improved - it's gone up by 100 days since august...

Dudette: wine option also available