Triple Citizenship?

[azureskiesx3 0]

Hi , I am currently a bit confused, and would appreciate some answers to some questions. I was born in Taiwan, then as a toddler raised and obtained citizenship in Canada, at 7 moved to California where I've lived all my life, and just about a few years ago I had finally successfully gained an American Green Card. I would like to be naturalized, especially since I am a proud Cali Girl at heart, and I have much pride since I consider US my home. Although, as of now I am visiting relatives in Taiwan, and I realize that to avoid possible trouble, that I have a time-frame of 6 months. So my foremost question: is it possible to have not just DUAL but TRIPLE citizenship?

Edited June 12, 2013 by azureskiesx3

[Tygrys 143]

So my foremost question: is it possible to have not just DUAL but TRIPLE citizenship?

It sure is if all 3 countries involved allow it.

[queuedup 1]

You need to check the rules of all three countries to see if all three allow multiple citizenships.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Yes, of course.

[NickD 203]

Hi , I am currently a bit confused, and would appreciate some answers to some questions. I was born in Taiwan, then as a toddler raised and obtained citizenship in Canada, at 7 moved to California where I've lived all my life, and just about a few years ago I had finally successfully gained an American Green Card. I would like to be naturalized, especially since I am a proud Cali Girl at heart, and I have much pride since I consider US my home. Although, as of now I am visiting relatives in Taiwan, and I realize that to avoid possible trouble, that I have a time-frame of 6 months. So my foremost question: is it possible to have not just DUAL but TRIPLE citizenship?

You are not the only one confused on this issue, our Department of State deals with over 200 countries and has different agreements with each country regarding entry and exit requirements. Regardless of the fact you had no say in where you were born or the other two countries you were naturalized in.

99% sure if you were born in Taiwan, and you attempting to travel there with a US passport, your place of birth will be Taiwan in your US passport.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1036.html

According to this site, if you were born in the USA with a US passport can travel to Taiwan freely without a visa as a visitor, but doesn't seem to say what happens if your place of birth is in Taiwan. The deal is most countries consider you a citizen for life if you were born there, even though you only lived there for one minute. I would definitely contact a Taiwan consulate to find their entry and exit rules. Last place you want to learn this is after traveling there, paid for your ticket and they won't let you enter.

There is a difference also if you just want to visit as a tourist or work and own property in that country. I am wondering about a male born and living there for one minute if he will required to fulfill his military duty in that country.

With visiting Canada, almost dead sure you can visit there with your US passport with born in Taiwan in there. But if you want to buy property or work in Canada, that is when you have to show your Canadian naturalization papers.

DOS likes to say dual or triple naturalization that is totally false, you cannot obtain a passport from any country unless you are a valid citizen of that country, either born or naturalized there.

And I see their write up on Taiwan is just as nebulous as it is on Columbus regarding whether you can just visit there with your US passport if you were born in that country. You would think they would hire idiots that are least capable of being clear on this subject.

Heck, you can even run into problems contacting your home country consulate as most of them here can't even speak English, are you were versed in the Taiwan language? Heck, even ran into that problem dealing with our own USCIS where they have employees not very well versed in speaking English. Can only wonder how they passed their English test!

Not sure if confused is the correct word, frustrating is more like it, but know for sure what you have to do before you travel. You may find yourself sitting at an airport someplace before you can come back home.

[newacct 688]

Some people on here have 4 or 5 citizenships.

Edited June 13, 2013 by newacct

[Autumnal 25]

I've got three citizenships, all of which recognize one another. (UK, Canadian, US.) That means when I travel through Canada, I use my Canadian passport, I use my US passport (coming in the mail) to exit the US and re-enter, and I travel around the EU on my UK passport.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

It depends on the other countries.

I have UK and Australian. once I naturalise I'll be multi-national. Neither the UK, US, or Australia stop me from having more than 1 so i'm fine.

[Ivy. 113]

Regarding this and multiple citizenships, I have a problem with the oath.

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

The bolded parts. I know that I can omit the God reference if I do not believe (great), but I don't want to say I renounce my Croatian allegiance. It would not automatically revoke my citizenship for me, as there is paperwork included if one wishes to do that, but this statement would be false... and the idea of lying while giving an oath makes no sense to me. :/

Does one have to say that first part? Could one just promise to support/defend the US Constitution, without renouncing their other "prince, potentate, state or sovereignty"? And, if one asks these questions during the interview, will they be automatically rejected?

[newacct 688]

Regarding this and multiple citizenships, I have a problem with the oath.

The bolded parts. I know that I can omit the God reference if I do not believe (great), but I don't want to say I renounce my Croatian allegiance. It would not automatically revoke my citizenship for me, as there is paperwork included if one wishes to do that, but this statement would be false... and the idea of lying while giving an oath makes no sense to me. :/

Does one have to say that first part? Could one just promise to support/defend the US Constitution, without renouncing their other "prince, potentate, state or sovereignty"? And, if one asks these questions during the interview, will they be automatically rejected?

Yes, everybody says that part of the oath. It doesn't mean anything. I mean, what does renouncing "allegiance and fidelity" mean anyway? I know of no country that takes that to mean you are renouncing their nationality or anything like that. I and many other people have said the oath but still feel the same amount of allegiance to the other nationalities as before. I don't think you can skip it if you don't feel comfortable.

[HeatDeath 430]

I must disagree emphatically with the above post. China, Germany, Denmark and India, and many other countries, take the renunciation clause of the US citizenship oath very seriously. Upon discovering that you have taken the oath, they consider you a non-citizen retroactive to the instant you repeated those words at the oath ceremony. People are actually in jail right now in Germany for having "fraudulently" used a German passport after having thereby renounced their German citizenship. [There is a way for a German citizen to not lose their German citizenship when taking the US citizenship oath, but that's a separate issue.]

It sounds like Croatia is more like Canada - they don't take the renunciation clause seriously and consider you to still be a citizen unless you do specific denaturalization paperwork in front of a consular officer at their embassy.

When I took the oath I felt it to mean that, if there was ever a situation where I would have to choose between loyalty to Canada or loyalty to the US, I was promising to be loyal to the US. I feel attached enough to the US, and detached enough from Canada, that I can swear that sincerely. But as they say, taking US citizenship is a very important, far-reaching, intensely personal life choice, and part of that life choice is deciding if one can sincerely and honestly swear the renunciation clause, along with the rest of the oath. I would say that if you sincerely can't reconcile yourself to a reasonable interpretation of that oath, then you have no business becoming a US citizen. It's not like you're forced to, after all.

Thankfully, there is very little likelihood of America and Canada ever having seriously divergent national interests, so I don't anticipate ever having my loyalties tested to that extent. But I would be prepared to prefer the US to Canada if it came to it. If I wasn't, then I would have had no business taking the oath, in my humble opinion.

P.S. I think the likelihood of Croatia and the US ever having seriously divergent interests is pretty low too, if not quite as low as for Canada.

In specific answer to your question, the renunciation clause is absolutely NOT optional. If you tell the immigration officer at your interview you can't take that part of the oath, they will be forced to declare that you are not legally qualified to become a US citizen.

Edited June 28, 2013 by HeatDeath

[NickD 203]

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Wife also had problems with that oath, how do you explain this? Only way I could explain this, this oath is from a governmental agencie, the USCIS, but we are now finished with the USCIS and now dealing with yet another governmental agencie, the DOS.

The DOS does recognize that a natualized citizen does have family in a foreign country that a naturalized US citizen may want to visit. And with some odd 200 different countries set up agreements with each one, each country has a different agreement. While the USCIS shows the previous country you may have been natualized in, the DOS puts in your place of birth instead, to them, it is where you were born that is most important.

If your parents elected to move even when you were a month old, you were still born in that country and if you have relatives in that country, you are forced to do what they call dual or multiple naturalization in that country. Which is misleading, because they also tell you, with their agreement with that country, you must have that countries passport to visit. And they know you were born in that country, because when the DOS gives you your US passport, it states clearly you were born in that country.

Of course to get that passport, you have to be a citizen of that country, but the DOS does not like to use that word, they prefer natualization, but you were not naturalized in that country, you were born there. And more countries say if you were born there are a citizenship for wife. And in some countries, Colombia comes to mind, you just cannot apply for a US passport, you must have a citizen ID first. You say okay, where do I go, even though you have your original birth certificate, they won't accept that, want to see your birth certifcate in their records, but you can't do that yourself, only a notary, their name for an attorney must do that. And they prefer to be paid by US dollars in cash. If you don't have that, have to pay extra for that money to be transferred to you. Then they request extra money under the table to expedite getting that ID card. If you don't pay that, have to wait, like a year.

If you are back home in the USA, have to make a long trip to the nearest consulate to get that passport, they also like cash in US dollars. While they can bang out a passort with your two passport photos you gave them, plus fill out that long form, tell you to come back in two weeks to get it. But will mail it out but only with USPS, you can't give them extra cash for that, have to send them a prepaid envelop inside of another paid envelop and hope it comes in. Even though they do have an FedEx station just two floors down, can't take that elavator down even with a prepaid envelop. Because the postman goes directly into their office to hand pick it up.

Then its finally over and that passport is only good for five short years.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Regarding this and multiple citizenships, I have a problem with the oath.

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

The bolded parts. I know that I can omit the God reference if I do not believe (great), but I don't want to say I renounce my Croatian allegiance. It would not automatically revoke my citizenship for me, as there is paperwork included if one wishes to do that, but this statement would be false... and the idea of lying while giving an oath makes no sense to me. :/

Does one have to say that first part? Could one just promise to support/defend the US Constitution, without renouncing their other "prince, potentate, state or sovereignty"? And, if one asks these questions during the interview, will they be automatically rejected?

You can actually request a modification to the Oath. Here is the USCIS policy manual about it: http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartJ-Chapter3.html

Personally, I would LIKE to remove the "so help me God" part. That's a relatively simple process. You simply need to request it, you do not need to prove WHY you would like to remove the "so help me god" part, and your Oath would instead be an Affirmation.

"I hereby solemnly affirm, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion."

----

I personally take the "renounce/abjure" section to mean that while in the US or its territories, I am an American. In fact, if you went to visit your home country, entered on your home country passport and committed a crime, the US government can't usually help you because you didn't enter as a US citizen (I read an article about that happening).

Everyone takes their own meaning from it. I know that if I were made to choose I would have a hard time choosing. On the one hand my husband and future children are/would be USC's. On the other, my mum and siblings and rest of my family are in Australia. The UK is my link to my fathers birth place (Scotland). So I hope I'm never made to choose.

[Autumnal 25]

Ugh, why couldn't I see that before I swore mine? I have issue with the same part you do, VanessaTony, and I'm not too stoked about giving up the Queen as my sovereign but I could live with that. Gnar... Oh well. Does it count I sneezed during that part of the oath?

[newacct 688]

I must disagree emphatically with the above post. China, Germany, Denmark and India, and many other countries, take the renunciation clause of the US citizenship oath very seriously. Upon discovering that you have taken the oath, they consider you a non-citizen retroactive to the instant you repeated those words at the oath ceremony. People are actually in jail right now in Germany for having "fraudulently" used a German passport after having thereby renounced their German citizenship. [There is a way for a German citizen to not lose their German citizenship when taking the US citizenship oath, but that's a separate issue.]

It sounds like Croatia is more like Canada - they don't take the renunciation clause seriously and consider you to still be a citizen unless you do specific denaturalization paperwork in front of a consular officer at their embassy.

When I took the oath I felt it to mean that, if there was ever a situation where I would have to choose between loyalty to Canada or loyalty to the US, I was promising to be loyal to the US. I feel attached enough to the US, and detached enough from Canada, that I can swear that sincerely. But as they say, taking US citizenship is a very important, far-reaching, intensely personal life choice, and part of that life choice is deciding if one can sincerely and honestly swear the renunciation clause, along with the rest of the oath. I would say that if you sincerely can't reconcile yourself to a reasonable interpretation of that oath, then you have no business becoming a US citizen. It's not like you're forced to, after all.

Thankfully, there is very little likelihood of America and Canada ever having seriously divergent national interests, so I don't anticipate ever having my loyalties tested to that extent. But I would be prepared to prefer the US to Canada if it came to it. If I wasn't, then I would have had no business taking the oath, in my humble opinion.

P.S. I think the likelihood of Croatia and the US ever having seriously divergent interests is pretty low too, if not quite as low as for Canada.

In specific answer to your question, the renunciation clause is absolutely NOT optional. If you tell the immigration officer at your interview you can't take that part of the oath, they will be forced to declare that you are not legally qualified to become a US citizen.

Not true. There are many countries like China that by law say you lose their citizenship upon voluntarily applying for and acquiring another citizenship. It's the citizenship that matters. The oath is irrelevant. For those countries, if you naturalize in another country that hypothetically didn't require an oath or had an oath that didn't say "renounce allegiance and fidelity", you would still automatically lose the citizenship of the first country.

Edited June 28, 2013 by newacct