Are DHS agents forbidden to think logically?

[pfroehlich2004 0]

I have been anxiously awaiting my NOA2 as my wife and I are really hoping to be able to spend Christmas together with my family in the USA. I sent a gargantuan I-130 packet, with affidavits, proof of shared assets, visa stamps showing travel together, and photos documenting every significant event of our lives together over the last five years.

Yesterday, I received a letter from DHS, saying that more evidence is required to prove that my divorce, from a previous marriage, is actually valid. DHS notes that my divorce decree was issued in Guam and that Guam law requires at least one of the parties to an uncontested divorce to have visited Guam for at least 7 days prior to the filing of the petition of divorce. DHS is demanding that I furnish evidence that I or my ex-spouse actually fulfilled this 7-day stay requirement.

So, DHS acknowledges that the Superior Court of Guam issued a divorce decree legally dissolving my previous marriage. DHS is also aware that such a decree may only be issued if one party has stayed in Guam for 7 days prior to filing the petition. And yet they don't seem to grasp that the issuance of said decree is proof, in and of itself, that this condition was fulfilled. The only other possibility would be that the Court decided to make a special exception in my case, and simply waive the 7-day requirement because... I'm a cool guy? I bribed the judge? They forgot about their own rule?

Does DHS generally try to screw with petitioners who have been divorced? If I had gotten divorced in, say, Connecticut, would they be demanding proof that I had satisfied Connecticut's six-month residency requirement? It's difficult to believe that DHS would employ people lacking the logical capabilities of a second-grader.

[Mark + Melissa 49]

Well, I can tell you from experience, if they ask, you have to provide. Scottish divorce certificates are signed only if the issuing authority (sherriff's court) signs them. My fiance's second divorce decree wasn't signed. So we were RFE'd on signature for divorce decree. We went to go get it, and had the application denied after sending it in for the the RFE. The reason we were denied is that his previous divoce from his first wife did not have a signature either (and we only thought they were talking about the second divorce decree). Therefore, he wasn't legally divorced from his first wife to marry his second. That's the reasoning they provided when they denied our first application. It's very similar to yours. Obviously he was able to legally marry and divorce his second wife, but they don't look at that.

[Bule&Cantik 8]

Does DHS generally try to screw with petitioners who have been divorced? If I had gotten divorced in, say, Connecticut, would they be demanding proof that I had satisfied Connecticut's six-month residency requirement? It's difficult to believe that DHS would employ people lacking the logical capabilities of a second-grader.

feel for you.

just give them what they want. and stay cool when dealing with them. venting here not so bad, venting to them will screw your #### up.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

Well, I can tell you from experience, if they ask, you have to provide. Scottish divorce certificates are signed only if the issuing authority (sherriff's court) signs them. My fiance's second divorce decree wasn't signed. So we were RFE'd on signature for divorce decree. We went to go get it, and had the application denied after sending it in for the the RFE. The reason we were denied is that his previous divoce from his first wife did not have a signature either (and we only thought they were talking about the second divorce decree). Therefore, he wasn't legally divorced from his first wife to marry his second. That's the reasoning they provided when they denied our first application. It's very similar to yours. Obviously he was able to legally marry and divorce his second wife, but they don't look at that.

Being divorced or not from a first spouse doesn't affect your ability to marry a second. My ex married his second wife wife long before we divorced ( 10 years) .

[pushbrk 12,886]

I have been anxiously awaiting my NOA2 as my wife and I are really hoping to be able to spend Christmas together with my family in the USA. I sent a gargantuan I-130 packet, with affidavits, proof of shared assets, visa stamps showing travel together, and photos documenting every significant event of our lives together over the last five years.

Yesterday, I received a letter from DHS, saying that more evidence is required to prove that my divorce, from a previous marriage, is actually valid. DHS notes that my divorce decree was issued in Guam and that Guam law requires at least one of the parties to an uncontested divorce to have visited Guam for at least 7 days prior to the filing of the petition of divorce. DHS is demanding that I furnish evidence that I or my ex-spouse actually fulfilled this 7-day stay requirement.

So, DHS acknowledges that the Superior Court of Guam issued a divorce decree legally dissolving my previous marriage. DHS is also aware that such a decree may only be issued if one party has stayed in Guam for 7 days prior to filing the petition. And yet they don't seem to grasp that the issuance of said decree is proof, in and of itself, that this condition was fulfilled. The only other possibility would be that the Court decided to make a special exception in my case, and simply waive the 7-day requirement because... I'm a cool guy? I bribed the judge? They forgot about their own rule?

Does DHS generally try to screw with petitioners who have been divorced? If I had gotten divorced in, say, Connecticut, would they be demanding proof that I had satisfied Connecticut's six-month residency requirement? It's difficult to believe that DHS would employ people lacking the logical capabilities of a second-grader.

Lots of scam divorce decrees illegally issued from Guam. You'll need to comply with the request. USCIS is doing its job.

[Anh map 2,098]

I have been anxiously awaiting my NOA2 as my wife and I are really hoping to be able to spend Christmas together with my family in the USA. I sent a gargantuan I-130 packet, with affidavits, proof of shared assets, visa stamps showing travel together, and photos documenting every significant event of our lives together over the last five years.

Yesterday, I received a letter from DHS, saying that more evidence is required to prove that my divorce, from a previous marriage, is actually valid. DHS notes that my divorce decree was issued in Guam and that Guam law requires at least one of the parties to an uncontested divorce to have visited Guam for at least 7 days prior to the filing of the petition of divorce. DHS is demanding that I furnish evidence that I or my ex-spouse actually fulfilled this 7-day stay requirement.

So, DHS acknowledges that the Superior Court of Guam issued a divorce decree legally dissolving my previous marriage. DHS is also aware that such a decree may only be issued if one party has stayed in Guam for 7 days prior to filing the petition. And yet they don't seem to grasp that the issuance of said decree is proof, in and of itself, that this condition was fulfilled. The only other possibility would be that the Court decided to make a special exception in my case, and simply waive the 7-day requirement because... I'm a cool guy? I bribed the judge? They forgot about their own rule?

Does DHS generally try to screw with petitioners who have been divorced? If I had gotten divorced in, say, Connecticut, would they be demanding proof that I had satisfied Connecticut's six-month residency requirement? It's difficult to believe that DHS would employ people lacking the logical capabilities of a second-grader.

You need to supply proof that the divorce complies with the laws of Guam. That's not difficult to understand. You failed to supply the proof and have been issued a request to supply proof. Simple, send it in and the case keeps moving.

The immigration process is full of fraudsters. So the adjudicators are not going to take my word, your word, or anyone else's. They need to documentation.

No reason to cause yourself stress, just comply with the request.

If this is upsetting to you, hold on once the interview comes. HCMC is a meat grinder.

[pfroehlich2004 0]

You need to supply proof that the divorce complies with the laws of Guam. That's not difficult to understand. You failed to supply the proof and have been issued a request to supply proof. Simple, send it in and the case keeps moving.

The immigration process is full of fraudsters. So the adjudicators are not going to take my word, your word, or anyone else's. They need to documentation.

No reason to cause yourself stress, just comply with the request.

If this is upsetting to you, hold on once the interview comes. HCMC is a meat grinder.

It's not my word. It's the word of the Superior Court of Guam. If I had not complied with the conditions set forth under the laws of Guam, the court would not have issued my divorce decree.

I wouldn't expect DHS to simply accept that the copy of the judgement I sent was genuine because I said so. I would expect them to investigate its authenticity by contacting the proper authorities, as I presume they do with all supporting documents. Evidently, they acknowledge that the decree was actually issued, but suspect that I may have somehow convinced the judge to give me special treatment? This is as bizarre as demanding I provide proof that I paid my divorce attorney.

Anyway, thanks for the response. I just needed to vent a bit. I understand that DHS has a job to do, but they seem to revel in pointless annoyance of applicants, "Have you ever been involved in acts of genocide? Do you intend to carry out terrorist activities while in the US?" I'm sure you can agree that there is considerable room for improvement.

[pushbrk 12,886]

It's not my word. It's the word of the Superior Court of Guam. If I had not complied with the conditions set forth under the laws of Guam, the court would not have issued my divorce decree.

I wouldn't expect DHS to simply accept that the copy of the judgement I sent was genuine because I said so. I would expect them to investigate its authenticity by contacting the proper authorities, as I presume they do with all supporting documents. Evidently, they acknowledge that the decree was actually issued, but suspect that I may have somehow convinced the judge to give me special treatment? This is as bizarre as demanding I provide proof that I paid my divorce attorney.

Anyway, thanks for the response. I just needed to vent a bit. I understand that DHS has a job to do, but they seem to revel in pointless annoyance of applicants, "Have you ever been involved in acts of genocide? Do you intend to carry out terrorist activities while in the US?" I'm sure you can agree that there is considerable room for improvement.

You presume incorrectly. It is your responsibility to provide documentation as requested. No reason for you to have anticipated the need to provide more than a certified copy of the divorce decree but now you have no choice but to comply with their request. If complaining about it helps you in some way, well that's what you're doing.

The answers to the questions that seem strange are sometimes used as grounds for deportation when the applicant engages in things they said they didn't intend to engage in etc. Time to simply answer and comply, then get on with happily ever after.

[pfroehlich2004 0]

I assume the answer is no, but no harm in asking.

In my I-130 packet, as required, I included a copy of the divorce decree dissolving my previous marriage. DHS responded with an RFE, demanding that I prove I fulfilled the minimum time of residence required in the jurisdiction where my divorce was granted. In my case, this was the US Territory of Guam, which requires a minimum stay of 7 days from at least one party to the divorce.

Now, I have copies of my flight itinerary which shows that I arrived in Guam and departed precisely 7 days later as well as a letter from my hotel, confirming that I stayed there for six nights. Furthermore, I have an original, officially stamped interlocutory judgement of divorce from the Superior Court of Guam, in which it is stated: "The Court finds that it has acquired jurisdiction over this matter and finds that the defendant has been a resident of Guam for at least 7 days."

Given that the court has ruled that I fulfilled all the statutory requirements for filing a divorce petition, does DHS have any authority to declare the court's decision invalid? If not, what recourse would I have were DHS to exceed its legal authority?

[Bule&Cantik 8]

I assume the answer is no, but no harm in asking.

In my I-130 packet, as required, I included a copy of the divorce decree dissolving my previous marriage. DHS responded with an RFE, demanding that I prove I fulfilled the minimum time of residence required in the jurisdiction where my divorce was granted. In my case, this was the US Territory of Guam, which requires a minimum stay of 7 days from at least one party to the divorce.

Now, I have copies of my flight itinerary which shows that I arrived in Guam and departed precisely 7 days later as well as a letter from my hotel, confirming that I stayed there for six nights. Furthermore, I have an original, officially stamped interlocutory judgement of divorce from the Superior Court of Guam, in which it is stated: "The Court finds that it has acquired jurisdiction over this matter and finds that the defendant has been a resident of Guam for at least 7 days."

Given that the court has ruled that I fulfilled all the statutory requirements for filing a divorce petition, does DHS have any authority to declare the court's decision invalid? If not, what recourse would I have were DHS to exceed its legal authority?

Your answer here in your previous post I think

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/374531-are-dhs-agents-forbidden-to-think-logically/page__p__5477672__fromsearch__1#entry5477672

You can either comply with them or not. DHS not saying a court decision is invalid. DHS saying send us this proof that is required.

If you have the info. Send it.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Bule&Cantik

[pfroehlich2004 0]

Your answer here in your previous post I think

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/374531-are-dhs-agents-forbidden-to-think-logically/page__p__5477672__fromsearch__1#entry5477672

You can either comply with them or not. DHS not saying a court decision is invalid. DHS saying send us this proof that is required.

If you have the info. Send it.

I didn't ask this question in my previous post, nor did anyone answer it. If you read the question carefully, you'll notice that I did not ask whether I should comply with the RFE. Rather, I asked very specifically about the scope of DHS's authority to accept or reject a divorce decree issued by a US court, i.e. once I have supplied DHS with the requested evidence, which the Superior Court of Guam determined was sufficient to satisfy the legal requirements for a divorce in that jurisdiction, can DHS then unilaterally decide that the court's ruling was incorrect and therefore invalid?

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

** Merged two threads on same issue. Please only start one thread per issue/ question; if you have extra info or follow-on questions, post these as a reply to the original post. ****

[rade2rising 205]

seems pretty straightfoward. provide the info that you were there for 7 days and move on.

For some reason you seem abit worried about satisfying this criteria. Did you stay 7 days or 6 days?

According to you what you are saying you stayed exactly 7 days and on the 7th day went to court got the decree then boarded a flight immediately??

Seems you were there for the main purpose of expediting the divorce which is fine but its also ok for them to ask for this proof.

if you are in the right just send the info already. if you are not then you have a problem.

[pushbrk 12,886]

I assume the answer is no, but no harm in asking.

In my I-130 packet, as required, I included a copy of the divorce decree dissolving my previous marriage. DHS responded with an RFE, demanding that I prove I fulfilled the minimum time of residence required in the jurisdiction where my divorce was granted. In my case, this was the US Territory of Guam, which requires a minimum stay of 7 days from at least one party to the divorce.

Now, I have copies of my flight itinerary which shows that I arrived in Guam and departed precisely 7 days later as well as a letter from my hotel, confirming that I stayed there for six nights. Furthermore, I have an original, officially stamped interlocutory judgement of divorce from the Superior Court of Guam, in which it is stated: "The Court finds that it has acquired jurisdiction over this matter and finds that the defendant has been a resident of Guam for at least 7 days."

Given that the court has ruled that I fulfilled all the statutory requirements for filing a divorce petition, does DHS have any authority to declare the court's decision invalid? If not, what recourse would I have were DHS to exceed its legal authority?

If you have any additional evidence, that would be good too. I doubt a US Citizen would get a passport stamp entering or exiting Guam but if you do have that, it's stronger evidence.

No, DHS through USCIS does not have authority to declare the court's decision invalid, but they do have the right not to recognize your divorce for immigration purposes and deny your petition, if you fail to comply adequately with their request. Yes, you have the right to appeal but you don not want to endure the associated delay.

[pushbrk 12,886]

If you have any additional evidence, that would be good too. I doubt a US Citizen would get a passport stamp entering or exiting Guam but if you do have that, it's stronger evidence.

No, DHS through USCIS does not have authority to declare the court's decision invalid, but they do have the right not to recognize your divorce for immigration purposes and deny your petition, if you fail to comply adequately with their request. Yes, you have the right to appeal but you don not want to endure the associated delay.

Been thinking about your itinerary. Don't be surprised if USCIS counts the hours between when you landed and the divorce decree was granted and if that's different from how many hours you were actually there, they'll count those too. Do they both add up to 7 X 24?