A Nightmare from Kyiv

[Katiedog 6]

I am missing my beloved fiance from Kharkiv Ukraine who by now in February should have been here in Texas with me and we would have been married in January. But, something has gone wrong and we have no idea what it is nor does our attorney who is Board Certified in Immigration Law, a member of AILA and writes in their legal newsletter. His credentials are exceptional and impeccible.

In late April I filed our K1 Visa petition for my fiance in Kharkiv to come to the US and we would be wed. Things progressed fairly normal and quick by the standard we normally see with these petitions and accordingly we were given the NOA2 on September 20, 2011. We never received any notifications of problems, questions, or additional documents needed through an RFE.

Our attorney did a very thorough and complete package with our help an it was very easy to follow and understand even for a layman like me. Ample and even additional proof of the relationship (I made four trips to see her and meet her family, taking my 11 year old son on one of them). Pictures, tickets, receipts, even notarized statements from my son and daughter to the Consul about Marina and my relationship and intention to marry soon after her arrival.

My home is free and clear of debt, my income exceeds the required amount, I have no Adam Walsh Act crimes in my background or crimes of moral turpitude. All birth certficates, employment, tax returns, receipts, biographical information, prior marriage records, etc. was thorough and complete, easy to understand and interpret. All documentation was notarized, witnessed or certified by the appropriate authority and all translations were complete. Marina and I talk on SKYPE twice a day usually for an hour at a time and have done so since August 2010. There was proof of this as well.

Her interview was scheduled for November 16, 2010, so we were very excited and of course nervous. We expected no problems since in reality there was nothing we could imagine (nor the lawyers) a reason for delay or denial.

Marina prepared for the interview, she knows me like a book and all my history, past and present. We went through everything many times and rehearsed it. She speaks at least intermediate English as well, having learned it entirely since we met in June 2010.

She went to the interview on time and had a very short and brief interview. Later she said it was not even an interview. The officer was very pleasant, said Marina should return home and everything was fine. The Officer said that the package was thorough enough it would take some time to read and review so she issued Marina a pink form with the hand written notice "additional processing". They took her Ukraine Passport and also took her information for a delivery address for the Visa. Little did we know or realize what situation we had just been place in either by a quota, by incompetance, a misunderstanding, apathy and laziness to conduct a proper interview and check the petition or some unknown flaw or "red flag" about us or our petition.

Since that time it has been really hell for us. We had planned on spending the holidays together with my family and getting married soon after her arrival. I would initiate the process to get her the SS card, green card, etc. I would start the process to bring her daughter (14 years old) to the USA this year as her stepfather on a petition. Of course the absence of a loved one for so long is not without its own pain as well. But our relationship is strong and the love is genuine. We realize it is not us, it is them, the Consul in Kyiv, doing this.

Numerous calls by me at timed and normal inquiry intervals, calls by her on the PIN number, an inquiry by our attorneys three separate times and an inquiry from my Congressman's office have all resulted in nothing. She did receive a phone call from the Embassy a couple of weeks ago asking some questions about me and our relationship. The caller was a Ukraine national employed by the Embassy. NO ONE is allowed to speak with a person of authority or power who is American. Even I have to purchase an 8 minute PIN for $12.00 to call my own American Embassy to ask about my own American K1 Visa petition and I get to speak with a Ukraine clerk who is either friendly and attempts to help, but really knows nothing OR I get to speak with a Ukrainian clerk who spends about 4 or 5 minutes asking me my name and information over and over again. The last time I had that happen and they never asked me for the CASE number! He just said all these "administrative processing" is handled somewhere else and maybe sent to the USA.

I know that is incorrect because the month before I got to speak with a very courteous and nice Ukraine clerk who had no information about our case, but made another call to find out where it was and its current status (was told it is still in administrative processing). So I know this guy just did not want to help me or talk with me even to tell me the same thing.

Having lived in America all my life, I have been truly struck dumb by this action and behaviour on the part of a branch of the United States Government towards me. I have no rights in this, I have no rights to ask or question, I am not even entitled to the respect given to a doorman at a cheap hotel by my own fellow Americans with this all mighty "God like" power over my life. And I pay for all of it. It just does not seem right, it does not seem American. I know it is not right and it is not moral even though it is legal. It is bureaucratic protocol with a blind eye to common sense, courtesy and decency.

I truly have never been treated so harshly by my own government in my life. I get better treatment traveling in other countries as a foreigner. Certainly it is even easier for me to enter them than the USA as a citizen.

This has been a very long post, but I wanted to share the complete situation with forum members to ask for any input about my situation. I am not looking for sympathy, I do not consider our situation to be special,unique deserving special treatment. I never asked for this process we are under going to be waived. I did ask for the process to be finalized more expeditiously and offered to provide anything necessary to implement that happening. I have not let my temper reflect in my inquiries to the Embassy even though I have gotten very angry at all of the absurdity of it. All inquiries all have been professional, not repetitous/often and have been courteous despite the terse, abrupt and empty responses I get from them. I wish no one any ill will, I just want my fiance to be here with me so that we can begin our life together and make our future together with our kids. Everyone of us feels the pain of this and none of us have any explanations or reasons why it exists.

Since I have never read about anyone having a similar experience on this forum, especially from Kyiv, I thought perhaps my post might bring forth some information to the subject and possible solutions, possible outcome, etc. I thank you all for your responses in advance.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Katiedog

[turveydrop 4]

Wow. Good luck. Have you contacted your senators?

[Moomin 292]

Instead of calling embassy, try calling DoS ( http://travel.state.gov/visa/about/how/how_1463.html ) and inquire about your case. They know about the same as the embassy at this point.

There are plenty of people with much more knowledge about AP and country specific useful info than I so I'll keep my fingers crossed you'll get response from them. Sorry about your situation!

[hnubno 9]

all you really can do is wait since you are under AP. we were put on AP too and i called the embassy and was told to email them. i emailed them and they said that we were under AP and when they were done they'd give us a decision. that's all we got too...so we waited and finally receive our visa after he was interviewed twice and i was phone interviewed three times.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

You are in Administrative Processing, the details of which are classified.

[baron555 934]

Did you ever email the Embassy in Kiev and inquire that way?

Phone calls are usually not helpful and emails always get the correct attention.

I've asked the Mods to move this to the RUB regional forum since you are inquiring about country/Embassy specific information.

Again.... emails almost always get you the information and you have no "right" to immigration for a foreign spouse. Get off that high horse and don't worry, if all is fine all will be fine.

Edited February 2, 2012 by baron555

[belinda63 3,033]

Suggest you call DOS, they can at least tell you if the case is in AP or being processed at the embassy. Yes it is a black hole but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Thank our screwed up system and DHS for all the problems. Once again I remind everyone the supposed 9/11 terrorist arrived by tourist/student visas not immigrant visas.

[pddp 240]

OP, you have every right to be upset and I personally applaud you for speaking out. People here are quick to point out how so many have gone through the same as you, or worse, how you have no "right" to immigration of a foreign spouse, how all of us here just have to bide our time, no matter what happens (or not) with our case.

I understand and agree that patience is a virtue and will help you remain sane during the process. But having said that, it's also hard to ignore how unfair, non-transparent and blatantly discriminating the system is. This is accepted, and people willingly give up their rights in the name of "national security". THAT is the American way.

Change only happens when more and more people recognize what's going on, and start talking about it. Not trying to stage a revolution here, but come on people, when you get treated badly, do you tell yourself "I deserve it"?

In my book everyone here contributes to international understanding and a better future for our planet by their involvement with people of a different nationality. We cannot agree that we should be unduly punished for this, right?!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You are in Administrative Processing, the details of which are classified.

This is more or less true. There is quite likely some issue neither you, your fiancee or attorney are aware of. This is not normal and does not "just happen" We saw a similar case here recently in Russia and again there was no explanation anyone could fathom. That petition was eventually denied and the couple re-applied got approved and got a visa. At that time they asked the consulate "What the hell happened" and it turns out that the ex wife of the foreign fiancee is this case was applying also for a K-1 at exactly the same time! Neither of them knew there ex's were doing this and it seemed overly suspicious to the consulate. Who could know? "there are more things in heaven and earth..."

Actually you should be able to talk to an American there by calling the visa section direct. However if it is in AP they will not give you details of it and there is no one that can intercede. They will eventually come to a conclusion and then you can proceed.

Unfortunately, until then, there is nothing much to do but wait patiently

[Katiedog 6]

Did you ever email the Embassy in Kiev and inquire that way?

Phone calls are usually not helpful and emails always get the correct attention.

I've asked the Mods to move this to the RUB regional forum since you are inquiring about country/Embassy specific information.

Again.... emails almost always get you the information and you have no "right" to immigration for a foreign spouse. Get off that high horse and don't worry, if all is fine all will be fine.

Numerous emails have been sent by myself along with phone calls. Several emails from my attorney have been sent and phone calls made. My Congressional office made official inquiry through the special email system between The Department of State and individual Congressmen. The answers are all terse, blunt, uninformative and impersonal to me. The Congressman got a much better response with more courtesy, offering "any further assistance he needed". Of course what the Congressman wanted was information and answers, but they did not give those even though they offer to "be of assistance further".

The "High Horse" here is the system that implements this protocol all too easily and each Consul Officer is cautioned in the guidelines given to them on how to conduct the investigations and interviews. The Official Guidelines state "221g is to be invoked with great caution and to be used only sparingly". It's an abuse of power and not of any "vetting" benefit in many cases.

I don't think you understand the tone of my original posting. It is like knowing you made a 90 or 100 grade on an exam. Your professor will not tell you if you passed or failed, much less when they will share the information. It is subjective discrimination power in the hands of people who may not be mature enough or trained enough to handle it. I was a banker for 30 years in commercial lending. I saw it all the time with people who came into authority and power without the maturity or knowledge to use is properly or as was intended.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Katiedog

[Katiedog 6]

This is more or less true. There is quite likely some issue neither you, your fiancee or attorney are aware of. This is not normal and does not "just happen" We saw a similar case here recently in Russia and again there was no explanation anyone could fathom. That petition was eventually denied and the couple re-applied got approved and got a visa. At that time they asked the consulate "What the hell happened" and it turns out that the ex wife of the foreign fiancee is this case was applying also for a K-1 at exactly the same time! Neither of them knew there ex's were doing this and it seemed overly suspicious to the consulate. Who could know? "there are more things in heaven and earth..."

Actually you should be able to talk to an American there by calling the visa section direct. However if it is in AP they will not give you details of it and there is no one that can intercede. They will eventually come to a conclusion and then you can proceed.

Unfortunately, until then, there is nothing much to do but wait patiently

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I get the point about the situation you used for illustration. That does not change the fact that the truth and clear facts could have been cleared up in the time frame of the original petition had anyone involved at the Consulate level handled the matter with common sense and contacted or interviewed the two people affected instead of following some false "rabbit trail" that messed everything up needlessly. That possibility is the great fear in my situation at the present time. Unfounded fantasies that the Consulate Officer does not take the time or proper clear cut methods to resolve due to "protocol", apathy, or personal prejudice.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Katiedog

[Waves 1]

OP, you have every right to be upset and I personally applaud you for speaking out. People here are quick to point out how so many have gone through the same as you, or worse, how you have no "right" to immigration of a foreign spouse, how all of us here just have to bide our time, no matter what happens (or not) with our case.

I understand and agree that patience is a virtue and will help you remain sane during the process. But having said that, it's also hard to ignore how unfair, non-transparent and blatantly discriminating the system is. This is accepted, and people willingly give up their rights in the name of "national security". THAT is the American way.

Change only happens when more and more people recognize what's going on, and start talking about it. Not trying to stage a revolution here, but come on people, when you get treated badly, do you tell yourself "I deserve it"?

In my book everyone here contributes to international understanding and a better future for our planet by their involvement with people of a different nationality. We cannot agree that we should be unduly punished for this, right?!

What an empowering reply. Love it! I hope the OP gets his AP all sorted out soon.

[spectec 12]

The officials words "the package was thorough enough it would take some time to read" are very contradictory to me. If it's thorough enough then what is there to read? I can't even imagine your feelings and with my fiancées interview coming it's giving a bit of an uneasiness feeling to me. It doesn't seem its anything to do with your evidence to me but maybe her name came up as common with someone else in one of the data bases they look at and just needs to be investigated and cleared. I'm no expert but just giving my opinion. A few questions I do have is you mentioned they took her Ukraine passport. Did they take her international passport also? Did they ask her for her Ukraine passport specifically? Usually you don't even need to show the Ukraine passport from what I have read. Was she previously married? I pray it all works out for you.

Edited February 2, 2012 by spectec

[baron555 934]

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I get the point about the situation you used for illustration. That does not change the fact that the truth and clear facts could have been cleared up in the time frame of the original petition had anyone involved at the Consulate level handled the matter with common sense and contacted or interviewed the two people affected instead of following some false "rabbit trail" that messed everything up needlessly. That possibility is the great fear in my situation at the present time. Unfounded fantasies that the Consulate Officer does not take the time or proper clear cut methods to resolve due to "protocol", apathy, or personal prejudice.

So, what about both of your pasts? Any dirt there to disclose?.....similar to the case that Gary and Alla refers to?

[baron555 934]

The officials words "the package was thorough enough it would take some time to read" are very contradictory to me. If it's thorough enough then what is there to read? I can't even imagine your feelings and with my fiancées interview coming it's giving a bit of an uneasiness feeling to me. It doesn't seem its anything to do with your evidence to me but maybe her name came up as common with someone else in one of the data bases they look at and just needs to be investigated and cleared. I'm no expert but just giving my opinion. A few questions I do have is you mentioned they took her Ukraine passport. Did they take her international passport also? Did they ask her for her Ukraine passport specifically? Usually you don't even need to show the Ukraine passport from what I have read. Was she previously married? I pray it all works out for you.

Please disclose the answers to these questions for us to help you further? The Kiev Embassy is an easy Embassy....for them to place you into "AP Hell", then they, who are very professionally trained, more than you and your lawyer have been, means that they have seen something in your case that raises their eyebrows and warrants them to use this "power" that your elected Congressional regulations have bestowed upon them to use as their discretion towards you. Nothing personal but they are doing the job that they and you have trained them to do. Period