Selective Service Refused

[Alpha1978 0]

I am asking this question for my neighbor. He has been a permanent resident since he was 17 years old. He is originally from Guatemala and he came in the US on asylum. He is in his early forties now. He has been a person of "good moral character" all these years and beside one DWI in 1993, his record is spotless (no other arrests, completed probation, stopped drinking since then). His original N400 was denied back in 1997 because of that DWI and his costly lawyer has told him that he can't acquire citizenship at all because of it. I have looked into it and the lawyer was wrong. So that part is okay.

The issue is following:

Back in the days when he received his Selective Service letter - he refused to register. He was young and thought it was optional (didn't think it would affect him in any way).

Considering that he had left his country because of war - I can't really blame him that he wasn't willing to get in another one.

Is he still eligible for citizenship despite his refusal?? He has been a permanent tax paying resident for over 20 years now.

[Tim/Mav 305]

To my knowledge the Selective Service was and still is a requirement and there is no excuse for failure to not register. Therefore a breach of Immigration and the US Goverment. Draw your own Conclusuions.

I did it, your sons did it. Enjoy the US and not willing to defend it ? Well, thats odd. I don't care if he handed out free Girlscout Cookies.

[Alpha1978 0]

Hey, don't kill the messenger here!

Anyway, he would be willing now but we are talking about 17-18 year old who just got here without anyone and limited English knowledge. That was over twenty years ago.

[JeroenAndMichelle 28]

He has been a person of "good moral character" all these years

...

when he received his Selective Service letter - he refused to register

Sadly to the USCIS this makes him not of a good moral character.

I know a guy who completely forgot about something that happened once in his life, they found out about it and denied his citizenship as well. They saw it as lying and that meant he was not of good moral character while, the way how he told me, it seemed to have been a honest mistake. Pretty messed up but that's how strict they can be

[NickD 202]

Uncle Sam started selective service July 2, 1980, an after thought when we switched to an all volunteer military with decent pay. In 32 years, not one person was drafted under this act, yet the USCIS takes this way overboard as a major crime if you don't register for it. I got stuck under the draft with six years of my young life taken away, made a killing machine out of me, pay was low, living conditions terrible, food wasn't that good either. And was worth more dead than alive with my mom only getting $10,000 if I was killed, ha, had to watch my back. But did completely change my life.

Three sons, all born in the USA received those postcards, we know you exists and where you are at, if you do not sign and return this postcard, we will give you a $10,000.00 fine. Two of my sons were rejected from enlistment, wanted to take after their dad. One did have some major health problems, we don't want you. Younger one had a record of asthma as a kid. They wouldn't take him either because of that. Told him, we didn't have all that fancy exercise equipment, but got into shape by running 25 miles with a backpack full of 65 pounds full of rocks. He ran 15 miles a day all summer long doing that, was still rejected, he was very disappointed. Also an honor roll student.

Ironically, he did get a job with one of Bush's military contractors, he still wouldn't give me the details, but said it was so immoral, he couldn't do that, so quit after just two months. Really got disgusted and left the country and has been teaching young Japanese kids English in Japan. He still doesn't want to come back home. And still won't tell me what happened in those two months working for that contractor.

But yet the USCIS makes a big deal out of this, and in 32 years, not one person was called to serve in our military, really sounds like a very strong contradiction. Besides that, our military is so technical today, takes at least two years to train a kid.

Our history with the USCIS, is even with the best immigration attorney, worthless, even admitted, best to have a brother-in-law in a high position to get anything done. Recommended I become buddy buddy with my US senator to get anything done. Could be worth a try. Yeah, our law says at 18, you are a mature adult, another bad joke.

[Alpha1978 0]

Interesting...

Well, what gets me is the fact that they have started the whole thingy so the draft will be as fair as possible in case there is really a need for it; to me, if there are severe consequences associated with it already - it is no different than forcing the weapon in their hands when the war DOES break out. They are trying to make it voluntary but it is really not; It feels like people are still bullied into it. Just MHO.

So, you guys think that he doesn't have a chance at citizenship at all?? Would contacting a congressman help?

Uncle Sam started selective service July 2, 1980, an after thought when we switched to an all volunteer military with decent pay. In 32 years, not one person was drafted under this act, yet the USCIS takes this way overboard as a major crime if you don't register for it. I got stuck under the draft with six years of my young life taken away, made a killing machine out of me, pay was low, living conditions terrible, food wasn't that good either. And was worth more dead than alive with my mom only getting $10,000 if I was killed, ha, had to watch my back. But did completely change my life.

Three sons, all born in the USA received those postcards, we know you exists and where you are at, if you do not sign and return this postcard, we will give you a $10,000.00 fine. Two of my sons were rejected from enlistment, wanted to take after their dad. One did have some major health problems, we don't want you. Younger one had a record of asthma as a kid. They wouldn't take him either because of that. Told him, we didn't have all that fancy exercise equipment, but got into shape by running 25 miles with a backpack full of 65 pounds full of rocks. He ran 15 miles a day all summer long doing that, was still rejected, he was very disappointed. Also an honor roll student.

Ironically, he did get a job with one of Bush's military contractors, he still wouldn't give me the details, but said it was so immoral, he couldn't do that, so quit after just two months. Really got disgusted and left the country and has been teaching young Japanese kids English in Japan. He still doesn't want to come back home. And still won't tell me what happened in those two months working for that contractor.

But yet the USCIS makes a big deal out of this, and in 32 years, not one person was called to serve in our military, really sounds like a very strong contradiction. Besides that, our military is so technical today, takes at least two years to train a kid.

Our history with the USCIS, is even with the best immigration attorney, worthless, even admitted, best to have a brother-in-law in a high position to get anything done. Recommended I become buddy buddy with my US senator to get anything done. Could be worth a try. Yeah, our law says at 18, you are a mature adult, another bad joke.

[Darnell 8,478]

I think he doesn't have a chance. Sorry.

[mari&Ryan 93]

You may want to read those docs:

Appendix 72-15 Effect of Failure to Register for Selective Service on Eligibility for Naturalization

Appendix 74-7 Corrections to A Guide to Naturalization and the Effect of Failure to Register for Selective Service on Naturalization Eligibility

Edited January 21, 2012 by mari&Ryan

[Brogeo 1]

Of particular note to your friend would be this paragraph from that document:

Failure to register for Selective Service will generally not prevent a man who was over 31 years of age on the day he filed his naturalization application from demonstrating that he is eligible for naturalization. Even if the applicant was required to register and the applicant’s failure to register was knowing and willful, the failure occurred outside of the statutory period during which the applicant is required to establish his attachment to the good order and happiness of the United States. The INS ma y, of course, consider a person's conduct before the beginning of this period. INA § 101(f) (last sentence) and § 316(e). If the INS denies naturalization to a man who is at least 31, based on his failure to register with Selective Service, the decision must state explicitly the basis for finding that the failure to register warrants denial of naturalization. As a practical matter, a male applicant over 31 years of age who failed to register with Selective Service should, ordinarily, be found eligible for naturalization unless INS has other evidence, in addition to the past failure to register, that demonstrates that the applicant is not well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States.

Its not clear to me though whether the 'time of application' would be now or in 1997 when he filed first.

[Alpha1978 0]

Well, from what his lawyer told him is that his first N400 back in 1997 was denied because he had that 1 DWI in 1993, not because of SS. It was too soon after DWI plus the law changed in 2004 saying that 1 DWI does not mean "bad moral character'.

But I am curious about that one too...

To me it was not exactly "knowingly and willfully" if he did not understand the full concept of it.

Of particular note to your friend would be this paragraph from that document:

Its not clear to me though whether the 'time of application' would be now or in 1997 when he filed first.

[NickD 202]

You may want to read those docs:

Appendix 72-15 Effect of Failure to Register for Selective Service on Eligibility for Naturalization

Appendix 74-7 Corrections to A Guide to Naturalization and the Effect of Failure to Register for Selective Service on Naturalization Eligibility

Written by the USCIS, yest they take failure to register very seriously and really no reason not to. If you don't want to serve if called, just go to Harvard, like Quayle, Clinton, kid Bush, and Obama did. Actually the three latter did serve, as commander in chief of the armed services, very safely behind closed doors.

[DaveE 178]

Written by the USCIS, yest they take failure to register very seriously and really no reason not to. If you don't want to serve if called, just go to Harvard, like Quayle, Clinton, kid Bush, and Obama did. Actually the three latter did serve, as commander in chief of the armed services, very safely behind closed doors.

So, you're saying GWB did not serve flying F-102s for the Texas Air National Guard?

[Boiler 45,411]

Serve should be in quotation marks.

He is over 31 now so SS is immaterial.

[Cautious 7]

Written by the USCIS, yest they take failure to register very seriously and really no reason not to. If you don't want to serve if called, just go to Harvard, like Quayle, Clinton, kid Bush, and Obama did. Actually the three latter did serve, as commander in chief of the armed services, very safely behind closed doors.

Obama was born in 1960 so he was about 14 when the vietnam war ended in 1975. I may be wrong but I think that he was too young for the draft. He didn't get to Harvard until years later. Bush did serve in the Texas Natl guards as far as available official records state. I don't support either guy just the "facts"...