Cert of Legal Capacity to Marry Not Accepted?

[Cathay Pacific 0]

Hello, first time poster here, frequent reader...

Just got back from the US Embassy in Manila, where I obtained a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Marry, to get married here in the Philippines.

While submitting my application, I was asked by the person at the window where my fiancee was from, because as of last week, the cities of Quezon City and Makati are no longer accepting a Certificate of Legal Capacity to Marry from the US Embassy.

Unfortunately, my fiancee is from Quezon City.

While I was waiting for my follow-up turn at the window, I overheard others who came before me for this certificate being told the same thing, and they kept asking each person if they really wanted to spend $50, because the certificate might not be good if their fiancee was from one of those two cities.

Is there a high rate of marriage fraud in Quezon City and Makati? It seems odd that this rule change would not be for the entire country.

I was also told that the embassy has no information about the new requirements for marriage, nor whether moving to a city other than Quezon City or Makati would allow us to marry using only the embassy certificate. The person at the window had no idea what the minimum length of stay would be after moving to establish a new "usual place of residence" in another city.

How long do we need to live in another city before my fiancee is no longer considered a resident of Quezon City? After moving, do we simply obtain a proof of residence from the rental office, or are there other requirements?

Fortunately we have time to wait in a new city of residence if necessary, but we were really hoping to set an early December wedding, so as to not get married too close to Christmas.

Has anyone else heard any details about the new requirements for Quezon City or Makati, or if this rule change was made only in those two cities?

[Cathay Pacific 0]

Just found this notice on the US Embassy web site:

"In late 2011, the U.S. Embassy learned that the following local registrars had refused to accept the Affidavit In Lieu of Certificate of Legal Capacity to Marry as a viable alternative to the Philippine document: Makati City, Quezon City, Davao City."

Getting Married in the Philippines

Anyone know what the "Philippine document" is, and how it is obtained? Hopefully that doesn't involve one of the Philippine Embassy offices in the United States?

This is all a bit of a surprise - perhaps we should look into getting married on a cruise ship?

Edited November 22, 2011 by Cathay Pacific

[Tahoma 2,292]

I was also told that the embassy has no information about the new requirements for marriage...

Your post is the first I've seen regarding that issue. You might want to check with the officials in Quezon City to find out the new rules. Maybe they simply don't require that form any more. It's interesting that the U.S. Embassy couldn't shed any light on the issue. Please keep us posted if you find out anything.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

The Philippine Document is a CENOMAR which is obtained from the NSO but as a US Citizen you can't get that.

[Cathay Pacific 0]

The Philippine Document is a CENOMAR which is obtained from the NSO but as a US Citizen you can't get that.

My fiancee has a CENOMAR, a certified birth certificate, and a passport.

I agree that it appears I can't obtain a CENOMAR for myself - I only have the certificate from the US Embassy.

The US Emabassy person said there is no central database that tracks the marital status of US citizens, so they were just as puzzled as I was that the embassy certificate was no longer accepted in those cities, since it was unclear what other documentation could be provided.

How would I go about proving a negative (that I am not married) to an official in the Philippines?

We're going to the city hall in the morning, so I'll report back if we find out any more details, but I figured I would post here on VJ in case anyone already knew what was going on in any of those cities.

[TeapotGirl 66]

Is there a high rate of marriage fraud in Quezon City and Makati? It seems odd that this rule change would not be for the entire country.

We have CENOMAR now so I assume that the fraud has dramatically lessened if not wiped out. My father married to 4 different women from mid 80's to mid 90's without annulling the first marriage.

How long do we need to live in another city before my fiancee is no longer considered a resident of Quezon City? After moving, do we simply obtain a proof of residence from the rental office, or are there other requirements?

There is no such specific length of time to stay in one place to be considered as resident. If you could provide a billing statement that you live in a specific address or can vote in that area then you are considered as a resident.

Did they say it's no longer needed or a divorce decree is fine?

Edited November 22, 2011 by teapotgurl1983

[Zen Den 18]

My fiancee has a CENOMAR, a certified birth certificate, and a passport.

I agree that it appears I can't obtain a CENOMAR for myself - I only have the certificate from the US Embassy.

The US Emabassy person said there is no central database that tracks the marital status of US citizens, so they were just as puzzled as I was that the embassy certificate was no longer accepted in those cities, since it was unclear what other documentation could be provided.

How would I go about proving a negative (that I am not married) to an official in the Philippines?

We're going to the city hall in the morning, so I'll report back if we find out any more details, but I figured I would post here on VJ in case anyone already knew what was going on in any of those cities.

if you say you have time, then have somebody in your family (or do the call yourself) request that for you. it takes less than a week to mail to your US address and then you can have that sent to you express.

or, in the philippines you can marry anywhere you want, it doesn't matter where you live. so you can submit your reqs in another city where the cert is sufficient.

a simple affidavit stating the "negative" will not be accepted if it's not in a list of alternative acceptable docs

[Cathay Pacific 0]

We have CENOMAR now so I assume that the fraud has dramatically lessened if not wiped out. My father married to 4 different women from mid 80's to mid 90's without annulling the first marriage.

There is no such specific length of time to stay in one place to be considered as resident. If you could provide a billing statement that you live in a specific address or can vote in that area then you are considered as a resident.

Did they say it's no longer needed or a divorce decree is fine?

Thanks for your reply.

The US embassy person (and their website) only say that the embassy certificate is no longer accepted - and suggest that some other "Philippine document" is required.

While my fiancee has a CENOMAR, as a US citizen, I cannot obtain that document. The US has no equivalent.

I happen to be divorced, and I did bring certified copies of my divorce decree (I even had the decree "exemplified", which required both the judge and the clerk to sign the document), but an official from the Philippines is unlikely to be familiar with a state-level legal document and how to validate it. (Perhaps they would want the Philippine Embassy in the United States to perform that task?)

Also, anyone is free to re-marry immediately after a divorce is final, so even if a divorce decree was validated to their satisfaction, it seems I would still have to prove I have not re-married since the date of my divorce.

The whole point of the US embassy certificate - obtained after the embassy personnel have examined my documentation, and taken my oath under penalty of perjury - is to indicate that I am free to marry, so I'm puzzled why it's no longer accepted.

Perhaps it would be better to avoid a potential rejection of our license application, and for my fiancee to instead establish residence in another city?

You mentioned a billing statement and registering to vote. Is it possible to register to vote quickly, or does that require some minimum length of stay?

Obtaining a billing statement seems like it would require establishing an account at a new address and then waiting for the first month's bill.

How about a certificate of residence from a rental office?

[Cathay Pacific 0]

if you say you have time, then have somebody in your family (or do the call yourself) request that for you. it takes less than a week to mail to your US address and then you can have that sent to you express.

or, in the philippines you can marry anywhere you want, it doesn't matter where you live. so you can submit your reqs in another city where the cert is sufficient.

a simple affidavit stating the "negative" will not be accepted if it's not in a list of alternative acceptable docs

Thanks for your reply, but what is the document that I would be requesting, and from whom?

Also, I have read that a couple can marry anywhere they like, but that my fiancee must apply for the license at her city of residence:

"file an application for a marriage license at the office of the Philippine Civil Registrar in the town or city where one of the parties is a resident"

US Embassy: Marriage in the Philippines: The Marriage Application Process

I am not a resident of the Philippines, so that means my fiancee's city of residence, doesn't it?

Or is this requirement not strictly enforced?

Edited November 22, 2011 by Cathay Pacific

[TeapotGirl 66]

Perhaps it would be better to avoid a potential rejection of our license application, and for my fiancee to instead establish residence in another city?

You mentioned a billing statement and registering to vote. Is it possible to register to vote quickly, or does that require some minimum length of stay?

Obtaining a billing statement seems like it would require establishing an account at a new address and then waiting for the first month's bill.

How about a certificate of residence from a rental office?

I hear some people here getting married out of the city of residence. Say they literally work and live in Manila but they have relatives in the province, that's where they get married so more people can attend to wedding. I wasn't married before but I hear a lot of friends doing that. I am not sure what's the big issue of residence and the requirement. There are some young couples who didn't vote before, never had a bill after their name but was able to marry.

Edited November 22, 2011 by teapotgurl1983

[Cathay Pacific 0]

I hear some people here getting married out of the city of residence. Say they literally work and live in Manila but they have relatives in the province, that's where they get married so more people can attend to wedding. I wasn't married before but I hear a lot of friends doing that. I am not sure what's the big issue of residence and the requirement. There are some young couples who didn't vote before, never had a bill after their name but was able to marry.

Thanks. It's nice to hope officials will be laid back about all of this, but I'm learning as much as possible to minimize the chance of failure.

After reading this editorial about the Quezon City civil registry, I'm definitely leaning towards avoiding that place entirely, and establishing residence for my fiancee in another city:

Philippine Daily Inquirer: Graft-ridden civil registry (in Quezon City)

If we go to the Quezon City Hall and our marriage license application is rejected (or delayed), I'm concerned it will somehow impede our ability to apply in another city once we establish her residence there.

[TeapotGirl 66]

when did you get the Legal Capacity? How long has it been with you?

[Tahoma 2,292]

It appears that the Quezon City Civil Registry has not changed their website yet. The following is from the Quezon City Civil Registry:

Link to Quezon City Civil Registry. marriage requirements

I.FOR MARRIAGE LICENSES (Counter 10)

Birth or Baptismal Certificates of both applicants. If widowed, death certificate of demise spouse, if previous marriage was annulled, copy of Court Decision and absolute Decree of Finality from the Court,

Community Tax Certificates of both applicants, male and female;

One ID photo (colored or black and white) of each applicant, male and female;

Certificate of Family Planning and Marriage Counseling*

*(There is no age limit for Family Planning, however couples 24 years and bellow need to attend Family Planning Sessions, and Marriage counseling. These sessions are scheduled for one-half day within the premises of the City Hall. (Inquire from any of the office clerks at Counters 8, 9, & 10 about the details)

If applicant is a Foreigner, requirements are:

Valid Passport;

Certificate of legal capacity to marry issued by their respective diplomatic or consular officials;

If divorced, copy of Final Decree of Absolute Divorce;

Certificate of Family Planning & Marriage Counseling & Responsible Parenthood.

Marriageable Age: 18 years old (male or female)

Persons below 21 years old need parental consent.

Persons 21 years and below 25 years old need advice from parents.

Registration Fees:

Application form - P50.00

Filing Fee - 100.00

Marriage License Fee - 100.00

Registration of Marriage Certificate - 70.00

Issuance of Marriage License should be released after 10 days posting after the Marriage Application was filed. License expires 120 days from the date license was issued.

[Cathay Pacific 0]

when did you get the Legal Capacity? How long has it been with you?

Just last week, but I was told it's good for 120 days.

[Cathay Pacific 0]

It appears that the Quezon City Civil Registry has not changed their website yet. The following is from the Quezon City Civil Registry:

Link to Quezon City Civil Registry. marriage requirements

...

Registration Fees:

Application form - P50.00

Filing Fee - 100.00

Marriage License Fee - 100.00

Registration of Marriage Certificate - 70.00

Issuance of Marriage License should be released after 10 days posting after the Marriage Application was filed. License expires 120 days from the date license was issued.

Thanks Tahoma. Since the embassy person and the US Embassy web site both report that QC is no longer accepting the certificate, I agree that it's likely they have not updated their web site.

That Philippines Inquirer editorial about graft in Quezon City makes me wonder about the fees as well. Those numbers quoted from the web site all look reasonable, but I wonder if that's adjusted upwards based on apparent ability to pay more?

Even if I dressed as modestly as possible, they'd still make me for an American once I submitted my passport. Everyone has families to feed, so I understand this kind of thing, but I would have no idea how much money to bring. Would they double or triple the fees for me? Or add one or two zeros for a 10x or 100x multiplier? :gulp:

Looks like we should first try establishing residence in another city, and only go to the Quezon City Hall if that doesn't work out.

Thanks for the info!