Traffic tickets on N-400

[Shakil 4]

I didn't list two of my traffic tickets on the N-400 by reading that I don't need to submit documentation. Do I take a copy of my driving record from DMV at my interview next month and explain to the officer? Do I tell the officer regardless if he asks or not? Can this go incredibly wrong? My traffic tickets were $300 and $400. Please help.

[CoffeeBeans 1]

I didn't list two of my traffic tickets on the N-400 by reading that I don't need to submit documentation. Do I take a copy of my driving record from DMV at my interview next month and explain to the officer? Do I tell the officer regardless if he asks or not? Can this go incredibly wrong? My traffic tickets were $300 and $400. Please help.

May be other more knowledgeable posters (like JustBob and NickD) can give you better advice on this one.

Why don't you also try call USCIS (or do an infopass if you have time for that), tell them you misread the filing instruction on N-400 and unintentionally left out a couple of traffic infractions, ask them how you can correct the unintentional omission. See what they say.

Traffic infractions are usually not a deal breaker, many people had reported them on their N-400 forms and successfully gain their citizenship. So, don't stress. USCIS has zero tolerance for lying, as long as you have been honest all the way, you are fine.

Good luck and cheers

[warlord 73]

This is probably one of the most common questions asked. Traffic fines do not necessarily need to be mentioned. There is another site that goes over this in detail. Generally you don't need to mention them if they do not include any DUI or any fine greater then $500. This also includes parking tickets.

Now when you don't mention them, they may still ask you questions about court dates, if you have had a court date for a traffic ticket then you would mention it. Most cases they'll pass over it and not bother. Worst case is they'll ask for proof it was paid.

Instances where you should probably disclose them is when you have other major issues with your application. Like as in arrests or other things.

When I was doing my application I did all the research I could on this. I contacted lawyers, the USCIS and even asked my IO during my interview on it. All sources said no, they do not need to be disclosed unless the other criteria exists.

Does it hurt to disclose them? No, the USCIS states:

"Even if you have committed a minor crime, USCIS may deny your application if you

do not tell the USCIS officer about the incident. Note that unless a traffic incident was

alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and

incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine less than

$500 and/or points on your driver’s license."

Some people though have disclosed them, and then asked for proof they were paid, which could take some time. Especially if they were really old or from out of state.

Here is the main thread on traffic tickets if you want to do more research:

http://forums.immigration.com/threads/81187-Traffic-tickets-and-naturalization-(threads-merged)

In my case, the IO asked me if I had ever been to court. I answered yes (as I did have to go to court for a traffic ticket in a county where all tickets you had to go to court). I told him it was for a speeding ticket. He just asked if it was a DUI or over $500 and that was it. I asked him if I should have disclosed it still, even though when I called the USCIS they said no. He said the same thing and says they are not concerned with simple traffic fines at all and that I was fine not disclosing them. Now this was in 2006 so maybe things have changed a bit, but I doubt it knowing how slow the USCIS is in implementing new criteria.

Hope the link helps.

Edited September 19, 2011 by warlord

[NickD 203]

Stepdaughter got caught twice, both as a minor, one was a 51 buck fine, other was 120 bucks, but she worked that off by doing community service. When asked about her traffic violations, she was honest, but a decision could not be made at this time as her IO wanted proof those fines were paid. Senator thought that was going way over their authority as the instructions do say, violations of this type do not have to be reported. That was the end of that, but very frustrating for us.

Still say, we should meet with a board, not just one idiot IO.

[Shakil 4]

So, should I contact the courts and get a proof of payment from them. I live in Orange County, CA and one ticket is from here (Speeding) and other one is from Alameda County (Northern California) (red light camera). The OC one would be easier to get but the NorCal one would be difficult. Even if not mentioning on N-400 as warlord said the IO can still ask for proof of any payment for any tickets including traffic infractions. Is that right? But then the question is that N-400 clearly states as warlord quoted that "Note that unless a traffic incident was

alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and

incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine less than

$500 and/or points on your driver’s license."

If you don't need any documentation then why do they ask for proof of payment.

I am more confused than I was originally as to what to do?

Edited September 19, 2011 by Shakil

[kaukas 2]

I made the same mistake, and asked the same question here on VJ. The answer I got here is that I should disclose the tickets anyway at the time of the interview, and provide proof of payment.

I called/wrote and received the copies of driving records from DMVs, final copies of dispositions and receipts of payment, all certified. I made photocopies of them so if they want to keep them at the interview, they could. I will of course be bringing the original certified copies. I will probably print the new version of N-400 with new date, but I don't know if that will be necessary.

My offenses were, 1) expired tag ($60), 2) speeding ($70), and 3) moving violation ($160) over the course of 12 years from two different states.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you the outcome; my interview date is 10/03. Just thought you might want to know what other person is doing to prepare for the interview.

[CoffeeBeans 1]

So, should I contact the courts and get a proof of payment from them. I live in Orange County, CA and one ticket is from here (Speeding) and other one is from Alameda County (Northern California) (red light camera). The OC one would be easier to get but the NorCal one would be difficult. Even if not mentioning on N-400 as warlord said the IO can still ask for proof of any payment for any tickets including traffic infractions. Is that right? But then the question is that N-400 clearly states as warlord quoted that "Note that unless a traffic incident was

alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and

incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine less than

$500 and/or points on your driver’s license."

If you don't need any documentation then why do they ask for proof of payment.

I am more confused than I was originally as to what to do?

Actually, many people have different opinion on this subject. Personally I interpret the question on N-400 as report everything no matter how trivial in nature that may be.

Regarding the documentation part, M-476 (page 25) clearly states, "no need to provide documentation for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine of <$500 and/or points on your driver license".

I interpret this as supporting documentation you provide to USCIS to support the traffic infractions disclosure on N-400 as having been resolved lawfully and no longer an issue the law of court. So, my take is you do not need to submit records of your citations and/or proof of fines you paid. If you still have proofs of fines paid, you can bring those with you to the interview if you like, if the incidents were old, more than likely the case officer may just ask you for some details and let it go. In CA, I know citations (pertaining to moving violations) issued by courts not paid for will result in arrest warrants being issued and suspension of driving licenses. If your case officer insists to see proof you have paid for your citations, and you do not keep the receipts, just show him/her Page 25 of M-476 that your incidents fit into the criteria for no documentation required, and mention your driver license is still in good order, which will be good proof enough you have paid your fines.

In any case, it seems that it is pretty much up to the case officer who will be interviewing you to decide if he/she wants to give you a hard time on the offenses or not. This part you have no control over. If you are unlucky to get a bad one, stay calm and politely defuse the situation the best you can. Normally traffic infractions are not a deal breaker in the eye of USCIS, lying is. As long as you have been honest throughout, the officer can pick bone with you that day but won't deny your case.

Don't stress. Stay positive. Cheers

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

The N-400 form and the instructions for the N-400 are as clear as it gets: you need to list them, but you don't need to document them. Since it takes less than 60 seconds to list a small infraction (I had one for using my cell phone while driving), I don't see any advantage in rolling the dice here.

If you don't understand the difference of mentioning, stating, or listing something, and documenting it, think of it this way: if asked if you ever have been divorced, and you have, the answer is yes. Not documenting this means you don't have to submit a divorce decree.

[TinTin and Samby 11]

The N-400 form and the instructions for the N-400 are as clear as it gets: you need to list them, but you don't need to document them. Since it takes less than 60 seconds to list a small infraction (I had one for using my cell phone while driving), I don't see any advantage in rolling the dice here.

If you don't understand the difference of mentioning, stating, or listing something, and documenting it, think of it this way: if asked if you ever have been divorced, and you have, the answer is yes. Not documenting this means you don't have to submit a divorce decree.

+1

[Shakil 4]

Thank you for all your answer guys. I will try to get a proof of payment from both the courts where i paid fines.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Thank you for all your answer guys. I will try to get a proof of payment from both the courts where i paid fines.

Wouldn't a DMV printout tell the IO if any tickets are outstanding?

[Shakil 4]

Well, I got the DMV record. It does list that DL was not suspended or put on hold. Failure to appear was no as well. There was only one conviction on record as I took traffic school for the other one. License status shows Valid.

Would this be enough? I called the Alameda county Fremont Hall of Justice and they said to send them an application with $25 fee for this same information. Also the DMV record is not official (printed out from DMV's website). For the official one, I need to send request to DMV along with $5 check for official record.

[NickD 203]

Failure to pay even the smallest of traffic violation in Wisconsin results in having your vehicle registration plates removed and taking your drivers' license away. Seems like proof that you can show a drivers' license is proof that you paid all of your fines.

Also making in much easier to get a ticket, use a deserted county road quite frequently, had a yellow sign to reduce to 45 mph at an intersection with one broken down bar on the corner. Recently a full mile before that intersection and a mile afterwards, reduced the speed limit to 35 mph. If you go back to 55 mph before passing that sign, a cop will be hidden in the corn and issue you a ticket. Not only at this intersection, but thousands more like it.

In our town, many speed limits have been drastically reduced. The schools would let you drop your kids off at 7:00 AM, but changed that over to 7:30 AM, no bus transportation in town and over 1,500 kids on a single lane road, then to drop kids off at three different schools scattered all over town, day care if you have to in additional, then to be on work on time at that same 8:00 AM deadline. One huge traffic jam is caused by all the cops driving around, thanks to 9/11 for our safety with tickets given for doing 21 in a 20 mph zone.

Sill have a lot of road closures due to zillions of tons of road salt spread last winter, but hurry up and repair that damage, because they are going to do that again in a month or so. More traffic delays.

Three years ago, the USCIS had a bug about providing a worthless joint utility bill as marriage evidence, even though the immigrant spouse is on the home deed and property tax bill. Now and for the last nine months or so, has been proof that you paid your traffic violations they say you don't have to show. They started a 75 buck fine last year for using your cell phone while driving, but now talking about another legislation about sending text messages. Would think that is also covered by not using your cell phone, but Bluetooth is working around that law. Latest thing is a cop can stop you with a 200 buck fine if not wearing your safety belt, even though the speed limit is 15 mph, and you have 13 airbags that you paid for by law in your vehicle.

And now the USCIS wants proof that you paid these fines. But that was the IO, his supervisor said no, didn't have too, just more delays.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

I didn't want to comment again on this, but I can't help it.

As I stated before, there is no need to document anything under $500. List all the traffic violations you remember truthfully, and that covers it for once and for all. Nobody cares. All that matters is that you be truthful to the best of your ability.

[Shakil 4]

I didn't want to comment again on this, but I can't help it.

As I stated before, there is no need to document anything under $500. List all the traffic violations you remember truthfully, and that covers it for once and for all. Nobody cares. All that matters is that you be truthful to the best of your ability.

As I posted in my original post, I have already submitted my N-400 WITHOUT writing the tickets information. My interview is scheduled for 19th Oct if you see my signature. I was looking for suggestion of what to do next, since I didn't write my tickets assuming that anything under $500 need not to be written but I was wrong.. Now what?