what is the difference between a citizen through naturalization and a citizen through birth?

[v333k 59]

hi all

I've been having this discussion with another member regarding US citizens (through birth/ through naturalization) that sort of went off the OP's original question.

Original thread:

http://www.visajourn...22#entry4035522

Can you pitch in your ideas by replying to this thread?

Edited June 29, 2010 by v333k

[antda 13]

V33k-What an interesting question...Well, here is my response...

Differences.....

Citizenship through Naturalization

-Timeline: 5 years (or 3 years based on marriage)

-$675 Naturalization Certificate Fee with the USCIS

-$400 for replacement Naturalization certificate if lost

-Having to go through USCIS hell and paying other USCIS related fees throught the years

-A# still relevant, biometrics are taken, USCIS is still watching...lol....

-Cannot run for US President

-Always having 'another birth country' listed on documents and paperwork (lol..can be discriminatory in ways)

-Having to swear an "Oath of Naturalization/Citizenship"

-Having to go through an oath ceremony

-Citizenship can be revoked/lost for many reasons (though this is rare...)

-Can lose this citizenship if gained another citizenship afterwards

-Might have to give up citizenships/rights to former countries (depends on the other country)

-Choice made as an adult

-IT IS OPTIONAL. YOU CAN CHOOSE TO BECOME A US CITIZEN OR NOT....THINK CAREFULLY BEFORE MAKING SUCH A DECISION!

Citizenship through Birth

-Timeline: 9 months in-utero

-$??? in hospital/birth fees

-Not having to go through the USCIS (lucky them!)

-Fastest way for one to get US Citizenship

-Citizenship cannot be totally lost, since it is a birthright (although there are ways to revoke such)

-Having the "United States of America" listed as a birth country on legal documents and paperwork

-Can run for US president

-Choice made by parents.

-NOT A TOO MUCH OF A CHOICE HERE....lol...

Similarities....

Citizenship through naturalization and birth

-Have to pay US Taxes, regardless of where they live in the world (Uncle Sam is chasing you!...)

-Can carry a US Passport and travel with such

-Can serve on a US Jury

-Can vote in a US Election

-Can run for political office (except for presidency for naturalization)

-Both are supposed to be treated as 'equal' in terms of rights and responsibilities

-Not have to worry about deportation, or anything else like that

-Can come and go and live between the USA and other coutries

-Most important: You are American!!!!

-Etc.

On a funny note: My son became a USC 3 months before I did, as he was born only a few months before I became a US Citizen through naturalization...Lol..he spent 9 months in-utero..While I had to wait 3 years for the entire USCIS process (see my VJ timeline for more info)....Yup, the baby beat me to it! Funny...

Nevertheless, we are all US Citizens....And that's all that matters! Happily Ever After...

Hope this helps. Good luck on your journeys too.

Ant

P.S. To the OP-I listed my then 3 month old son on the N-400 form too, since it says to list all children, regardless...I just put his name, birthdate, and put "Already a US Citizen, born in the USA" (or something along those lines)...Hope this helps too.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[antda 13]

P.S. Another Difference..

Citizenship through Naturalization...

$400+ and gosh knows how many months wait for a replacement certificate if lost/stolen/damaged, etc...

Citizenship through Birth...

$30 (or something along those lines) and about 1-2 weeks wait for a replacement certificate if lost/stolen/damaged, etc...

Ant

[engineer21 51]

Not that I am planning on skipping out once naturalized..

But I've always wondered if it is ever frowned upon for a naturalized citizen to move and live in another country for an extended period of time?

I know that while you are a permanent residence you have to maintain that residence, can't be gone for more than a year, etc.

But the day after your oath ceremony, that requirement is gone? Completely?

You don't run the risk of raising any flags or anything? Does USCIS still watch your every move?

Edited June 29, 2010 by engineer21

[antda 13]

Not that I am planning on skipping out once naturalized..

But I've always wondered if it is ever frowned upon for a naturalized citizen to move and live in another country for an extended period of time?

I know that while you are a permanent residence you have to maintain that residence, can't be gone for more than a year, etc.

But the day after your oath ceremony, that requirement is gone? Completely?

You don't run the risk of raising any flags or anything? Does USCIS still watch your every move?

Engineer21-As a US Citizen, you can come and go as you please for an extended period of time....

Lol..Heck, you don't even have to come back to the USA after you naturalized...(but why bother naturalizing, if one is going to do this...sounds stupid to me...and I will personally frown on that one....lol.... )

For permanent residency...you have to stay in the USA for at least 6 months within a year..or lose residency

For naturalization...you can stay or leave the USA for as long as you want...and you won't lose US Citizenship..

However....REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU LIVE IN THE WORLD, AS A US CITIZEN, WHETHER THROUGH NATURALIZATION, BIRTH, OR OTHERWISE, YOU STILL HAVE TO FILE YOUR AMERICAN TAXES!!!

And Uncle Sam and the IRS is still "watching" you this way.....

So think carefully before leaving....Cause if you return...

Uncle Sam won't be too happy unless his taxes are paid...

Hope this helps too.

Ant

Edited June 29, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[engineer21 51]

Engineer21-As a US Citizen, you can come and go as you please for an extended period of time....

Lol..Heck, you don't even have to come back to the USA after you naturalized...(but why bother naturalizing, if one is going to do this...sounds stupid to me...and I will personally frown on that one....lol.... )

For permanent residency...you have to stay in the USA for at least 6 months within a year..or lose residency

For naturalization...you can stay or leave the USA for as long as you want...and you won't lose US Citizenship..

However....REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU LIVE IN THE WORLD, AS A US CITIZEN, WHETHER THROUGH NATURALIZATION, BIRTH, OR OTHERWISE, YOU STILL HAVE TO FILE YOUR AMERICAN TAXES!!!

And Uncle Sam and the IRS is still "watching" you this way.....

So think carefully before leaving....Cause if you return...

Uncle Sam won't be too happy unless his taxes are paid...

Hope this helps too.

Ant

Haha No, I wasn't planning on it. After all the $$$ I will have spent on this whole process, that would be stupid.

I'm just wondering if USCIS still tracks your ins and outs like they do when you are an 'Alien'

[antda 13]

Haha No, I wasn't planning on it. After all the $$$ I will have spent on this whole process, that would be stupid.

I'm just wondering if USCIS still tracks your ins and outs like they do when you are an 'Alien'

Engineer21-Glad that you're not going to do that.. Now your next choice would be to either renew your green card every 10 years or to go for citizenship through naturalization.....Either way, you can stay in the country, and both choices have pros/cons to them too...Decide accordingly...(and there's lots of info on VJ to help with that decision too)....

As for the USCIS tracking...Probably not....As you can't travel with a USCIS issued naturalization certificate...

However, as a US Citizen, one does have to travel with a US Passport...

And the DHS can keep track of all of its US Citizens this way, regardless of how they received US Citizenship.....

Btw....the USCIS is a branch of the DHS....They are all related in some way or other...lol.....

Then there is the IRS......Can't lose them, regardless...lol....

So overall, we can't be government-free.....They are still watching.....

Ant

Edited June 29, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[antda 13]

P.P.S. Naturalization Certificates have numbers...

Birth Certificates have numbers...

Social Security Cards have numbers....

Sad to say, we can't escape numbers...So really we're all 'equally numbered' in ways...

Ant

[antda 13]

P.P.P.S.

One more dfference I forgot to mention too...

Citizenship through Naturalization...

-One has to actually study and be tested on their knowledge of US Civics, History, English, etc....

They have to "know" about their country before they become a citizen...

Now that's what I call citizenship that is well deserved!

Citizenship through Birth..

-One does not have to study to be a citizen....

Yes, one can be as "dumb as a doornail" and still be a citizen...

Lol..I wonder how many citizens by birth really do know about their birth country...hmm.....

Ant

[CaptainPenguin 5]

I'm just wondering if USCIS still tracks your ins and outs like they do when you are an 'Alien'

The USCIS does not but the DHS/TSA and the FBI has a joint database where they track every cross border movement of yours and also every single flight you have been on, regardless of it being domestic or international. This is not readily available information for anyone, they need a search warrant from a federal judge to access it, but you can request a transcript from it, kind of creepy mind you. Also very very long but not very detailed if you travel a lot, it also takes almost a year for them to furnish you with the paperwork if you decide to do it.

[v333k 59]

I do agree with everyone - but technically, a naturalized US citizen does not and should never get asked about his/her A# unless applying for a replacement naturalization cert.

For example, on the N-400 application, they do ask about the spouse (applying based on 3 years) if he/she was naturalization or born in the US... they ask where they got naturalized but don't ask about an A#.

In any case - Ant - thanks for all the differences/similarities....

[v333k 59]

The USCIS does not but the DHS/TSA and the FBI has a joint database where they track every cross border movement of yours and also every single flight you have been on, regardless of it being domestic or international. This is not readily available information for anyone, they need a search warrant from a federal judge to access it, but you can request a transcript from it, kind of creepy mind you. Also very very long but not very detailed if you travel a lot, it also takes almost a year for them to furnish you with the paperwork if you decide to do it.

Every American is checked as you said, especially if you travel to certain countries and "disappear" for a long period of time. The DHS and TSA do what they do to protect this country and its people from all who intend to harm it/them.

Edited June 29, 2010 by v333k

[antda 13]

I do agree with everyone - but technically, a naturalized US citizen does not and should never get asked about his/her A# unless applying for a replacement naturalization cert.

For example, on the N-400 application, they do ask about the spouse (applying based on 3 years) if he/she was naturalization or born in the US... they ask where they got naturalized but don't ask about an A#.

In any case - Ant - thanks for all the differences/similarities....

V33k-I agree....a naturalized citizen (or any other citizen, regardless) should not be asked any "identifiying information" that can be used for discriminatory purposes in any way. This includes A#, former country of birth or citizenship, race, etc...

Lol..As a US citizen, after naturalization, I have never been asked for my A#...So I'm ok with that....

In fact, it is only the USCIS that asks for my A#...And umm...I honestly don't remember what it is at the moment...lol...

However, I have been asked my former country of birth...Which is discriminatory, especially after the fact that I am a US Citizen by naturalization, and have the same rights/responsibilities as citizenship acquired by birth in the USA...(lol...I'm not running for president...so that doesn't matter....).

I've been asked more so my SSN than my A#.....So as long as one remembers their SSN number after US Citizenship...that's all that is needed, really....

No problem about listing the similiaries/differences...Hope it helps...

I'm sure other VJers can come up with more to add to the list too....Thanks for posting such a topic...Interesting, indeed!

Ant

Edited June 30, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[v333k 59]

Hey Ant - I just noticed your signature's timeline related to your 10 year GC! LMAO!

[antda 13]

Hey Ant - I just noticed your signature's timeline related to your 10 year GC! LMAO!

V333k-Lol...Ummm...Thanks for noticing my condensed timeline.....

Yes, it's true....It took them 10 months for a 10yr green card (which I only had for 5 months)...

And it took my baby 9 months to arrive....

And yes, waiting for the both of them at the same time sure was stressful!

To be exact....I waited for my 10yr green card from Aug 2008-June 2010

And I was pregnant from Nov 2009-July 2010....

The green card took 291 days..

The baby took 285 days...

So close....But the baby won! Time-wise! lol....

Sad, really, that it had to come to that....

However, it worked out well in the end, as I had them 'speed up' my naturalization, and now that I have US Citizenship, I don't have to worry about the USCIS anymore (lol..except if I lose my certificate...hope that won't happen...)

Now that it's all over, I can laugh about it......

(lol..especially the fact that my son become a citizen before I did..now that's funny..)

And yes, breathe a sigh of relief that it is all over!

Happily Ever After, we're all US Citizens! No more USCIS! Yahoo!

Nevertheless, I still hang around VJ from time to time...It's an addiction....lol...

Good luck on your journey too. May yours have a happy ending too...

Ant

Edited June 30, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA