SHAM!! Help

[psr 1]

Being introduced by family members of the beneficiary is a red flag at consulates in Southeast Asia, and other parts of the world as well. The consulate will suspect the relationship was arranged primarily for family reunification. If a family member only arranged the introduction, but was not involved in choreographing the relationship, then this can be addressed to some degree by frontloading the petition with an explanation of the introduction. If the family of the beneficiary had any more involvement than this (for example, if they paid for any of the petitioner's travel expenses), and the consulate finds out about it, it can be very hard to overcome.

If you withdraw the petition now it will not make the file go away. Your fiancee has a P6C marker in her file. Withdrawing the petition would allow USCIS to presume that the accusation of fraud is a fact.

Do you know which service center received your returned petition? Was it California or Vermont? The two service centers generally have different tactics in dealing with returned petitions.

Vermont has historically investigated returned petitions, and either reaffirmed them or sent a Notice Of Intent to Deny (NOID) to the petitioner. This can take months or years.

For some time, California was just letting returned petitions expire "without prejudice", and telling the petitioner they were free to file again. Recently, they've added to that tactic. When the petitioner files a second petition, they issue a NOID citing the reasons the consular officer denied the visa for the first petition.

Generally speaking, you can either get married and file a CR1 petition, or you can wait for the outcome of the K1 petition. You could also file a second K1 petition, but there's no telling what will happen with it. If USCIS is re-adjudicating the first K1 petition then they'll probably hold up your second K1 petition. If it's the California service center, you might receive a NOID on the second K1 petition, as mentioned above. Even if you don't receive a NOID, and the second K1 petition gets approved, the consulate could sit on it waiting for a final decision on the first K1 petition.

Whatever you decide to do, if you end up receiving a NOID then you absolutely must respond to it vigorously. If you don't respond, or your response isn't convincing and they revoke the approval of the first petition, then your fiancee is going to be considered guilty of fraud. You'll need a hardship waiver to overcome this, and these are difficult to get.

You might want to consult with Marc Ellis. He's an immigration attorney who lives in Saigon. He knows the consulates in East Asia very well.

Wow. thank you so much. this with many of the other responses is perfect and exactly what I needed to know and commit too. A CR1 sounds like the best course of action. right after our denial, I was so hot and angry that we had a light wedding ceremony which lasted 1 1/2 days compared to a 3 full long days wedding in the country and piled up a new picture wedding album to use for the next interview. Thank you again and I will get in touch with Marc. regards

[Anh map 2,098]

Yes, it was the Phnom Penh embassy. I was extremely disappointed in the interview process. the entire interview was done in english, while the other girls were done in KHMER.I only know the basics of KHMER. I wanted to just have her focus on english and for me not to interrupt her learning by me speaking KHMER. the denial statement was I didn't speak KHMER and she lacked in the english language. As of right now and even prior to the interview we communicate fine, we talk on the phone for 1-2 hours a day everyday without fail. The CO didn't even want to hear any real extensive reasoning, by the time he already came back he had the 221(g) denial with the "SHAM" indicator in hand. As I have noted on the OP, she answered all of the baseline questions with ease, but when he asked her what I did at my job and she couldn't explain what a COO does, the CO just labeled that as not knowing enough about my work and personal life. the lack of english was stated in the response documents as one of the denial criteria.

Lack of a common language can cause problems. There have been a couple of VJ members going through HCMC, Vietnam that had similar circumstances. While you were there for all the right reasons (and in the majority of cases this is a BIG plus) it did draw attention to this red flag.

Based on what you've stated thus far the introduction may have been a question mark for the CO as they reviewed the case file prior to the interview. And then the common language issue may have been the tipping point.

Do you two email and/or chat regularly? And if so, did you submit copies and transcripts? Any regular snail mail? The key now is to demonstrate that you had been able to communicate during your courtship.

Any other things about your relationship that could cause a CO to question the bona fides? Short courtship? Fiancee having many relatives living near you in the US?

[sachinky 465]

Listen to Jim.

I can see why the language barrier was perceived to be a problem. You speak no Khmer. According to the CO, your fiancee doesn't have a strong grasp of the English language. Coupled with the family introduction and that she had no knowledge of what your work position entails, I can see why the CO would deny the case.

File for a CR-1 and front-load the petition with overwhelming evidence.

Good luck!

[Tex_N_Tien 0]

I need some inputs from the community. I had my consulate interview with my fiancee back in Feb 9th, 2010 and the response we got was it's a "Sham" in return was denied. I am a US citizen and my fiancee is Cambodian. I was introduced to her by my co-workers (family member). Has anyone else gotten a "sham" and received a second chance with the same petition or did you do something otherwise?

The consulate officer deemed it not a bona fide due to the fact that she didn't speak enough english, didn't know what a COO (Chief Operating Officer) does at work, couldn't name my golfing buddies names. She anwswered everyone of those baseline questions with the correct answer, but couldn't go into details, due to the fact that he conducted the interview in english through a 2 inch glass window with a horrible mic that was no better than a drive through McD's. I need some insights into this. I've spoken with many attorney's and they have no clear answers. it's been going on 4 months since the interview and no letter back from the embassy and NVC as to what I can do. HELP. thanks people

Sorry your dealing with this. We went through this last fall. We filed a K-1 application in Vietnam. We had the fraud label slapped on us, and hearing it was like a punch in the gut. We got married and filed for a CR-1 in January. Definitely file the rebuttal, even if you decide to go the CR-1 route. From my experience, and everything I have read, the CO's in high fraud countries are suspicious of K-1 filings. I think following through and getting married helps prove to the CO that you are a legitimate relationship. Good luck in whatever you decide.

[psr 1]

Lack of a common language can cause problems. There have been a couple of VJ members going through HCMC, Vietnam that had similar circumstances. While you were there for all the right reasons (and in the majority of cases this is a BIG plus) it did draw attention to this red flag.

Based on what you've stated thus far the introduction may have been a question mark for the CO as they reviewed the case file prior to the interview. And then the common language issue may have been the tipping point.

Do you two email and/or chat regularly? And if so, did you submit copies and transcripts? Any regular snail mail? The key now is to demonstrate that you had been able to communicate during your courtship.

Any other things about your relationship that could cause a CO to question the bona fides? Short courtship? Fiancee having many relatives living near you in the US?

our relationship is at the 1 1/2yr mark. for the first 6 months we used her aunt as the translator on every single phone call which was done at her home. the last year it's just been her and me on the phone with any translators, this should show that we have the ability to talk to each other for that 1-2hrs a day on the phone. One of the big drawbacks to her living conditions is that she lives in village that does not have electricity and they live off truck battery for source of power. the nearest town is 20 minutes and I have just started email with her, but it's for now one-way. I send pictures and notes and cards, she can open her email account and check along with the help of the staff member to send me pictures that are on her phone through their email. there is absolutely no sign or existence of snail mail. I've travel the world for work, but have never been to a place such as her hometown. It makes my gut turn inside out thinking that she is there and I'm here. I send her money every two weeks through western union for the past 1 1/2yr without fail. this wasn't enough validation as well for the CO. my friend her aunt never paid a single penny for any part of our relationship and I have been committed to making sure that she has everything that she needs to take care of her and her family.

[psr 1]

Sorry your dealing with this. We went through this last fall. We filed a K-1 application in Vietnam. We had the fraud label slapped on us, and hearing it was like a punch in the gut. We got married and filed for a CR-1 in January. Definitely file the rebuttal, even if you decide to go the CR-1 route. From my experience, and everything I have read, the CO's in high fraud countries are suspicious of K-1 filings. I think following through and getting married helps prove to the CO that you are a legitimate relationship. Good luck in whatever you decide.

thank you and all the rest who have submitted their inputs. very encouraging and from the posted threads to this point is shaping to be an excellent read for anyone who might be going through this as well. while there has been some great threads in the other forums, this is great. thanks again to all that have participated and looking at everyone's photos and their placements, I hope to have a picture of me and my wife on the sidebar like everyone else. regards

[Justine+David 218]

I hope you get to be with her soon

[SupastarsaM 7]

Hey there friend. Sorry to hear about the denial. I'm filing CR-1 at the moment and I honestly think that's the route you might want to take. Get married and go that route. Save everything and ask for receipts if you can when you go to Cambodia again. My wife lives in Phnom Penh and she speaks English pretty well. If anything, I would suggest you set your computer to save all instant message chat logs from yahoo or any other instant message programs. Also, I usually do a screen capture when we're both online and chatting. Make sure you set it to show the time and date in the message box also. I think it'll help. I plan on printing all of this and also sending her a DVD of our wedding. I would suggest you try to brush up on your Khmer as much as you can. I grew up speaking it at home and learned a lot from watching old Chinese movies dubbed in Khmer. I'm sure she has a cell phone and you can send her texts and print those out also. I've just got service with a company called metropcs because the texts to Cambodia are free. AT&T were charging me .50 per text and at the rate she and I were texting, I'd be spending hundreds a month on the phone bill. Get witnesses or people that know of your relationship and now marriage to sign affidavits and get them notarized. Build yourself a heck of a case. I have customers of mines and friends that are ready to type out references about my character. After you triple check everything..triple check again. I would suggest you pay for her to get more English studies out there and send her CD's or books to help her learn more while waiting. What I did instead of sending money through wire transfers was get a friend I know that works at my bank to open up a joint account for us. I sent her an ATM card and she can pull out whatever she needs when she wants. I was charged only 2 dollars every time I used the ATM machine there at AZN Bank (you can pull out up to five thousand for the fee of 2$). I'm printing out all the transaction records to keep so I can send it to her before we hit the interview stage. If you're iffy about sending an ATM card, use Money Gram. It's a bit cheaper then Western Union and I've seen just as many of those as I did Western Union. BTW what town and province is she from? Good Luck

Sam,

[SupastarsaM 7]

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/61956-cambodian-vj-thread/

This is the thread that the Khmer members go to post questions. Niels and Thansaur has helped me out a lot and they usually check for new posts on there. I think they will be able to help answer some of your questions also since they've already went through the process. I'm still waiting for NOA2 so I can only suggest what I think would help. Also, check out the Cambodia (country section) because they have information also ( interview recaps and experiences and things like that ) I spent almost a month just reading and reading before I sent out my I-130 packet to the USCIS.

Sam,

[psr 1]

Hey there friend. Sorry to hear about the denial. I'm filing CR-1 at the moment and I honestly think that's the route you might want to take. Get married and go that route. Save everything and ask for receipts if you can when you go to Cambodia again. My wife lives in Phnom Penh and she speaks English pretty well. If anything, I would suggest you set your computer to save all instant message chat logs from yahoo or any other instant message programs. Also, I usually do a screen capture when we're both online and chatting. Make sure you set it to show the time and date in the message box also. I think it'll help. I plan on printing all of this and also sending her a DVD of our wedding. I would suggest you try to brush up on your Khmer as much as you can. I grew up speaking it at home and learned a lot from watching old Chinese movies dubbed in Khmer. I'm sure she has a cell phone and you can send her texts and print those out also. I've just got service with a company called metropcs because the texts to Cambodia are free. AT&T were charging me .50 per text and at the rate she and I were texting, I'd be spending hundreds a month on the phone bill. Get witnesses or people that know of your relationship and now marriage to sign affidavits and get them notarized. Build yourself a heck of a case. I have customers of mines and friends that are ready to type out references about my character. After you triple check everything..triple check again. I would suggest you pay for her to get more English studies out there and send her CD's or books to help her learn more while waiting. What I did instead of sending money through wire transfers was get a friend I know that works at my bank to open up a joint account for us. I sent her an ATM card and she can pull out whatever she needs when she wants. I was charged only 2 dollars every time I used the ATM machine there at AZN Bank (you can pull out up to five thousand for the fee of 2$). I'm printing out all the transaction records to keep so I can send it to her before we hit the interview stage. If you're iffy about sending an ATM card, use Money Gram. It's a bit cheaper then Western Union and I've seen just as many of those as I did Western Union. BTW what town and province is she from? Good Luck

Sam,

Good info. we are not there yet as to IM or video chats. i stopped texting because like you i was getting charged .50 per text and it was charging her almost .75 cents each text she sent. I use this phone card that cost $2 and it gives me 58mins of talk time and I go through at least 2 a day. I will take everything that you have told me and put it to work. She is from a small village in Udom Meanchany near Samrang/Chunkol. it's a very tiny village. also I agree with you there that money gram is everywhere and is little cheaper but in her main village she only has western union. thanks for all your input Sam.

[psr 1]

I hope you get to be with her soon

are you from Seattle? and it looks as though the wedding is in Seattle. I am in Seattle. congrats. regards to Justine+David all the best

[thongd4me 69]

I need some inputs from the community. I had my consulate interview with my fiancee back in Feb 9th, 2010 and the response we got was it's a "Sham" in return was denied. I am a US citizen and my fiancee is Cambodian. I was introduced to her by my co-workers (family member). Has anyone else gotten a "sham" and received a second chance with the same petition or did you do something otherwise?

The consulate officer deemed it not a bona fide due to the fact that she didn't speak enough English,

didn't know what a COO (Chief Operating Officer) does at work, couldn't name my golfing buddies names.

She answered everyone of those baseline questions with the correct answer, but couldn't go into details,

due to the fact that he conducted the interview in english through a 2 inch glass window with a horrible mic

that was no better than a drive through McD's.

I need some insights into this. I've spoken with many attorney's and they have no clear answers.

it's been going on 4 months since the interview and no letter back from the embassy and NVC

as to what I can do. HELP. thanks people

My Thai wife's English is excellent and we have had no problem (with the K-1 process),

BUT I can recall when the shoe was on the other foot, meaning a zillion years ago when

I arrived in Paris at around the age of 21 and met a French girl.

In that case her English was not very good at all and my French was next to NOTHING.

However, we had a pretty good relationship (for a short time) and while it lasted, it

was genuine.

I want to play the devil's advocate for a moment and ask WHY it's incumbent on the

non-USC to learn English to prove a "genuine" relationship. Naturally the CO will

say that in order for her to function in the US a knowledge of English is essential.

That may be true, but it has nothing to do with how genuine the relationship is.

By disqualifying the beneficiary on those grounds, the CO has not applied the

required criteria for a K-1 visa, namely that the relationship is real.

The only advice I can give is you may want to become more active rather

than reactive in this situation and bring it up a notch. The poor quality of

the mic at the consulate should be something that THEY fix, not you.

I would make it a major issue for the following reason:

My wife and I have known each other for over 7 years, but in the beginning

I tried to call her on the phone and found the international connection so

bad, our language difference (which was small) became magnified

100X and from then on we never called but kept it to chatting & email.

You have to think about OTHER ways you can prove how genuine your

relationship is, not just thinking about how to react to their stupid "canned" questions.

I would try to get trough to the NVC and maybe start talking with your

congressman about making a complaint to the USCIS.

Here's a lead: hook up with Viet Nam VJ members and get some

insights about how they overcome the fact that their consulate

also has a "high fraud assumed." There's a lawyer posting

on there who has a friend that brought a lawsuit for a "writ of

mandamus" to get the USCIS to comply with it's OWN regulations

regarding K-1 visas in Viet Nam and not apply those regulations

maliciously and arbitrarily.

This is the link to the complaint - I think you will read it

with GREAT interest: I forget where the post was where

I found it, but you should ask the Viet Nam members that.

Complaint

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

You can file a second K1 without waiting on the expiration of the first. The second one forces the review of the first. If you covered everything that needs to be covered you get the expiration notice for the first and the second proceeds ( judging by the weight of the package for my second one they were actually both sent to the consulate ) It doesn't affect the time line. It does affect the second interview. Sometimes it makes it shorter and others you get the same officer and they are determined to find a new reason. Remember they can only deny for facts not disclosed in the petition.

Being introduced by family members of the beneficiary is a red flag at consulates in Southeast Asia, and other parts of the world as well. The consulate will suspect the relationship was arranged primarily for family reunification. If a family member only arranged the introduction, but was not involved in choreographing the relationship, then this can be addressed to some degree by frontloading the petition with an explanation of the introduction. If the family of the beneficiary had any more involvement than this (for example, if they paid for any of the petitioner's travel expenses), and the consulate finds out about it, it can be very hard to overcome.

If you withdraw the petition now it will not make the file go away. Your fiancee has a P6C marker in her file. Withdrawing the petition would allow USCIS to presume that the accusation of fraud is a fact.

Do you know which service center received your returned petition? Was it California or Vermont? The two service centers generally have different tactics in dealing with returned petitions.

Vermont has historically investigated returned petitions, and either reaffirmed them or sent a Notice Of Intent to Deny (NOID) to the petitioner. This can take months or years.

For some time, California was just letting returned petitions expire "without prejudice", and telling the petitioner they were free to file again. Recently, they've added to that tactic. When the petitioner files a second petition, they issue a NOID citing the reasons the consular officer denied the visa for the first petition.

Generally speaking, you can either get married and file a CR1 petition, or you can wait for the outcome of the K1 petition. You could also file a second K1 petition, but there's no telling what will happen with it. If USCIS is re-adjudicating the first K1 petition then they'll probably hold up your second K1 petition. If it's the California service center, you might receive a NOID on the second K1 petition, as mentioned above. Even if you don't receive a NOID, and the second K1 petition gets approved, the consulate could sit on it waiting for a final decision on the first K1 petition.

Whatever you decide to do, if you end up receiving a NOID then you absolutely must respond to it vigorously. If you don't respond, or your response isn't convincing and they revoke the approval of the first petition, then your fiancee is going to be considered guilty of fraud. You'll need a hardship waiver to overcome this, and these are difficult to get.

You might want to consult with Marc Ellis. He's an immigration attorney who lives in Saigon. He knows the consulates in East Asia very well.

[ellis-island 6]

I got an email from psr by way of VJ. But it's confusing.

It's from VJ. But it says it's from psr. But it's VJ's email address.

And there is no message from psr in my email.

I'll be in PP this week-end.

Just send a PM to ellis-island at VJ or to my regular email address.

Sorry about that.

[SupastarsaM 7]

Bump.....

Howdy... any news on your process dude? Just wondering if you stopped by the Cambodian thread yet. Keep us updated

Sam,