America's No. 1 Killer: Cardiovascular Disease. How Americanized do you really want to become?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

No you should not pay. This is another reason the government needs to stay out of healthcare. Should I have to pay for someone's kids besides my own? I do not ask them to pay for my heart surgery and they should not ask me to pay for their kids vaccinations.

The fallacy of all this is that the government just needs to stay out of that fight and then they have nothing to lose and we all win.

I think you should be able to eat, drink, smoke, skydive, drive race cars and anything else you want to do and pay for it yourself. If you can't pay for it...don't do it. OR move into a cardboard box somewhere...I really don't care.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Once you socialize health care, I think it's perfectly acceptable to ban things that would ultimately drive costs up, say, transfats. I think you have to support both or neither.

Or else you exclude care for preventable things. Heart attacks not covered for people with high BMI, for example. But where do you draw the line?

And hence my contention that health care is not about health care, but about centralized control of people's lives. Stay out of my healthcare and you have nothing to worry about.

The line of what is treated will be drawn wherever it is politically correct. We will cover AIDS transmitted by homosexual activity, but not heart disease caused by eating cheeseburgers. Scarey stuff, isn't it?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I truly hope that is the plan, also free contraceptives. I just cannot stand it when people don't take personal responsibility for things such as their health, income and living conditions and then expect a free handout to deal with whatever went wrong. Drives me nuts. Education! Education! Education! please

Government mandates are not "personal responsibility" Keeping the government out of healthcare and requiring people to apy for their own stupidity is "personal responsibility" You like personal responsibility, but want to legislate what people eat, drink, smoke? You want people to be "free" but have a babysitter? And the best babysitter is the government? But then you have to pay for the babysitter, which you say you don;t want to do.

Just keep the government out.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Because it's so expensive to hire people, and other needed to grow organic plants/foods. Also, people that eat it, deserve what they've got.

Let them eat cake!

[Peikko 1,575]

No you should not pay. This is another reason the government needs to stay out of healthcare. Should I have to pay for someone's kids besides my own? I do not ask them to pay for my heart surgery and they should not ask me to pay for their kids vaccinations.

The fallacy of all this is that the government just needs to stay out of that fight and then they have nothing to lose and we all win.

I think you should be able to eat, drink, smoke, skydive, drive race cars and anything else you want to do and pay for it yourself. If you can't pay for it...don't do it. OR move into a cardboard box somewhere...I really don't care.

You clearly don't understand how society works. Perhaps you live in a cave on an island and have no interaction with other people? You pay all the time for the bad decisons that other people make but on the flip side, you gain substantially from the good ones they make as well.

All high risk activities are paid for by others when they go wrong and some activities negatively impact others even while they don't (smoking for example). The only way you would not pay for the actions of others in health care, would be if all insurance was weighted against those that undertook risky activites. Surprise, surprise, it's not. Personal responsiblity is all fine and dandy, I certainly prefer those who learn quickly to behave responsibly, the more the merrier, all those who drive as though they are the only person on the road should learn about personal responsibilty but sometimes ###### happens to us because someone else isn't being responsible, heck sometimes ###### happens despite the best efforts and intentions of everyone. Welcome to the real world - or not, of course.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'd like to know what part of the road Gary owns so as to avoid driving on it?

[Peikko 1,575]

I'd like to know what his job is seeing as apparantly he can afford the real cost of a heart operation - You do at least understand how insurance works Gary, right?

Edited February 21, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Ali G. 37]

I do not ask them to pay for my heart surgery and they should not ask me to pay for their kids vaccinations.

So you paid or will pay the $100K (minimum) for such a surgery in cash then will you.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I'd like to know what his job is seeing as apparantly he can afford the real cost of a heart operation - You do at least understand how insurance works Gary, right?

I paid cash and saved 50% They knock off 50% for not being insured. Just doing my part to reduce healthcare costs. Call it Gary's healthcare reform act. I know exactly how insurance works, that is why I avoid it. I am semi-retired. I spend as much time as I can goofing off and having fun doing things I enjoy. I worked for it and planned accordingly to allow me to do this. You can too. I do not wish to pay for people that do not plan and do not handle their lives very well. Not my problem.

I had open heart surgery in December and YOU didn't pay for it. As I have said, I believe in individual responsibility and individual liberty. I am not a hypocrite.

I own ALL the road...stay off it when I need it.

[Peikko 1,575]

I paid cash and saved 50% They knock off 50% for not being insured. Just doing my part to reduce healthcare costs. Call it Gary's healthcare reform act. I know exactly how insurance works, that is why I avoid it. I am semi-retired. I spend as much time as I can goofing off and having fun doing things I enjoy. I worked for it and planned accordingly to allow me to do this. You can too. I do not wish to pay for people that do not plan and do not handle their lives very well. Not my problem.

I had open heart surgery in December and YOU didn't pay for it. As I have said, I believe in individual responsibility and individual liberty. I am not a hypocrite.

I own ALL the road...stay off it when I need it.

What does that mean to you, exactly? To me that means that all those who pay insurance have paid for 50% for your operation because of your irresponsibility in not buying insurance. It seems you do not understand how insurance works, you don't understand how society works, you are incredibly irresponsible and worse selfish. I am not however particularly suprirsed.

Far from reducing the costs to other people, you are one of the louts who abuse the system and get far more than you pay for so I have to pay more for being responsible. Brilliant!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So you paid or will pay the $100K (minimum) for such a surgery in cash then will you.

$178,000 and change, yes, and that was with the 50% cash discount which I paid so you didn't have to pay the other 50% you or someone else would have to share if I had insurance and let them run my life and make my healthcare choices. I made my own decision to have quadruple bypass surgery within a few minutes of discovering the problem and being advised by a surgeon I trust because he was referred to me by my doctor and that is good enough for me. Since I pay for it, I do not need anyone's permission or "pre-approval". I was done, out of the hospital and recovering faster than an insurance company would have taken to approve the "necessity" of the surgery.

I wrote a check. Yes, I paid the bill in late December so I could write it off 2009 taxes. I don't like to carry that much cash. I rarely carry cash at all.

You have a problem with people paying for their own choices?

[Ali G. 37]

$178,000 and change, yes, and that was with the 50% cash discount which I paid so you didn't have to pay the other 50% you or someone else would have to share if I had insurance and let them run my life and make my healthcare choices. I made my own decision to have quadruple bypass surgery within a few minutes of discovering the problem and being advised by a surgeon I trust because he was referred to me by my doctor and that is good enough for me. Since I pay for it, I do not need anyone's permission or "pre-approval". I was done, out of the hospital and recovering faster than an insurance company would have taken to approve the "necessity" of the surgery.

I wrote a check. Yes, I paid the bill in late December so I could write it off 2009 taxes. I don't like to carry that much cash. I rarely carry cash at all.

You have a problem with people paying for their own choices?

If you did pay, I commend you, as you walked the talk. As such, you should not have a problem with any reform, as you paid in cash and don't have to worry about insurance.

Hypothetically speaking, what happens if both you and your wife are in a car accident and need hundreds of thousands for rehabilitation and surgery? Are you going to deplete your wealth just so you don't pay for a kid's vaccine? Ridiculous? I think not, as it happened to my cousin's cousin's here, who went from multi-millionaire to bankrupt, for being too stubborn to have insurance..

Edited February 21, 2010 by Booyah

[Peikko 1,575]

It's great that you could afford to pay 50% of the cost of your own treatment - really, but to assume the other 50% is merely 'profit' for the insurance company that you have 'saved' us from is completely niave.

If there was no such thing as health insurance, the cost of your treatment would have been astronomical, it beggers belief that you actually think that everyone could pay their own real cost bills and the health system would be as good as, if not better than it is now, and that you could afford to get such treatments, or even that such treatments would be offered.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

What does that mean to you, exactly? To me that means that all those who pay insurance have paid for 50% for your operation because of your irresponsibility in not buying insurance. It seems you do not understand how insurance works, you don't understand how society works, you are incredibly irresponsible and worse selfish. I am not however particularly suprirsed.

Far from reducing the costs to other people, you are one of the louts who abuse the system and get far more than you pay for so I have to pay more for being responsible. Brilliant!

Sorry, no. It means ...

1. You have no knowledge of how insurance works

2. It means I save the hospital at least 50% in costs by not involving an insurance company in the process and they pass along the savings to me

3. It means insurance companies increase, not reduce, costs (and the government would just be a bigger and less efficient insurance company) Big surprise

4. It means neither I nor the hospital (nor you) contributed to insurance company profits (You have heard they make a lot of money, haven't you?) Skipping the "middle man" means we all get a better deal.

I understand you are jealous and insecure at not being able to live as you preach to others...but you need to get over that and understand that those of us that control our own lives and plan for ourselves are not increasing costs for you, that is being done by your fellow insurance buyers. Paying my own way in no way is an abuse of the "system" It is an avoidance of the "system". The "system" increases your costs.

Your hospital does this too. Get over it. The cash discount is typically 35-50%. Shop around and you get a better deal.

[Ali G. 37]

1. You have no knowledge of how insurance works

2. It means I save the hospital at least 50% in costs by not involving an insurance company in the process and they pass along the savings to me

3. It means insurance companies increase, not reduce, costs (and the government would just be a bigger and less efficient insurance company) Big surprise

4. It means neither I nor the hospital (nor you) contributed to insurance company profits (You have heard they make a lot of money, haven't you?) Skipping the "middle man" means we all get a better deal.

Ahh great. Take out the anti-government rhetoric and you are starting to see how international health care systems work, where they take out the profit from the middle man and pump the savings back into the system; in the form of lower costs.

A government buying a policy in bulk will not increase the cost, it would actually drive it down. It's what we call economies of scale. If I purchased one TV from best buy I would buy it at one price. Now, if I was to purchase 10,000 from Best buy or even the TV manufacturer directly, I would definitely buy the TV for a much cheaper price. No? Obviously if the government funded the coverage directly, they could run it at cost price; effectively reducing costs even more.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Booyah