Wife got citizenship, announced she wanted divorce the next day?

[akdiver 3]

I'm firmly in the camp of RUB forum having ZERO mods. This should be a mod-free zone. We don't need 'em!

Akdiver, welcome back and when I read the topic and saw it was you, of course, it was read cum grano salis. I would like to see more of your posts though. The bank robbery story still takes the cake and is securely holding onto the "best VJ hoax ever." That was a nice relief from the monotony of waiting on a K-1 so keep that kind of stuff going.

And also, stop by here more often. It's been kind of boring around here. We're doing our best but guns and pie only gets us so far. Congrats on getting over the final hurdle and have fun diving on the mrs.

Ah, thanks slim (:

I was hoping things were still going well for you. I take it from your continued presence here, they are? Have you whipped her into shape yet, in terms of realistic economic theory? (:

Cheers!

AKD

[BluesTraveler 0]

Akdiver, ... The bank robbery story still takes the cake and is securely holding onto the "best VJ hoax ever."

do you have a link?

[akdiver 3]

I can't speak for AK, but I don't think it's hate. I too have gotten sick and tired of all the patriotic and misty-eyed bullshit that masks as patriotism.

That's just it. Today, "patriotism" amounts to proclaiming America to be this great and wonderful place, above all other great and wonderful places, without having even the slightest clue about the principles the country was founded upon, the importance of those principles and how they helped make the country "great" at one time, just how far we have strayed from those principles, and the reality of the current state of the union. God forbid these flag wavers actually know the Constitution, let alone understand it. At this point, it's a lost cause.

I don't have a problem with the pledge as long as it's voluntary, and not sure why AK does (I don't see it as professing "slavery") but I understand the sentiment.

You're confusing two issues. I said I can't in good conscience participate in any pledge of allegiance, and ALSO commented about the citizenship oath, which, essentially, requires you to become a slave to the government if it desires it necessary for you to do so:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

If the government wanted to pay reasonable and market rate, it would have all the volunteers it needed for its "work of national importance". Coercing people into performing labour at reduced rates is slavery as far as I am concerned. But then again, so is forcing me to pay taxes to support all the worthless bums in society and those who cannot or will not make their own way.

The "love it or leave it" argument being hinted at by baron555 is, by the way, a fallacy. I could easily turn that argument back on anyone who criticizes the country or government. Don't like health care reform? Get the hell out then. Don't like the PATRIOT act? Move to Switzerland you commie #######. What's this, criticizing the government because they're taking their sweet time in processing your K1? I guess you don't want America to be protected from foreign enemies, you should just buy a one-way ticket to Moscow. "Love it or leave it" is a lazy argument, sorry.

Yeah, those are the worst. There tends to be a lot of overlap between this crowd and the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" crowd (vis-à-vis warrantless searches, wiretapping, and other assorted things).

I'm firmly in the camp of RUB forum having ZERO mods. This should be a mod-free zone. We don't need 'em!

Amen.

I'm told the original subject line was the clencher and was changed by the mod (anyone know what the original subject was?)

The (now censored) subject line was "Wife got citizenship, announced she wanted divorce the next day? Ouch!"

If the mods don't have time to read, then they need more mods.

Less is more - with respect to forum mods and more formal governmental structures.

Cheers!

AKD

[mox 298]

I don't have a problem with the pledge as long as it's voluntary, and not sure why AK does (I don't see it as professing "slavery") but I understand the sentiment.

You're confusing two issues. I said I can't in good conscience participate in any pledge of allegiance, and ALSO commented about the citizenship oath, which, essentially, requires you to become a slave to the government if it desires it necessary for you to do so:

Ahhh, gotcha. Sorry, I misread.

I'm told the original subject line was the clencher and was changed by the mod (anyone know what the original subject was?)

The (now censored) subject line was "Wife got citizenship, announced she wanted divorce the next day? Ouch!"

Er...are you telling me that the "Ouch" part was the only part that was removed? That was...um...helpful?

If the mods don't have time to read, then they need more mods.

Less is more - with respect to forum mods and more formal governmental structures.

I guess I'm coming at it from more of a long-waits-at-the-DMV perspective. It just seems like what moderation *is* done, is often done in a haphazard manner. Really I think the solution, at least for this forum, is to appoint somebody (Slim's name has been dropped multiple times) the RU forum mod and be done with it.

Edited August 19, 2009 by mox

[akdiver 3]

Er...are you telling me that the "Ouch" part was the only part that was removed? That was...um...helpful?

That's all that was removed - but the whole "hasn't happened to me" part was ADDED by the mod.....for the benefit of those who can't be bothered to actually read a post before allowing it to get them all in a tizzy - I guess.

I guess I'm coming at it from more of a long-waits-at-the-DMV perspective. It just seems like what moderation *is* done, is often done in a haphazard manner. Really I think the solution, at least for this forum, is to appoint somebody (Slim's name has been dropped multiple times) the RU forum mod and be done with it.

Yeah, I nominated him for that a loooooooooooong time ago. I think he is sucker enough to do it too (: Edited August 19, 2009 by akdiver

[Captain Oates 911]

Has this ever happened to anyone? Just curious.

Hasn't happened to me. She did get citizenship recently, and we sent off for her U.S. passport, but we're still happily married. Coming up on our fourth wedding anniversary (less than a month). My, does time fly!

Cheers!

AKD

I have a good friend whose wife just got her U.S. citizenship; and, sadly, I expect to hear about her divorcing him (just any day now).

You didn't ask, but she is Ukrainian. And it seems of all the Russian couples I personally know (30 to 40 couples), the Ukrainian spouses are the most difficult - come to the U.S.; get married; get SSN and driver's license; maybe get some additional college paid for; acquire U.S. citizenship; and then go and file for divorce, claiming their American husbands don't treat them well. - This is only a few, but it sickens me when I see it happen.

I have been to Odessa (THE Odessa), and if I were a resident there I would be prepared to marry Elton to get out. Don't know why they don't ditch the spouse after the green card and do naturalization on their own after 5 years. I am sure there are genuine Ukrainian brides but boy they have an incentive

By the way, Do any non - Asian American ladies import Thai men ? My daughter was asking and I said it doesn't work like that....

I am sure there will be AN exception somewhere

[mox 298]

Pretty sure you haven't been to THE Odessa then. It's a beautiful city, lots to do, and a main tourist destination for many Eastern Europeans. There are problems and eye sores just like any Eastern European city, but overall I think it compares pretty favorably to any other modern EU city.

[baron555 934]

That's just it. Today, "patriotism" amounts to proclaiming America to be this great and wonderful place, above all other great and wonderful places, without having even the slightest clue about the principles the country was founded upon, the importance of those principles and how they helped make the country "great" at one time, just how far we have strayed from those principles, and the reality of the current state of the union. God forbid these flag wavers actually know the Constitution, let alone understand it. At this point, it's a lost cause.

Hi AK, I'm new to VJ but I do think the same. I don't know if it's a total loss, but we will lose more of our given rights before everyone wakes up. As TJ declared, "Blood must be shed for a democracy to work."

[visaveteran 1]

Happy birthday slim.

Mox wrote: "I'm not a religious person, but I prefer to practice my patriotism like I'd prefer people to practice their religion...on the inside."

Good thought...perhaps you could extend it to also cover your one-dimensional pontificating and stale left-wing talking points speeches.

Now where would the fun in that be?

Maybe I'm not as hip and cool as the California folks but I still salute the flag, get goose bumps listening to a good rendition of The Star Spangled Banner, and refuse to curse my own country.

Care to clarify? What exactly is "cursing your own country?" Like, "#### the goddamned Rocky Mountains! Just #### 'em!"? Seems like "protecting America from the Californy libtards" and "cursing your own country" depends highly on who's doing the cursing.

Y'know who else got goose bumps listening to his national anthem? Stalin. That f*cker was patriotic as hell.

(that last bit was just some good ol' fashioned American chain-yanking by the way. Laugh, it's good for you.)

I too get misty-eyed when listening to our National Anthem. But if I didn't, would that devalue my worth as a real American? I mean seriously, ####### does it matter? There are a lot of German patriots. Mexican patriots. Canadian, Polish, South African, hell probably even a few Pitcairn patriots out there who have nothing more to be proud of than the fact that a bunch of English dudes scored big time with their great grandmothers. And yet it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they may be happy or unhappy with certain aspects about their country. Because a lot of people understand that you can't love your country unconditionally like some 2 year old loves his mother. You have to love your country in a critical and sometimes offensive-to-others way, like an adult. That's how a country sustains greatness.

The left-wing town meeting crashers of the past turned me off too, but I won't label them idiots or shameful or devalue them as Americans. Cherry picking criticism of only certain groups while blessing other groups for the same behavior is the worst kind of hypocrisy, as well demonstrated by Madam Speaker Pelosi.

It's unfortunate that this is what passes for dialogue. I agree that the left-wing town hall crashers were just as bad as the right-wing town hall crashers. If you're in a searchy kind of mood, there's even a post from me floating around somewhere (I think in OT) a few years back criticizing the (if memory serves) MoveOn.org idiots for exactly that behavior. And so I'm thinking "wow, vv is making some really good sense, despite the fact that we disagree deeply about certain things." And then you've gotta throw in the "as well demonstrated by Madam Speaker Pelosi," and it pretty much all goes to hell. Because for every Madam Speaker Pelosi, there's a Mister Speaker Gingrich.

In 2004 Pelosi said she's likes "the disrupters" and in 2009 she calls disrupters un-American. That is known as a current events issue. Gingrich is not. I don't like two-faced people on either party...but Pelosi takes it to a new level. She is surely in a class by herself.

Stalin's political prisoners in Siberia cried when they heard he died. Obviously Russians are a different breed than Americans.

[mox 298]

BTW baron, I've seen that photo on the internet before, next to the photo it was cropped from. The only people sitting are the ones you see in the cropped photo. In the original, everyone else is standing up around him. (I just tried to Google it and couldn't find the original, maybe someone else will have better luck.)

One third of the homeless people in this country are veterans. I'll bet not even the wheelchair guy stands up for them though.

[mox 298]

In 2004 Pelosi said she's likes "the disrupters" and in 2009 she calls disrupters un-American. That is known as a current events issue. Gingrich is not. I don't like two-faced people on either party...but Pelosi takes it to a new level. She is surely in a class by herself.

VV, you might be able to get away with the kool-aid propaganda in OT, but I'm whatchacall a little more well read than your averate OT mouth-breather. I'm not a big Pelosi fan, but she never said that she approves of disrupting town hall meetings. She told a group of war protestors at her own town hall meeting that she "appreciates" them speaking up, even while they (her own anti-war constituency!) were shouting at her. And she did this as they were starting to shout "no more war" and disrupt her own town hall meeting. The "disruptors" quote was in reference to her admiration of Franklin Roosevelt, whom she called a "disruptor." She said she's a great fan of "disruptors," people who shake up the system. She wasn't talking about town hall disruptors.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You've willfully distorted the facts so that you can further your own argument. If you have a valid argument at all then it will stand on its own. You don't need the lies.

Stalin's political prisoners in Siberia cried when they heard he died. Obviously Russians are a different breed than Americans.

What, all of them? And I have no idea what you're trying to say wrt Russians.

[Captain Oates 911]

Pretty sure you haven't been to THE Odessa then. It's a beautiful city, lots to do, and a main tourist destination for many Eastern Europeans. There are problems and eye sores just like any Eastern European city, but overall I think it compares pretty favorably to any other modern EU city.

The Odessa I went to was via Istanbul. I then flew north over the Black sea and landed at a horrible little airport with concrete huts and grass growing in the concrete runway. The communist style security was oppressive. Many women in town were 5 foot 10" and 90lbs and had tiny heads like cheetahs and very tall heels. It was the stinkiest and most run down and dangerous place I have ever been. The Lada taxi had no windscreen or carpets - just a steel floor with holes in. I was a prisoner in Saudi etc and even that felt safer.

I could see that around 1900 it had been quite a city and I went to the opera house etc and saw its former glory - but not now. The gutters were full of weeds and the roofs had holes in them where the pigeons flew in and out. I would rather go to the back streets in Jamaica where I would feel safer (done that too)

I guess if I had been with a young lady who was all over me I would have thought it a glorious setting - but I had my eyes open. I was woken up at 3am by a man's terrified screams - a gang had burst into his hotel room (next to mine) and they were torturing him - it went on a long time

I went to East Berlin before the wall came down and that seemed quite well off compared to Odessa

Sorry if this doesn't suit the Ukrainians who are understandably proud of their dim and distant past, like the Brits are of their Empire, but I had to leave England to gain a more objective perspective of England, and I call countries as I see them and not according to loyalties which cause biased reporting

Back to the subject - for residents of somewhere like that to be given the chance of living in the West, it would 'add to' the attraction of the person who got them out. Love has many inputs and gratitude for getting them out of there is a legitimate part of love so long as it isnt the sole reason or a temporary 'using' of the person. If part of loving somone is because they saved you from a horrible life and made you feel safe and secure for the first time, I see that as entirely genuine - more meaningful than loving them for their perky chubbies and sensuous hands and love of animals or whatever we love people for

So there is a line as to what is genuine, but if having a nice new life is simply a 'part' and not the whole of it, then that's genuine in my book. I reckon the GI brides of world war 2 wanted out of the poverty of bombed out London and it was a factor in the attraction to their American husbands

We need to get real about all this and not be so lofty about Hollywood style love which is more about vaseline smeared camera lenses than the real world where people marry to escape loneliness and sexual frustration and Odessa and a lot of things - and genuinely think the world of the person who saved them and genuinely 'love' them for it

Edited August 19, 2009 by saywhat

[Brad and Vika 129]

Pretty sure you haven't been to THE Odessa then. It's a beautiful city, lots to do, and a main tourist destination for many Eastern Europeans. There are problems and eye sores just like any Eastern European city, but overall I think it compares pretty favorably to any other modern EU city.

The Odessa I went to was via Istanbul. I then flew north over the Black sea and landed at a horrible little airport with concrete huts and grass growing in the concrete runway. The communist style security was oppressive. Many women in town were 5 foot 10" and 90lbs and had tiny heads like cheetahs and very tall heels. It was the stinkiest and most run down and dangerous place I have ever been. The Lada taxi had no windscreen or carpets - just a steel floor with holes in. I was a prisoner in Saudi etc and even that felt safer.

I could see that around 1900 it had been quite a city and I went to the opera house etc and saw its former glory - but not now. The gutters were full of weeds and the roofs had holes in them where the pigeons flew in and out. I would rather go to the back streets in Jamaica where I would feel safer (done that too)

I guess if I had been with a young lady who was all over me I would have thought it a glorious setting - but I had my eyes open. I was woken up at 3am by a man's terrified screams - a gang had burst into his hotel room (next to mine) and they were torturing him - it went on a long time

I went to East Berlin before the wall came down and that seemed quite well off compared to Odessa

Sorry if this doesn't suit the Ukrainians who are understandably proud of their dim and distant past, like the Brits are of their Empire, but I had to leave England to gain a more objective perspective of England, and I call countries as I see them and not according to loyalties which cause biased reporting

Back to the subject - for residents of somewhere like that to be given the chance of living in the West, it would 'add to' the attraction of the person who got them out. Love has many inputs and gratitude for getting them out of there is a legitimate part of love so long as it isnt the sole reason or a temporary 'using' of the person. If part of loving somone is because they saved you from a horrible life and made you feel safe and secure for the first time, I see that as entirely genuine - more meaningful than loving them for their perky chubbies and sensuous hands and love of animals or whatever we love people for

So there is a line as to what is genuine, but if having a nice new life is simply a 'part' and not the whole of it, then that's genuine in my book. I reckon the GI brides of world war 2 wanted out of the poverty of bombed out London and it was a factor in the attraction to their American husbands

We need to get real about all this and not be so lofty about Hollywood style love which is more about vaseline smeared camera lenses than the real world where people marry to escape loneliness and sexual frustration and Odessa and a lot of things - and genuinely think the world of the person who saved them and genuinely 'love' them for it

I think I see your point about getting real - seeing love for all that it is, instead of some fantasy. As for the rest - I have to call bullsh1t on you I have been to Odessa four times (twice with my wife, and twice without). Enjoyed it each time. It is a different environment than a typical vacation, granted, but still quite nice. There are good and bad areas like most cities. Maybe my perception is different, as I enjoyed Bucharest, Minsk, Warsaw, and many other cities too.

I should also mention that most people I have met in Eastern Europe have no desire to be saved somehow by leaving. They are quite content in their own country. Hard to believe, but lots of people outside the US actually like their country . Many immigrants actually do leave to be with their SO - that is the benefit they see.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Brad and Vika

[mox 298]

I should also mention that most people I have met in Eastern Europe have no desire to be saved somehow by leaving. They are quite content in their own country. Hard to believe, but lots of people outside the US actually like their country . Many immigrants actually do leave to be with their SO - that is the benefit they see.

Exactly my experiences too Brad.

[Captain Oates 911]

I think I see your point about getting real - seeing love for all that it is, instead of some fantasy. As for the rest - I have to call bullsh1t on you I have been to Odessa four times (twice with my wife, and twice without). Enjoyed it each time. It is a different environment than a typical vacation, granted, but still quite nice. There are good and bad areas like most cities. Maybe my perception is different, as I enjoyed Bucharest, Minsk, Warsaw, and many other cities too.

I should also mention that most people I have met in Eastern Europe have no desire to be saved somehow by leaving. They are quite content in their own country. Hard to believe, but lots of people outside the US actually like their country . Many immigrants actually do leave to be with their SO - that is the benefit they see.

I may be out of date in that people were prepared to be shot in their attempts to cross the Berlin wall etc to freedom and I believe the West is very attractive to Easterners. I worked with many Poles and none of them wanted to go back. They just wanted to marry an Italian or Irish catholic and stay in the UK

Ok the political thing is different now but 600,000 Poles just rushed to live in the UK.

So I am not on board with the idea that Eastern Europeans don't find the idea of moving to the West to be attractive

The last American to enjoy living in Russia was Lee Harvey Oswald and that didn't last

I wonder how many East European/American marriages result in the couple living in Eastern Europe

There has to be a reason for that. It's nearly always an East European woman and an American man

Many British men marry American women but how many American women marry Vietnamese men or Ukrainian men or men from Moscow ? I am sure there are some but not many

I am not saying anything is wrong with that by that way - it's just the way it is and for a reason (a number of reasons) and that's fine by me. Had I not been married I might well have taken that route myself in my parner search. I actually took my American bride to the UK to live and she had a UK green card and a job there - but she didnt like it and so here we are in the U.S. and it's fine by me.

I don't see any of this stuff bordering on immigration fraud and I think the conditions in many countries are an added incentive, and I don't see a problem in admitting that either to ourselves or the USCIS

If some 70 year old toothless lonely gimmer gets a beautiful 29 year old bride from a horrible steaming sweat shop in a dangerous dirty poverty stricken city and they are both deliriously happy with what they both got out of it and value each other enormously, then I say good luck to them and well done. It's 'the market ' at work and all Americans and Margaret Thatcher are in favour of that

I think it's great that people have options and possibilities to escape their situations whatever or wherever they are and 'love' per the USCIS field manual is indefinable anyway

Good luck to all of us