Nathan Alden, Sr.

Hi, folks. I just got back from the Philippines on a nearly one-month-long trip where I met my wonderful Filipina girlfriend in person. We got married in a Utah County ceremony, similar to many others here. Now, it's apparently time to deal with gross bureaucracy. She and I are both emotionally drained from the sheer complexity of what is to come with regards to her emigrating to the US. The unpredictable, extremely long timings combined with interdependence of various stages of the full process have our heads spinning. I have been busy reading several threads here on VisaJourney in an attempt to discover just what awaits us, even more than I had before deciding to marry her. I have so many questions to ask. I don't expect miracles, of course, but if anyone can help, we would both greatly appreciate it. I will number the specific questions I have throughout my post for easy reference in answers. Also, I'm open to a more conversational approach in private message if anyone is interested in that. It's my hope that this thread can help others in the future by taking a holistic approach to the complexity of the process, rather than asking each question in an individual thread. Thank you in advance for any replies! Name Change I am aware of the Philippine custom of middle names. However, my bride's maiden name is her father's family name, but her father has not been in her life since she was very young. She would prefer to drop his name altogether and keep her mother's maiden name as her middle name, instead. I'd read information some time ago that the Philippine government can be ornery about changing certain parts of one's name. I've also read that despite a Philippines Supreme Court ruling, some Philippine government agencies do not allow a married woman to not use her husband's family name, implying she should immediately adopt my family name. All things being equal, my wife prefers to use my family name as soon as possible. She currently has a national ID in her maiden name but she does not yet have a passport. I've read threads here on VisaJourney that recommend getting a passport in her married name. Another complexity is that her middle name is a misspelling of her mother's maiden name. Using pseudonyms to protect her privacy, here are the names in question: Her mother's maiden name is Smith Her biological father's family name is Roberts My bride's current full name is Mary Smyth Roberts (as stated on her birth certificate) My family name is Alden My bride's preferred new name is Mary Smith Alden She is about to undertake a few important steps now that we are married that probably should be done with her new name, if possible: Submit information on Form I-130/I-130A/I-129F Open a bank account Apply for a passport Begin the Report of Marriage process Q1.1: Should we begin using her preferred new name before filing the name change with the Philippine government? Does the answer to this question differ per task? Q1.2: Should we use her preferred new name as the "current spouse's legal name" and "beneficiary's current legal name" on Form I-130, providing her former name as an additional name? Q1.3: Will it lead to problems if we do not follow the Philippine tradition of adopting her maiden name as her new middle name? Philippine Passport My bride has a passport appointment scheduled for later this month. Are there any gotchas we should be concerned about? She already has proof of identity and citizenship in the form of a national ID and a new-issuance birth certificate (she just picked this up from the PSA yesterday). Q2.1: Should she use her preferred new name on the passport application? She will have to update her application if the answer is yes. Philippine National ID My bride's national ID currently lists her maiden name with a relationship status of Single. Q3.1: Should she update her national ID to immediately reflect her preferred new name and marital status? Q3.2: Will old information on her national ID hinder us with other stages of the process (i.e., opening a bank account, applying for a passport, etc.)? Form I-130/I-130A I began filling out Form I-130 electronically (USCIS supports online filing for Form I-130), as well as Form I-130A, as soon as I got back to the US. So far, this has been going smoothly. We gathered ample photo evidence of my time there, including before, during, and after the marriage ceremony. I had my mother sign an affidavit expressing her support, and my bride's mother is in the process of doing the same. My bride is also opening a Philippine bank account tomorrow with the goal of adding me as a joint account holder. We aren't sure how simple this will be, but it's likely easier than the reverse because unlike me she doesn't yet have a passport. It seems USCIS really values actual hard evidence that a new combined life is being lived (i.e., shared financials, property ownership, etc.) so I'll be submitting this as evidence. Q4.1: For Form I-130 "Additional proof of marriage," is it advisable to include the photos we gathered of my time in the Philippines? I know this is important for the K-1 process but the Form I-130 instructions seem to only be concerned with "relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union." I've read conflicting advice on VisaJourney that sometimes says to submit more evidence than necessary but other times says to submit only what they ask for. Q4.2: For Form I-130 "Proof of legal name change," is our marriage certificate by itself enough proof, or do we also need to submit documentation resulting from her changing her name officially with the Philippine government? Q4.3: For Form I-130A "Your Full Name," should I use my bride's preferred new name? Form I-129F It's bizarre to me that this form is required for us considering it's called "Petition for Alien Fiancé(e)," but that's bureaucracy. If I am understanding the instructions properly, I should wait before Form I-130 has reached NOA1 before submitting Form I-129F. Q5.1: Are my conclusions correct? Certificate of No Marriage (CENOMAR) My bride has never been married. I've advised her to obtain this certificate as soon as possible. The Philippines is currently unaware of her marriage to me, so hopefully that doesn't cause any problems later. Q6.1: Should I submit CENOMAR as evidence with Form I-130? Q6.2: Should I submit CENOMAR as evidence with Form I-129F? Report of Marriage I only just discovered this morning about the seemingly onerous Report of Marriage process imposed by the Philippine government. Sadly, I was unaware of this process or its potential necessity until after I left the Philippines. The threads here on VisaJourney are confusing to read as they mostly seem to ask procedural questions rather than more general purpose questions. Sadly, it seems like the sheer volume of marriages taking place in Utah County has overwhelmed some of the governmental agencies in charge of processing these new relationships. I saw in one thread that it can take up to a year for the Report of Marriage to be fully processed, but some others were saying it's effectively four months as of now. I am of the mind that we would be wise to begin this process immediately, but I cannot return to the Philippines anytime soon to be there for in-person notarization of signatures, etc. I read here on VisaJourney that Report of Marriage is not needed for the Form I-130 process but may be needed for the NVC process. Q7.1: Should we begin the Report of Marriage process immediately? Q7.2: Should my bride hire a lawyer to help guide us through this process, or is the advice given by people here on VisaJourney reliable enough? Q7.3: Will I need to mail original/certified copies of certain documents (e.g., an apostilled Utah County marriage license) to the Philippines? Q7.4: Is the electronic version of the Utah County marriage license acceptable as an apostilled copy? I read in a thread that it was due to the use of a "Titan Seal," but I'd like confirmation of this. I'm not sure how the Philippine government will feel if I give them a PDF or a printed PDF instead of something issued by Utah County physically. Q7.5: Can we split notarization between the Philippines and the US by mailing documents back and forth? K-3 Visa Q8.1: From what I can tell, K-3 processing times are just as long as the other related visas (K-1, CR1, IR1). Is it even worth applying for this given the insane NVC and consulate backlogs? Psychology I am reading that due to the insane backlogs at the NVC and Manila consulate, it is now taking upward of two years from the time Form I-130 is submitted to the time my bride can actually be with me permanently in the US. She and I are finding this very difficult to handle psychologically. We love each other, as I'm sure all of you love your spouses. We try and stay in communication every day but the time zone differences can make it difficult to find large amounts of contiguous time for each other. We are both extremely frustrated that illegal immigrants get to pour over the US border, illegally apply for asylum, and sit around enjoying welfare benefits and free housing for years waiting for their cases to be heard; meanwhile, she and I are very anxious about all the bureaucratic processes we're exposed to and the long timelines just to do things legally. Q8.1: How do/did you all cope with this? What strategies can we employ to survive the next two years apart? Q8.2: I recall reading at some point that US immigration had a mandate to reduce backlogs to at-longest six months; however, the insane backlogs and delays seem to be getting worse over time. Is there any hope for US immigration to fix itself? Is there legislation in the works to tackle this problem or is it a question of funding? Other Concerns Q9.1: I'm trying to get the fullest-possible picture of the complexities of the next two years. Are there other concerns I'm missing or should be aware of?

I understand. I've read all the same stories that you have. I'm not letting emotions or imagination carry me away, believe me. Thank you for the advice; it is appreciated. 😊

Thanks. I am intimately familiar with the rest of the bureaucratic nonsense, sadly. What a nightmare. "No, you are NOT allowed to love one another easily!" Government.

I see. This is super interesting information to learn. If I may: what are the lead times on these Utah weddings? How much time would I want to leave myself before starting that process? Optimally, we would be together in the Philippines the entire time to reduce the complexity.

Ahh, I see. So essentially, fully remote experiences are not allowed. I understand now. Thanks!

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to say. Is there some additional requirement that Utah places on these online weddings? How does that relate to the CR1?

Can you explain this? I was unaware this was a thing. Are you referring to the "meet at least once in person in the last two years" requirement?

Already in the works, my dude!

I'm not planning a wedding right now, folks. Calm down! She and I are discussing possibilities only. We want to be aware of the choices we have if things go the way we think they will. That's all.

@widude Absolutely. For me personally, the K-1 process based on one meeting is by far the better option. I am being sensitive to her cultural needs, however, where marriage comes with various stipulations, expectations, and rituals. It's proving to be a complicated dance, for sure. It really comes down to her and how logistical instead of cultural/emotional she wishes to make the process.

Yes, I agree with you comment on the CR1 being easier--notably because of the immediate issuance of a conditional green card. I was unaware that online weddings were a thing. I will definitely look into that!

Hi, all. I've lurked here for awhile and recently registered for an account. I, a US citizen, met a great Filipina online and I plan to travel soon to meet her for 30 days (maximum allowed stay without a travel visa). We have been discussing the logistics of marriage since we are both very serious about one another and it helps to know if there's even a possibility to pull it off in the future should we get along in person the way we think we will. However, after extensive research on my part, I've discovered that the requirements for marriage in the Philippines seem to be far more onerous, drawn out, and bureaucratic than most states in the US. There are lengthy delays to receive permission to marry, affidavits may have to be signed depending on the Filipina's age, and the US government doesn't provide "right to marry" documentation, meaning I myself have to sign an affidavit, for which I've found conflicting information online about where and when I would have to do that. Marriage counseling also seems to be a thing. From a purely logistical perspective, am I correct in concluding that all else being equal the K-1 process is far simpler than the CR1 process? Most US states require just a few things from a foreigner to participate in marriage: proof of identity (passport), proof of age (original birth certificate or certified copy), and proof they are marriageable (proof of previous divorces, annulments, etc.) Additionally, the only reason I am able to entertain visiting the Philippines for 30 days to begin with is because I do not currently work. The moment I get a job (I work in tech), it's likely my employer will effectively prevent me from taking long trips overseas, thus increasing the logistical difficulties. I am anxious to hear from other people here who may have faced this same decision. How did you make your decision? What problems did you run into? What would you recommend we do in our situation?

Ah, I see. As you can see, my account is new. I'm still learning about this labyrinthine process. Good luck, OP!

According to the USCIS website, they require that Form I-129F be submitted after Form I-130 for the K-3 process: It doesn't look optional to me. Now why they require this, I have no idea.