AmirNL

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

Wasn’t this addressed in your earlier thread: 

?

yes, I tried to delete that because it was about a non immigrant visa and I had to change the timeline and page. that's why

I am from Iranian descent and I left/ fled Iran about 10 years ago when I was around 20 years old. I have never served in Iranian military and I have no exemption card or military card and even no Iranian passport/ nationality anymore. 
I am wondering if the military record is a requirement document for immigrant visa? (because military service is compulsory for Iranian).
Can they refuse my immigrant visa due to that reason or not ?

By the way, I am confused by these pages below. First page is about required civil documents for immigrant spouse visa.
According to this, they literally and explicit say: "If you". So, it would not be required.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/the-immigrant-visa-process/step-5-collect-financial-evidence-and-other-supporting-documents/step-7-collect-civil-documents.html

If you served in the military of any country, you must obtain a photocopy of your military record.

This pages is about civil documents by country (Iran). I see in this page an alternate documents but I do not understand well what they mean? I only have my birth certificate, can it be enough ?

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/IranIslamicRepublicof.html

Alternate Documents: For mass exemptions, a copy of the exemption announcement and the birth certificate (proof of their condition) can be provided in lieu of exemption card.

Thank you for your opinion and help.

great. I got it. Can I ask you something ?
I think, I am in the similar situation as your husband.
Can you remember if he has been asked for military record as well or not? 
I am not an Iranian anymore for about 10 years. I left my country when I aged 20 years without serving in military and I have been denied recently on B2 visa due to military record. 
I am wondering having military record is a requirement for immigrant visa or not? 

Thank you so much

45 minutes ago, jan22 said:

Technically, I think the OP was asking whether it needed an "apostille" -- an authentication of the seals and signatures on government-issued documents such as birth and marriage certificates, etc.  The answer quoted above is correct -- as long as the document submitted meets the requirements outlined for the particular country as listed in the State Department website (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country.html), it needs no further authentication.

thank you 

On 3/7/2022 at 11:45 PM, SteveInBostonI130 said:

Legalized?

 

Do you mean notarized?  If so, you do not need notarized documents, just official documents from the relevant government departments/ministries/agencies.

yeah... I got it , thank you

what documents should be legalized for CR1 ? birth certificate, marrigae cerificate ... ?

Thank you,

I am wondering, is it optional or is it a must ? According to https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/IranIslamicRepublicof.html
Does anyone have experience with it ? I am afraid if I do not provide it my case will be extended and delayed. 
Despite what official website says. It says literally: " Police records are not required for immigrant visa applicants". 
I just read on this forums that they ask for it when you are filling certain from and when you need to mail civil documents.

(Police Certificates
Available
Comments:  Available but unreliable.  Police records are not required for immigrant visa applicants because posts cannot verify them.  Clean record certificates can be obtained in Iran or from Iranian Embassies and Consulates, and the physical appearance of the certificate changes significantly depending on which authority issued it.

Court/Prison Records
Available
Comments: Available but unreliable. Court and prison documents are not required because posts cannot verify them. 

Thank you so much,
 

17 minutes ago, African Zealot said:

Immigrant visas are handled differently. I doubt they can use that reason to keep you out if you’re applying as a spouse however my advice is to see what other Iranians did. Once you can document that there is no possibility anymore to buy your military service off I am sure that will no longer be a criteria to deny you. Everyone including western government officials know it’s practically impossible to renounce Iranian citizenship.

I know a few people who got their visa with the same situation as mine and I know even someone who got his greencard. So, I am gonna see. I do not give up anyway. 

4 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I have never heard of anyone immigrating need to buy their military service out from some other country

me neither. people hear the reason of my denial and they are open mouthed.

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

Well she applies, a lot of good information on here about the process.

yeah. I think I will. this platform looks amazing and enough good people 

Just now, AmirNL said:

No, not yet. I do not need K1 visa at all. I can apply for CR1 by end of this year.

I am afraid. because of this refusal that they are gonna refuse my CR1 visa as well but some people say, CR visa is different than B2 

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

Has your GF filed a K1?

No, not yet. I do not need K1 visa at all. I can apply for CR1 by end of this year.

11 hours ago, millefleur said:

No, I think you misunderstood. What country are you in now? Does that country have an Iranian embassy? The idea is that you, as an Iranian citizen, can go there and ask about this military record. But if you're saying you fled the country and never served in the military, maybe they will not help you anyway.

 

Well, if that is the case and you cannot furnish this document, you will probably not get a visa until the Iranian military is removed from the list.

I am afraid of this... It is never going to happen. everything and politic relationship gets worse daily between these countries.

6 hours ago, African Zealot said:

To attempt to answer your question, just be aware the real reason is she’s not inclined to approve your visa and had to find a reason. Asking for the military exemption card is just a convenient way to refuse you. There’s no guarantee she will issue you a visa even if you’re able to do so.

 

Your argument that you no longer have Iranian citizenship is moot to her, she knows Iranian immigration law that you remain an Iranian citizen. Provide her the information she wants (which she knows you cannot) and get your visa. You’re in a classic loop 🔁 situation.

 

Forget about getting a USA visa is my advice to you. The adjusted refusal rate for Iranian citizens is 86% so your chances are already bleak even without this complication. The reality is the USA doesn’t want Iranians visiting.

 

 

I know. it is true what you say. I have had the feeling that the reason was something else.
But I am wondering what if I wanna live there with my American girlfriend. Would they still look for a reason to refuse my visa ?

3 hours ago, JeanneAdil said:

You also need to understand the Dutch rules

If you have more than one nationality, it is not always clear what your rights are. For instance, your country of origin may require you to do compulsory military service. The Dutch government wants to limit dual nationality as much as possible. If you have only one nationality, it will be clear what your rights are. That is why people who want to acquire Dutch nationality through naturalisation are, as a rule, required to give up their other nationality if possible. This is called the renunciation requirement.

 

It is up to every country to decide when their nationals lose their nationality. Greek and Iranian nationals, for example, cannot give up their nationality: it is not legally possible

 

https://www.government.nl/topics/dutch-nationality/dual-nationality

true. my issue is that I am Dutch but American embassy does not treat me as a Dutch citizen. that is frustrating... 
I am pretty sure they know this rule you just mentioned. there are certain countries that do not agree this rules like Iran

56 minutes ago, Timona said:

 

Is this legal?

Yes, it is. All information about this exemption is on the official website of Iranian Embassy. depends on your past, history and criminal record of course, you can get a special passport and you can enter the country for a determined period of 3 month. But there are stories about people who tried and got stuk and caught there. So, it is a risky step

1 hour ago, millefleur said:

I understand that but plenty of countries have an obligatory draft and plenty of draft dodgers successfully apply for and get B visas without ever being asked for the military records. I think it's probably specific to Iran and for some reason the US gov't has flagged this, I've never heard of it happening in the RUB countries (all of which have conscription.)

Well, I googled it little bit. The reason can be because of Iranian military is listed and marked as a terrorist organization since 2019 by Donald Trump and then by Joe Bidon. So, they need to make sure. If I have served for military or not... !!!!!!!!! But in my case, I did not even serve. I left the country. I fled the country and never back... 

1 hour ago, JeanneAdil said:

According to Iran's constitution, all men over 18 years old must serve in the military for about two years

 

Iran says all the expats who haven’t served their compulsory conscription can pay €15,000 ($17,000) to buy their freedom from military service.

A member of the budget committee in the Iranian parliament, Mohammad-Reza Mirtajodini, said the plan only includes the absentees who are living abroad and at least five years have passed from their conscription due date.

I know this rules but since 2019 there is no possibility anymore to buy your military service off ! The funny thing is, people without military card can apply for passport and enter the country under certain conditions but it is very risky. I am not the only one. I know so many Iranian abroad without military service card! 

2 hours ago, millefleur said:

This is indeed strange, I've never come across a 212(G) for a tourist visa here on VJ. It must be a country specific thing to Iran. If you are a dual citizen, you must show some kind of paper or card or whatever they want to see. Did you contact the Iranian embassy in your country to see if they can help?

Well, I do not think they can or they do. relationship between Iran and America is very bad. there is no American embassy in Iran. and I do not think Iran would answer them 
 

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

That is very odd. not come across this before or why it would be relevant

I know! I am still in shock that I have been refused for that reason !

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

Presumably you were given a 214b refusal

no, 212 (G) 
she said, if you can prove that you have served in military or you have been exempted, we can issue your visa! all I need, she marked and wrote on the paper she gave to me !!!!

Just now, Boiler said:

So on your DS160 you declared your Iranian citizenship?

Yes, I had to 

Because they ask, have you ever had another nationality ! and where were you born ... so, they knew already...

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

Did you declare your Iranian citizenship?

No, I have no Iranian passport anymore ! She asked for it too! 
She doubted my Iranian nationality as well because I heard her saying that to her colleague and her colleague said: "you can call a Iranian translator to check my Iranian accent and language'

1 minute ago, millefleur said:

If you're still considered a dual national with Iran, then you may have to provide it. Did you ever formally renounce Iranian citizenship?

Yes, I did. I told her. 
her problem and her point was
Iranian men must have military service card or exemption card. This is security issue and this is visa related condition ! 
She did not believe that I did not even serve ! I explained her that I fled the country ! I have no Iranian passport or nationality anymore ! I have got only Dutch and you can see it 

3 minutes ago, millefleur said:

That's a good point. Just because you haven't had a passport for 10 years doesn't mean you are still not a citizen of that country. If you did not formally renounce it or have it revoked, you are still considered a citizen.

Well, according to Iranian law and rules, Because I was born there, I am an Iranian and I remain an Iranian for ever and it has nothing to do with other nationality. Iran is one of the countries in the world that has this rule and Iran does not accept dual nationality

1 hour ago, Jorgedig said:

That was not the reason for the denial, even if it seemed to be so.

 

1 hour ago, millefleur said:

If they didn't accept the explanation that you simply cannot access this card, I'm not sure what the solution is.

 

What was the official reason for the denial? Did they give you a piece of paper with an explanation?

Most B denials are due to immigrant intent.   Having an Iranian background could also impact the decision.

Yeah, she gave me a paper and she asked again for military service card or military exemption card !?
I said, I never served in military , so how can I get that  !? 
She said, think about it !!!