visacats

Forgot I'd started this thread. I moved to the US in 2023, so I'm now looking at my first year of filing US taxes. Nightmare. Basically, I have found that searching for this tends to bring up accountancy websites who form an opinion that Kiwisaver is a foreign trust and 3520 and/or 3520A must be filed. In addition, the funds that Kiwisaver invests in may be considered PFICs triggering form 8621, which looks like a complicated form to complete and may also mean that Kiwisaver gains are taxed punitively. It appears that the IRS created an exemption for forms 3520/3520a for foreign trusts that are formed for the purpose of retirement saving. See section 5.03 of Rev. Proc 2020-17 https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-20-17.pdf. However, it appears that Kiwisaver does not technically meet all of those criteria, as (1) there is not a contribution limit that I'm aware of and (2) individuals can make contributions from non-employment sources. So it appears Kiwisaver does not match the criteria of 5.03(3) and 5.04(4). There are good examples of this type of analysis here: https://www.nzustax.com/lets-take-a-deep-dive-into-kiwisaver/ and here https://cloudtax.co.nz/articles/10/08/20/kiwisaver-and-us-tax But these articles are all written by people who want expat business, and in my view there's a clear motivation for them to explain how complicated things are in order to encourage people to use their services. Part of the claim is that the US-NZ tax treaty does not deal with Kiwisaver. But I think it does. Looking at the US-NZ tax treaty for pensions, it says: -- https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/newzld.pdf So what's the definition of a pension? In 2008 the US-NZ tax treaty was updated to with a new protocol, which includes a definition of pensions: -- https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/Treaty-NewZealand-Protocol-12-1-2008.pdf There is an additional technical explanation document which was published alongside the 2008 protocol, which states: -- https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/Treaty-NewZealand-Protocol-TE-11-6-2009.pdf So my read of this is: 1. pension funds established in a state (NZ or US) are only taxable in the state (as per 1982 tax treaty) 2. Kiwisaver is explicitly defined as a pension fund in the 2008 protocol and technical explanation documents. Seems pretty clear to me. At the moment, although I am still researching this, I am intending to declare my Kiwisaver on FBAR and form 8938 (so I will still be fully disclosing my global financial position) but not complete forms 3520/3520 or go down the 8621 PFIC rabbit hole because I believe the US-NZ tax treaty explicitly protects Kiwisaver from taxation by the US.

Understood, thanks for clarifying. And actually as of 1 Jan 2023 it appears it's now $100 for the first infraction, if I am interpreting this correctly: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=40000.10. For the avoidance of doubt, my intention remains to comply with CA law, but I've found this thread very useful and I appreciate the contributions from everyone.

So I'm not a lawyer, and I'd like to believe what you've written here, but I don't think what you've said is correct from a reading of the California vehicle code. Not trying to be picky but it is a confusing area and I think it's good for the facts to be out there. My understanding is basically that: You must have a license issued under the California Vehicle Code to drive in California, unless you have an exemption. See 12500(a): https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=12500. One exemption to the above is that you are a non-resident of California, holding a valid foreign-issued license. See 12502(a)(1): https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=12502. If you are driving in CA on a foreign license under an exemption, such as a non-resident using a foreign license (12502(a)), and you then become a resident, you may continue to operate a motor vehicle in CA under that excemption for a max of 10 days. See 12500(c): https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=12505. So from a legal point of view it seems (unfortunately) pretty clear to me actually. You are exempt from the requirement to have a CA license if you are a non-resident with a valid foreign license. Once you become a resident, that exemption expires after 10 days and my reading of that is your foreign license is thus no longer legally valid in CA. Whether it's practical or sensible law in the scenario we're talking about, or whether it would be likely to be enforced if an individual could demonstrate they had taken all practical steps to obtain the license as quickly as possible, is of course up for debate but won't be solved on here. There is also the question of course as to when a new arrival becomes a resident, but all else equal I think crossing the border on an immigrant visa and travelling to a spouse's abode with the intent of living there will count. I do think it's unreasonable that there isn't some kind of grace period for new arrivals who have other barriers such as SSN and just the lack of DMV availability within 10 days, especially for the drivers test, but so it goes...

@Mike E on reflection, my response above was probably a bit terse. Sorry about that.

Thanks, so in response to your points: Visit SSA office again: yes, that's my plan A at the moment SSN card: yes it appears CA DMV relaxed this requirement a year or two back, so I only need to give them the number - and they can verify it electronically on their side, see here In CA there doesn't seem to be any legal subtlety for new immigrants/lack of SSN. Basically, you need a valid CA license to drive in CA unless you meet a specified set of exemptions. One of those exemptions is that you're not a resident, in which case out of state/overseas licenses are okay. There are others, but the only statute addressing new residents is that you have to get a CA license within 10 days (calendar or business not specified). I've reviewed the vehicle code and it does seem pretty black and white. Whether this is a real practical matter is another question; I have read accounts of people falling foul of it, hence the anxiety. In practice I would say it's something that's been written mostly with people arriving from other US states in mind, who can just swap their license, and just doesn't really address the extra complexity of people arriving without an SSN etc.

I wasn't asking you to advise me on how to break Cali law. The point of my post is to avoid that - hence my actual question, which is asking if there are ways to obtain the SSN to try to reduce delays in the situation that I'm already in. If you aren't inclined to share, fine. Re: AB60 - there is no inconsistency. As I said, I acknowledge your point that that it would be faster due to the lack of SSN. However, the wider issue appears to remain, as I would still have to take a driving test once I have my AB60 permit, as I currently have a non-US license. And there are no driving test appointments available within the next 14 days in any of the DMVs I can find, or at least none that I can reasonably get to (i.e. 2-3 hours each way) assuming that someone with a full CA license will need to drive with me to get there. So even if I had obtained an AB60 on the day I applied, I would still be in the same boat, i.e. unable to get a CA license within 10 days - although perhaps not for as long.

Yes, I appreciate that re: VJ terms of service. Very frustrating that I can drive here legally for a year as a non-resident on the same license, but once I become a resident I only have 10 days to get a new one, and it appears that this is literally impossible to do as a new arrival. Argh. So back to my original question - does anyone have insight as to my chances of getting hold of my SSN from an SSA office before it shows up in the mail? Realise there won't be a hard and fast rule on this or formal knowledge.

The AB60 doesn't seem much quicker - it does have the advantage of bypassing the SSN requirement but as I'm coming from out of country I will still need to do the driving test regardless and DMV are telling me it's probably a couple weeks lead time for appointment availability. So I'd be in the same boat, I think, albeit for potentially a slightly shorter time. I'd be interested in your personal experience here if you would be inclined to recount it.

Any anecdotes you are able to relay? Wife broke her ankle just before I arrived so not driving is not 100% straightforward.

Oops, writing in a rush and looking at the wrong line on the calendar. Well spotted, how embarrassing and now too late to edit. Applied for both SSN and DL on Mon 31 July, not 07 July. I take your point about the 10 day thing - I also believe that it's probably fine in real world terms for the most part. I have read a one account of someone who was pulled up for it after being stopped for a minor driving infraction (failing to yield I think, although no crash/injury), and subsequently got picked up on the license thing, but I suspect it's rare. I was more concerned about the risk of being considered technically unlicensed in CA after 10 days of residence from a vehicle insurance point of view, but my wife's insurance company has just added me to her vehicle insurance on my UK license with full knowledge that I've just moved here and am in the process of obtaining a US license, so that side of things now looks okay.

Hi, Arrived in the US (SFO) on CR1 on Fri 28 July. Applied for SSN in person at local SSA office on Mon 07 July. SSA advised that it should arrive in the mail within 2 weeks. Also applied for CA drivers license on Mon 07 July, as I understand I must obtain one within 10 days of becoming a California resident. (Have a full UK license.) Passed knowledge test, but DMV can't/won't print the driving permit until I provide them with my SSN. (I have applied for a DL that is a Real ID, which on balance may have been a poor move in the circumstances as SSN is understandably mandatory for issuing a Real ID. I am also aware that I then need to do a driving test before I'm considered fully licensed in CA, but I can't even book that test until I have the permit.) So, as it stands, the SSN is really critical for unblocking the issuing of the license. My question is: if I go down to the SSA office again with ID etc. in the next 1-2 business days, so say 5 business days after applying for the SSN, what are the chances that my SSN will have already been issued in their systems such that they can at least give me the number? I don't need to present the card to the DMV, just provide them with the accurate SSN. I'm willing to gamble with the time waiting at the SSA office if there's even a chance that they'll be able to give it to me.

Okay cool. I posted what I entered to NVC earlier in this thread, link below. Basically, NZ police vetting replied to me after I sent the form. They sent me a confirmation e-mail stating that my results had been sent to Auckland Embassy. I saved a copy of that e-mail and uploaded it to NVC, and added a note stating that I had followed the process, with a link to https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/NewZealand.html as well. Now, that worked for me. However it appears it did not work for the author of this thread, as they did the same thing as me but had some problems. (Not sure if they ever got it resolved as I didn't see any further posts.) So I think that my approach clearly works, but there's still a risk of issues.

I just completed and submitted the form itself to the e-mail address provided. Didn't provide any other documentation. I am living in the UK and don't have a New Zealand driver's license either, so I just left it blank. I specified that the relevant country was the United States and specified the US Consulate Auckland postal address. (They then forwarded it to the NVC, and NVC forwarded it to the American Embassy in London.) Can I just confirm that your parents are applying for an immigrant visa to the US from India, i.e. applying for an IR5 visa? The reason I ask is that this particular NZ police process is only for immigrant visas. If they are applying for a tourist/visitor visa then there is another process.

Hi, I have an old Kiwisaver account which is not currently receiving any contributions. I am looking to emigrate to the US later this year with a green card. It looks like the filing of this under US taxes could be complicated - does anyone here have previous experience of filing US taxes with an open Kiwisaver? How did you do it? Obviously the other option is to close it, with the forfeiture of previous government contributions (and anyway I may as yet end up back in NZ one day).

Update on this - I managed to find e-mail or online form contacts for the Auckland consulate, NVC, and London embassy, and contacted all of them. Auckland replied within a day advising that they had send the document to NVC on 9 January and that NVC confirmed receipt on 10 January. NVC subsequently replied and advised they had passed the document to London on 23 February (so a couple of months prior to my interview, which was 18 April). I haven't heard back from the London embassy, but through the course of today my appliation status in CEAC changed from Refused to Administrative Processing, and then to Issued - so all is well. In case anyone comes across this in future - my advice if dealing with the NZ police vetting process would be to get confirmation from both the Auckland consulate and from NVC that the file has been sent on to the London embassy, as I believe that if I'd had that information with me (and the date) during my interview, I might have been able to help them find it on the day. As it is, no harm done.