K1 Can Work?

[Pinay Wife 47]

Challenge and correct the information provided by a poster if you disagree with the information. Do not attack the poster personally.

Yodrak

Yodrak, I did do just that with this response "Kitzz, are you aware that each form has a section that says "Penalties: Severe penalties are provided by law for knowingly and willfully falsifying or concealing a material fact. Please don't tell people to "keep it secret" when the result could be a denial based on misrepresentation."

At the same time, I don't see any harm in pointing it out when a particular poster is obviously and consistently providing incorrect information. After all, even the moderators here cannot keep up with the amount of potentially damaging misinformation being posted on VJ these days.

Kitzz is correct. K1 can work without DHS authorization if they have SS card.

RM 00203.500 of the SSA states that:

https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203500

"C. Policy - Employment Authorization by Class of Admission

The following policy applies to employment authorization by class of admission:

1. Aliens Work Authorized Without Specific DHS Authorization

The following sections list nonimmigrants, by alien class of admission codes, who are authorized to work in the U.S. without specific authorization from DHS. The person’s I-94 will not have the DHS employment authorization stamp and the alien will generally not have an EAD.

K-1

Fiancé(e) of U.S. citizen"

If the above law has been repealed, changed or amended, I would like to see the government link that says so.

Edited August 9, 2007 by PatientlyWaiting

[kitkat1 5]

Kitzz is correct. K1 can work without DHS authorization if they have SS card.

No. Kitzz is not correct. K1s cannot work without DHS authorization. Their SS cards clearly state this. Work authorization for K1s means an Employment Authorization document -- either a stamp upon entry or EAD requested via their AOS package. SSA does not govern work authorization -- DHS does. There are tons of threads here with all of the links and correct information about this. Take some time to search for them either by keyword or by username: IQUIT and you will see that the information you posted, like so much here, is 100% incorrect.

Dr. LHA, it's up to you now to correct all of the pervasive misinformation on VJ about K1s and work authorization. I can't do it anymore.

[LaL 418]

Kitzz is correct. K1 can work without DHS authorization if they have SS card.

No. Kitzz is not correct. K1s cannot work without DHS authorization. Their SS cards clearly state this. Work authorization for K1s means an Employment Authorization document -- either a stamp upon entry or EAD requested via their AOS package. SSA does not govern work authorization -- DHS does. There are tons of threads here with all of the links and correct information about this. Take some time to search for them either by keyword or by username: IQUIT and you will see that the information you posted, like so much here, is 100% incorrect.

Correct. A K1 is incidentally work authorized, however there is no way to satisfy the I-9 without a document supporting employment authorization (ie: EAD or EA stamp at JFK). It's a broken path between what USCIS says K1'ers can do and what the I-9 requires as proof. (a K1 visa with verbiage printed out is not sufficent).

[Dr_LHA 3]

Kitzz is correct. K1 can work without DHS authorization if they have SS card.

RM 00203.500 of the SSA states that:

https://s044a90.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203500

Huh, did someone say my name? Sadly my head just exploded due to seeing someone link to the SSA website in reference to employment authorization.

Of course if that person knew what they were talking about they'd know that only the Department of Homeland Security authorizes people to work, not the SSA. Establishing work authorization is very simple, simply read the I-9 and see if you have enough evidence to prove you are legal to work. A K-1 holder with no EA stamp and a SS card that says "No authorized...DHS..blah blah.." doesn't pass this test.

Please watch out for flying brain matter.

[Pinay Wife 47]

No. Kitzz is not correct. K1s cannot work without DHS authorization. Their SS cards clearly state this. Work authorization for K1s means an Employment Authorization document -- either a stamp upon entry or EAD requested via their AOS package. SSA does not govern work authorization -- DHS does. There are tons of threads here with all of the links and correct information about this. Take some time to search for them either by keyword or by username: IQUIT and you will see that the information you posted, like so much here, is 100% incorrect.

Dr. LHA, it's up to you now to correct all of the pervasive misinformation on VJ about K1s and work authorization. I can't do it anymore.

The SS manual is clear that K1 do not need EAD for the 90-days that their I-94 is valid.

I am still waiting for you or someone to post the law which says that the SS rule is not recognized by DHS or that is has been repealed, changed or what not.

I have read IQuit's posts for two years and he was the one who suggested to arm oneself with the RM 00203.500 if one is to apply for SS number because some of the SS workers refuse to give SS numbers to K1 for the same stubborn reasoning that you have, that K1s are not authorized to work, they want EAD. No EAD, therefore no SS number. They won't listen to any challenge so you throw their own manual to them to force them to issue SS card.

I don't understand how information I quoted directly from a government post can be incorrect? Are you saying that SS is not correct?

Until I see anything in writing from a government site challenging the SS manual I quoted, I stand by my post.

Edited August 9, 2007 by PatientlyWaiting

[kitkat1 5]

You are mixing two issues.

The SSA does not govern work authorization. DHS governs work authorization. An employer is required to comply with the I-9 requirements, one of which is an Employment Authorization Document or a temporary EAD stamp received upon entry. Without it, an employer cannot legally hire a K1. Without it, a K1 cannot legally work.

The question/issue was not in regard to getting a SSN without an EAD -- an EAD is not required in order to get an SSN and no one here said that you cannot get a SSN without an EAD. As a K-1 Visa Holder you are eligible to receive a SSN upon producing a valid I-94 (unexpired). Most people wait two weeks after entry and then apply for one. This often occurs long before they apply for AOS and an EAD. Since some SSA offices have staff that are not aware that a K-1 Visa Holder is eligible to file for a SSN, IQUIT gave some great advice about what to show them to prove they are eligible. But again, this has nothing to do with work authorization.

You said "K1 can work without DHS authorization if they have SS card". Since a K1's SSN clearly says "NOT VALID FOR WORK WITHOUT DHS AUTHORIZATION" your statement is obviously incorrect.

[Pinay Wife 47]

That is strange. I posted a reply in response to Kitkat's post and now it's gone. Oh well, I can only imagine what is going on.

If you can't win an argument, press DELETE.

Thank you very much!

Edited August 9, 2007 by PatientlyWaiting

[Dr_LHA 3]

That is strange. I posted a reply in response to Kitkat's post and now it's gone. Oh well, I can only imagine what is going on.

If you can't win an argument, press DELETE.

Thank you very much!

Probably for the best because you definitely can't win that argument with kitkat: you're wrong and kitkat is right. Every so often someone comes along on VJ who thinks that they understand how Employment Authorisation works by looking at the SSA website. They ignore the fact that the SSA doesn't govern Employment Authorization, DHS does. They ignore what the I-9 says. A huge flame war begins and after a few days, they admit they were wrong.

How about us avoiding the flame war this time? Especially as this isn't remotely on topic?

The I-9 governs if you can work, take some time to download it and read its requirements, its a short and easy form to understand. Whatever the SSA says does not override it.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Dr_LHA

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

The I-9 governs if you can be EMPLOYED only. You can work all you want but you cannot be employed.

[Yodrak 7]

PatientlyWaiting,

The SSA "manual" contains the rules and regulations for who can and who cannot be issued a SS card. It does not contain the rules and regulation for who can be employed.

If you want to see the rules and regulations governing who can be employed see I-9 and USCIS manual M-274 Handbook for Employers, Instructions for Completing I-9.

Yodrak

The SS manual is clear that K1 do not need EAD for the 90-days that their I-94 is valid.

I am still waiting for you or someone to post the law which says that the SS rule is not recognized by DHS or that is has been repealed, changed or what not.

I have read IQuit's posts for two years and he was the one who suggested to arm oneself with the RM 00203.500 if one is to apply for SS number because some of the SS workers refuse to give SS numbers to K1 for the same stubborn reasoning that you have, that K1s are not authorized to work, they want EAD. No EAD, therefore no SS number. They won't listen to any challenge so you throw their own manual to them to force them to issue SS card.

I don't understand how information I quoted directly from a government post can be incorrect? Are you saying that SS is not correct?

Until I see anything in writing from a government site challenging the SS manual I quoted, I stand by my post.

[Pinay Wife 47]

PatientlyWaiting,

The SSA "manual" contains the rules and regulations for who can and who cannot be issued a SS card. It does not contain the rules and regulation for who can be employed.

If you want to see the rules and regulations governing who can be employed see I-9 and USCIS manual M-274 Handbook for Employers, Instructions for Completing I-9.

Yodrak

Thank you for your posts Yodrak and Lal. Those are the kind of answers that I am looking for.

Edited August 9, 2007 by PatientlyWaiting

[Dr_LHA 3]

Thank you for your posts Yodrak and Lal. Those are the kind of answers that I am looking for.

So you promise to stop posting wrong information as fact now?

[Yodrak 7]

Dr_LHA,

Why do I have this feeling of deja vu all over again?

Yodrak

Thank you for your posts Yodrak and Lal. Those are the kind of answers that I am looking for.

So you promise to stop posting wrong information as fact now?

[Dr_LHA 3]

Why do I have this feeling of deja vu all over again?

I was just joshing!

[Yodrak 7]

Dr_LHA,

A few months back someone was making exactly the same arguments. I thought we had got that one straightened out, and you've got me worried that PatientlyWaiting is the same person starting in again.

Yodrak

Why do I have this feeling of deja vu all over again?

I was just joshing!