LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS

[Jenn! 918]

I thought I'd bring the issue over here so as to separate it from the language thread, which was related to a specific issue. So, as Chiquita posted there, Ellis sees the red flags as:

1. A very brief courtship followed by a plunge into matrimony;

2. A marriage ceremony arranged only a short time after petitioner arrives in the beneficiary’s country and they meet for the first time;

3. No common language;

4. Petitioner resides with family members of the beneficiary in the US;

5. Petitioner is employed by or has a business relationship with a relative of beneficiary;

6. Petitioner submits phone records that show he uses a residential phone number that is listed in the name of another person.

7. US divorce followed very quickly by an engagement to foreign beneficiary is often a red flag for consular officers.

8. There is little or no documentary evidence of the relationship prior to the actual engagement.

9. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.

10. Failure to disclose previous marriages;

11. Failure to disclose previous petitions filed on behalf of other beneficiaries.

Do you have any of these red flags?

If you've already been past the interview stage, did you have any of these? Were they addressed at the interview? How did you prepare yourselves to address them? What advice would you give to others with the same red flags preparing for their interviews?

ETA: I don't think this list is comprehensive for some of the MENA consulates. What would you add?

Edited April 2, 2007 by jenn3539

[ya falaha! 0]

I guess I have #2 and #9. Also, I suppose being divorced and having two chidren from a previous marriage would also be considered red flags. None were addressed during the interview.

Edited April 2, 2007 by moody

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Thanks Jenn good idea to seperate the issues and interesting if we can actually hear some of the real happenings..... also if it tends to be one embassy always leaning towards one issue..

[doodlebug 3]

I would think that a large age gap would be on the list.

I have #s 9 and 2.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

I would personally have the age, divorce and i have only made one trip there.

None of which i can change now what??

[chiquita 0]

Great idea Jenn!

another 'red flag' is a big age difference, especially where the woman is a lot older.

many also suggest that that 'looks' are important. (sad i know)

lack of a job/education

so in theory, an older average overweight Christian woman sending money to a handsome unemployed young muscle Muslim man would be considered a few big red flags.

is that justified??? i dont think so. but it is the truth so please dont be offended. this is just the way it is.

[peezey 0]

I would personally have the age, divorce and i have only made one trip there.

None of which i can change now what??

I think chi's suggestion of getting letters from friends and family is a good place to start.

[chiquita 0]

i think some people think red flags are a joke. i am so sorry for them. why get into a relationship and know you wont be able to get through the immigration process?? i dont get it. was it really a joke on all of us here???

chi

[Jenn! 918]

i think some people think red flags are a joke. i am so sorry for them. why get into a relationship and know you wont be able to get through the immigration process?? i dont get it. was it really a joke on all of us here???

chi

I agree, chi. The whole "I laugh in the face of red flags, HA HA HA"-attitude is a little hard to swallow. But you can only help people to a certain point. The most we can do is make the issues known and hope that people will come to realize that a consular officer might not have the same impression of your relationship that you do.

[doodlebug 3]

Who's laughing at red flags?

[maggieNomar 0]

i think some people think red flags are a joke. i am so sorry for them. why get into a relationship and know you wont be able to get through the immigration process?? i dont get it. was it really a joke on all of us here???

chi

I agree, chi. The whole "I laugh in the face of red flags, HA HA HA"-attitude is a little hard to swallow. But you can only help people to a certain point. The most we can do is make the issues known and hope that people will come to realize that a consular officer might not have the same impression of your relationship that you do.

I too agree with Chi. Despite what we think, it is not our right to marry whom we choose, as stated on the other thread. We are really at the mercy of the US government and the consulate.

In addition to number 7, we have the age diff but only 10 years. Then there is the overweight divorced with kids that someone mentioned..but the only thing really addresssed at the interview was previous marriage to moroccan. Fortunately I had not petitioned a visa for him, only AOS. The best way to overcome any red flag is make sure your SO is comfortable enough to respond to any questions about it at the interview.

(no I am not mad about the overweight divorced with kids comment from another thread...I understand the point that was being made with it).

[Nasturtium 500]

I have #1 and #7. I am thinking about poeple to ask for letters, I have 26 right now in mind-- including my ex-husband LOL! We're friends. But then again that could look weird. But he could testify that were were on the rocks for a really long time.

[Henia 11]

Hello/Esalaam

Well reading throu the list, I have to say I am 2 and 9, but I think most people on this MENA will be probably be.

2. A marriage ceremony arranged only a short time after petitioner arrives in the beneficiary's country and they meet for the first time;

Well we did not met for the first time, but first time in years. Our wedding was days after my arrival in Algeria.

9. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.

We knew each othe 4 years before I ever thought to get engaged, so that gap number 1 and after our wedding and my 2 month stay in Algeria I went back to the US. Was gone for 5 months cos financial difficulties...now I am back...Hmm another "technically" could be considered a red flag issue. But elhamdullah I am back here now with my husband!

All I have to say is I know INS officers are doing their job to ensure national security (which includes yes visa fraud) but fk INS and their stupid rules. Actually fk all the bureaucracy... I have just about had enough of dealing with government offices in Europe, US and in Algeria. I went throu the INS naturalization myself for over 4 years. Neck high in it actually... then had to go throu it again getting married to my husband and applying for residency here...now all I want is my family (my husband and my child) in the US, in Europe, in Algeria wherever!

I guess the waiting period is a good thing for those who have not actually "lived" with their SO... and need to figure out really if they are compatible... unforunately many people just met, engage/marry then file... then after the fact say: Fk they are not the person I thought they were! Astagfurullah and enchallah not happening to anyone out there now...but let's face it happens. People "fall in love" while on holiday, chatting on the Net or get hooked by family/relatives ...this is life... I just wish we all, and I say this to myself too...take the time to get to know the SO, their culture, their family and country... then file. If they love you enough, they surely can wait and so can you!

When I got engaged to my husband I asked myself some very basics questions/points:

• If I were Algerian and living in DZ would he want to marry me? and vice versa
  
• What are the roles here? Who needs what from whom in the relationship?
  
• If I am willing to wait, he should too!
  
• If he is asking me to do something he would not do for me, it is fake.
  
• If he cannot do it for himself, then it is fake (in the case of the SO requiring expensive gifts and allowances.
  
• Is he following the tenets of our faith (to the point: are we both getting our rights and doing our duties?
  
• How much effort is he making? How much am I?
  
• Can we have a long term life together? Do we understand each other?
  

Many others, that just donnot come to mind now. But I think the golden rule is: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is not!

And finally even thou I know many or most people cannot afford this luxury... spent as much time as you physcially can living with your SO to get to know them. Words are dandy and nice...but without any actions to back them up...they are not worth anything!

And a little PS: I have been on board about a year...ups and downs...lots of BS, backbiting, fingerpointing and judgements calls... people and I mean alot of people have left, the good and the bad... I wish we could just all get along... swallow our egos and embrace the fact we are all in the same stinking ship here! A few bad swimmers are sure to be out there, and drown...but if we stick together SUPPORT each other (the profi veterans who been there and the ones still in the nail biting limbo waiting game)

Not everyone has prefect typing skills and grammer. Not everyone knows how to spot a fake. Not everyone is strong as nails. Not everyone is profi at their SO's culture, religion, needs, wants and esp this process... Cést la vie ladies! Allah, the God (whether you believe it or not) said there is a relief in every struggle. Without struggle nothing is even worth it! We need just look towards that brightness at the end of that tunnel, throw out the life vests for those drowing...not push them deeper into the murkiness (spelling ?) So 3x million for all of you ladies (and gents) out there. I love you all (the ones i have talked to are just fab)

You will bring that man (or women) home!!! And after all this (process) it will be so so soooooo much sweeter!

[brnidokiegurl 0]

We all know the way they look at age, we have the letters both from friends here that know of him and talk to him and friends and family there that know and saw us together. Our is not a matter of the poor young moroccan looking for a way out. Hes not THAT young and does own and run his own store so he will also have these papers to show and papers from other business men that he deals with. He knows all the details of my divorce,(s) names, dates and reasons. I have never had to send him money so that not a issue either. All these issues were addressed in the application, which went straight thru with no problems. Theres about 4 years since divorce until meeting him so no urgent meeting there either. He has Bachelor degree so education is not main prob, with knowing very good english also. THere will be pictures of us together in both the application and the album anything else to suggest....

[mybackpages 0]

We came very close to getting a denial (or intent to return the petition to USCIS) and I think the only thing that saved us was Idir's handling of the interview. This can not be underestimated.

We met in person, not online. I was in Morocco twice before sending in the petition. The petition was sent in 8 months after we first met. The interview was 13 months after meeting. We had no language barrier. So did we have red flags? not really.

But I am not fooling around when I say we were almost denied. The most important determining factor in our case was showing communication. Maybe I was too comfortable going into the interview. Certainly it was clear there was no fraud, no red flags...but the consulate has a different eye.

Idir brought in samples of e-mails, phone records, but only those from my mobile (showing calls to and from his cell and by phone card), and a few photos. Surely in my mind I had laid out the evidence they needed.

I had deleted photos using my new camera while in Morocco. We lost over 2 weeks of photos- photos with his family, photos of us together in the SAME photos! The consulate insisted on seeing more photos. Idir explain what happened. I think she believed him, but still he left thinking she wanted more photos.

We had to scramble after the interview. The 221g stated - a new court report and more evidence of communication. We printed off over 100 emails, i scaned and emailed newer phone records, I took my digital cameral card to see if any photos could be recovered and when they couldn't got a receipt stating this fact. I wrote the consualte a note about the photos and attached the reciept, and hotel reciepts to show us together in Casa (thanks god I had them) along with letters from friends who knew us as a couple. We found only one or 2 photos that we did not send in. It was an organized response- logical, rational.

It was enough to satisfy the CO and the visa was issued.

Had idir not been able to handle the interview as well as he did, I am sure we would have been one of those that saw the petition returned without the chance to submit more evidence. It would have been because we looked at our own case through our eyes and nto the eye of the consulate. Looking back afterwards, i can see what the consulate saw and do nto thik we were targeted unfairly. Of course every CO is different and ours may have just been one that wanted all the i dotted and t crossed.

No matter how confident you are that you are a legitimate couple, you can get denied.