Green card extension letter not enough for new job

[coloradogirl 0]

Hello all,

Has anyone else experienced having a job offered, doing the drug test, show up for training with all the proper documentation then being told 'we can only hire you with a current green card, we can't accept the extenstion letter'?

If this is company policy it's one I don't understand! The job is a clerk position at a large grocery store chain. We filed the I-751 back in Dec., got the NOA and his extension letter in Jan. His green card expired March 3rd. So even though this letter clearly states my husband is still eligible to work this company won't honor it. For all the good it will do I have called the 800 number on their website and got referred to their division office here in Denver. I'm now waiting for a call from their human resources dept. It's particulary aggravating because he was so looking forward to working there, well working period really! He lost his other job in Jan. when they 'scaled down' and hasn't worked all this time. He's going nuts! And making me nuts too! And does anyone know if this 'policy' is even legal? If every company had this policy of not hiring with the extension letter all these poor people would never get hired!

Thank you for reading and any input anyone might have!

coloradogirl

[Mononoke28 134]

That's odd. I thought most employers would check the status of the applicant using the A# with immigration. I hope human resources can clear it all up.

[meauxna 15]

Hello all,

Has anyone else experienced having a job offered, doing the drug test, show up for training with all the proper documentation then being told 'we can only hire you with a current green card, we can't accept the extenstion letter'?

If this is company policy it's one I don't understand! The job is a clerk position at a large grocery store chain. We filed the I-751 back in Dec., got the NOA and his extension letter in Jan. His green card expired March 3rd. So even though this letter clearly states my husband is still eligible to work this company won't honor it. For all the good it will do I have called the 800 number on their website and got referred to their division office here in Denver. I'm now waiting for a call from their human resources dept. It's particulary aggravating because he was so looking forward to working there, well working period really! He lost his other job in Jan. when they 'scaled down' and hasn't worked all this time. He's going nuts! And making me nuts too! And does anyone know if this 'policy' is even legal? If every company had this policy of not hiring with the extension letter all these poor people would never get hired!

Thank you for reading and any input anyone might have!

coloradogirl

cg,

Human Resources is not right, and I am helping you look for the right links (you can also look at uscis.gov by searching information about form I-9). Worst case scenario, you head to your District Office for an I-551 stamp.

Actually, thinking backward: Does your husband have a driver's license and social security card? Those two pieces of ID should've been sufficient to be hired with.

They are not allowed to pick and choose which evidence you present at hiring. They can NOT make you produce a 'green card' at this point.

edit to add: this is the time to GENTLY and politely educate them.

Mono: Very few employers are participating in the national database checking. The average company can not just join it, either.

Edited March 13, 2007 by meauxna

[meauxna 15]

It's not clear if the NOA would fall under the reciept rule. An argument could probably be made either way. However, there is this, which supports them not accepting the unexpired card (even though the form instructions do not stipulate an unexpired I-551 card).

About Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification

"“GREEN CARDS”

The terms Resident Alien Card, Permanent Resident Card, Alien Registration Receipt Card, and Form I-551 all refer to documentation issued to an alien who has been granted permanent residence in the U.S.. Once granted, this status is permanent. However, the document that an alien carries as proof of this status may expire. Starting with the “pink” version of the Resident Alien Card (the “white” version does not bear an expiration date), and including the new technology Permanent Resident Cards, these documents are valid for either two years (conditional residents) or ten years (permanent residents). When these cards expire, the alien cardholders must obtain new cards. An expired card cannot be used to satisfy Form I-9 requirements for new employment. Expiration dates do not affect current employment, since employers are neither required nor permitted to re-verify the employment authorization of aliens who have presented one of these cards to satisfy I-9 requirements (this is true for conditional residents as well as permanent residents). Note: Even if unexpired, “green cards” must appear genuine and establish identity of the cardholder."

Form I-9 does make clear (and the regs support this)

Employers are not permitted to request more or different documents than are required or to refuse that reasonably appear to be genuine and to relate to the individual presenting the document.

If you feel wronged, you may contact this group:

Office of Special Counsel for Immigration Related Unfair Employment Practices

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/htm/facts.htm#docs

Q. How can employers get up-to-date and accurate information?

A. OSC has a toll-free automated telephone hotline for employers: 1-800-255-8155 (1-800-362-2735 (TDD). Information is available 24 hours a day and features easy-to-follow prompts to receive prerecorded answers to common questions asked by employers.

The hotline offers callers taped information on four key subjects:

Tips on avoiding immigration-related discrimination when completing the I-9 Form;

Information on how to avoid immigration-related discrimination in hiring practices;

The penalties for employment discrimination; and

The acceptable documents that establish identity and work eligibility.

Callers who need additional information will be able to speak with an OSC representative from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Eastern Standard Time/Eastern Daylight Time. The hotline's Fax-Back option provides callers with helpful written information. Callers can key in their fax machine number, and within minutes will receive by fax a copy of the list of documents acceptable for establishing identity and work eligibility and information on the INA's anti-discrimination provisions. OSC updates the telephone system's recorded and Fax-Back information to reflect changes to the list of acceptable documents.

For more information, please contact:

U.S. Department of Justice

Civil Rights Division

Office of Special Counsel for

Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20530

General Information: 1-800-255-7688

1-800-237-2515 (TDD for hearing impaired)

Automated Employer Hotline: 1-800-255-8155

1-800-362-2735 (TDD for hearing impaired)

[coloradogirl 0]

It's not clear if the NOA would fall under the reciept rule. An argument could probably be made either way. However, there is this, which supports them not accepting the unexpired card (even though the form instructions do not stipulate an unexpired I-551 card).

About Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification

"“GREEN CARDS”

The terms Resident Alien Card, Permanent Resident Card, Alien Registration Receipt Card, and Form I-551 all refer to documentation issued to an alien who has been granted permanent residence in the U.S.. Once granted, this status is permanent. However, the document that an alien carries as proof of this status may expire. Starting with the “pink” version of the Resident Alien Card (the “white” version does not bear an expiration date), and including the new technology Permanent Resident Cards, these documents are valid for either two years (conditional residents) or ten years (permanent residents). When these cards expire, the alien cardholders must obtain new cards. An expired card cannot be used to satisfy Form I-9 requirements for new employment. Expiration dates do not affect current employment, since employers are neither required nor permitted to re-verify the employment authorization of aliens who have presented one of these cards to satisfy I-9 requirements (this is true for conditional residents as well as permanent residents). Note: Even if unexpired, “green cards” must appear genuine and establish identity of the cardholder."

Form I-9 does make clear (and the regs support this)

Employers are not permitted to request more or different documents than are required or to refuse that reasonably appear to be genuine and to relate to the individual presenting the document.

If you feel wronged, you may contact this group:

Office of Special Counsel for Immigration Related Unfair Employment Practices

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/htm/facts.htm#docs

Q. How can employers get up-to-date and accurate information?

A. OSC has a toll-free automated telephone hotline for employers: 1-800-255-8155 (1-800-362-2735 (TDD). Information is available 24 hours a day and features easy-to-follow prompts to receive prerecorded answers to common questions asked by employers.

The hotline offers callers taped information on four key subjects:

Tips on avoiding immigration-related discrimination when completing the I-9 Form;

Information on how to avoid immigration-related discrimination in hiring practices;

The penalties for employment discrimination; and

The acceptable documents that establish identity and work eligibility.

Callers who need additional information will be able to speak with an OSC representative from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Eastern Standard Time/Eastern Daylight Time. The hotline's Fax-Back option provides callers with helpful written information. Callers can key in their fax machine number, and within minutes will receive by fax a copy of the list of documents acceptable for establishing identity and work eligibility and information on the INA's anti-discrimination provisions. OSC updates the telephone system's recorded and Fax-Back information to reflect changes to the list of acceptable documents.

For more information, please contact:

U.S. Department of Justice

Civil Rights Division

Office of Special Counsel for

Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices

950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20530

General Information: 1-800-255-7688

1-800-237-2515 (TDD for hearing impaired)

Automated Employer Hotline: 1-800-255-8155

1-800-362-2735 (TDD for hearing impaired)

Meauxna,

Thank you so much for this wonderful information! He does indeed have a driver's license and social security card, and I looked at the I-9 document list and these 2 pieces of information should be more than enough, so although what is stated above about the expired cards, wouldn't the other 2 documents be enough? Well, hopefully I'll be talking to somone else today and I'll report back my findings.

Thanks again so much, I really appreciate it!

cg

[meauxna 15]

Meauxna,

Thank you so much for this wonderful information! He does indeed have a driver's license and social security card, and I looked at the I-9 document list and these 2 pieces of information should be more than enough, so although what is stated above about the expired cards, wouldn't the other 2 documents be enough? Well, hopefully I'll be talking to somone else today and I'll report back my findings.

Thanks again so much, I really appreciate it!

cg

I'm glad it was useful and hope he has no more problem completing his hiring. The only caveat about his Social Security card is that it must not have the legend on the front ('valid for employment only with' blah blah)

A no-legend SS card plus valid Driver's License are sufficient hiring documents. No need to mention or produce the Green Card.

Let us know what happens!

[coloradogirl 0]

I'm glad it was useful and hope he has no more problem completing his hiring. The only caveat about his Social Security card is that it must not have the legend on the front ('valid for employment only with' blah blah)

A no-legend SS card plus valid Driver's License are sufficient hiring documents. No need to mention or produce the Green Card.

Let us know what happens!

oops, I messed this up somehow. the above paragraph is from Meauxna, below is mine.. sorry!

No, his SS card is just a regular one without the legend. I tried GENTLY informing and educating, but they wouldn't

budge. I was told that on the I-9 form itself he would have to check one of the boxes; a citizen or national, a lawful permanent resident (Alien#) OR an alien authorized to work, so that's why they want to see an unexpired green card (no, the NOA is NOT acceptable), since he'd be checking box lawful permanent resident. So I said, ok, he puts in his alien#, it doesn't ask for proof at that point and he still has 2 ID's from List B and List C. Then I got the spiel about how Colorado is the strictest state about immigration since 9/11 and that's how it is. He'll have his new green card before this gets ironed out! So, I guess we'll go the route of I-551 stamp. I see that that is an acceptable piece of ID from List A. I spent too many hours on this, reading verbatim from the immigration-related unfair employment practices act (that did get me from person #1 to person #2 at least when I mentioned that I might have to file a complaint)! but person #2 wanted to ramble on about legislation, and colorado law and there was nothing she could do, everyone is treated the same. Anyway, I hope this will be useful/helpful for others in the same situation. Just get the I-551 stamp! Now my next question is, we've already been for biometrics, I suppose I need to call (or infopass?) for an appointment to get the stamp?

Thanks again Meauxna for all the valuable info and links, I looked at everything, even if it didn't get me very far!

cg

Edited March 13, 2007 by coloradogirl

[sparkofcreation 0]

Call the Office of Special Counsel for Immigration Related Unfair Employment Practices. (Just Google the phrase.) It's part of the Department of Justice.

It is ILLEGAL for them to ask to see his green card if he presents the other documents and a $100 fine for every employee they do that to. Usually calling the OSC and getting them to talk to the HR department should be enough.

Just went through this with my husband last week. They are SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED from asking to see any proof of anything written in Section 1 (which means they can't ask to verify the A number, the excuse my husband's job gave). They only can look at documents for section 2, and yes, a driver license and unrestricted SS card are legally sufficient.

[meauxna 15]

No, his SS card is just a regular one without the legend. I tried GENTLY informing and educating, but they wouldn't

budge. I was told that on the I-9 form itself he would have to check one of the boxes; a citizen or national, a lawful permanent resident (Alien#) OR an alien authorized to work, so that's why they want to see an unexpired green card (no, the NOA is NOT acceptable), since he'd be checking box lawful permanent resident. So I said, ok, he puts in his alien#, it doesn't ask for proof at that point and he still has 2 ID's from List B and List C. Then I got the spiel about how Colorado is the strictest state about immigration since 9/11 and that's how it is. He'll have his new green card before this gets ironed out! So, I guess we'll go the route of I-551 stamp. I see that that is an acceptable piece of ID from List A. I spent too many hours on this, reading verbatim from the immigration-related unfair employment practices act (that did get me from person #1 to person #2 at least when I mentioned that I might have to file a complaint)! but person #2 wanted to ramble on about legislation, and colorado law and there was nothing she could do, everyone is treated the same. Anyway, I hope this will be useful/helpful for others in the same situation. Just get the I-551 stamp! Now my next question is, we've already been for biometrics, I suppose I need to call (or infopass?) for an appointment to get the stamp?

Thanks again Meauxna for all the valuable info and links, I looked at everything, even if it didn't get me very far!

cg

tsk tsk on them then... Immigration and the I-9 are FEDERAL issues, and Colorado can blow it out their behind... nothing to do with each other, but clearly good for baffling folks with.

You can inform her that yes, because Colorado is so strict with their documentation, she can be assured that he has been vetted by the Colo DMV or he would not have a DL valid for longer than his status.

I said "gently" because of course you don't want to tell someone directly 'you're wrong!' and then 'can I have my job please'. It might be time to be more firm, and give them an oppty to be educated before you call the Special Office. The quote I gave you earlier is from their site, and as spark says, they are the ones to 'help" this employer understand their error (it really IS just an error, but it's an important one for your family).

forget it--on re-read I see that you DID mention a complaint to them, and they still don't understand.

Well, if it were me at this time, I would stay friendly etc with them and say that you'll get someone in touch who can explain it better than you (it's OK to eat some unearned crow when it gets you what you want....) and then pursue it. This is a service you can do for your own family and everyone who will be hired behind him. If you'd rather, there are several employer help sheets posted at uscis.gov and at ssa.gov (prolly at the Special Office site too) that explaini to them in clear detail what they can ask for and what they can not. ungh.. I know this stuff from being an employer, not because of my interest in immigration.

I believe the lovely Mr Tancredo is from your state? Who knows what poppycock nonsense he's convinced people of.

spark's got the idea, and she just had the experience. I really do hope you follow up. Sorry I'm so fired up atm, but was just listening to the radio and some real *dubbage* as one of our VJers likes to say..

[coloradogirl 0]

Well I did follow up and it's taken this long to get an answer!! I went straight away to the dept. of justice and faxed the man all the docs he wanted. It turned out though (and completely my fault!!!) that my husband's ss card indeed did have the dreaded DHS legend on it. I hadn't looked at it since he got it, these 2 years went waaaaayyyyy to fast! And of course his work permit was expired too. The man at the justice dept. called me back and told me he wasn't promising anything, but he would call all the same and see what he could do. That was last Friday when I heard from him. And just this afternoon the deparment head of human resources at the place my husband applied called and said that they WOULD accept the receipt notice of the extension letter and did he still want to work for them? His license and this notice was all they needed to complete the I-9. And the head of HR said she was handling this herself and would meet with my husband tomorrow to finish up the paperwork and get it all started. I really thought that since I screwed up nothing would come of it, but wow, it does pay to perservere! And just a side note, the woman never did tell me the justice dept.contacted her, she told me she researched this herself and found that this receipt could be accepted. I didn't say anything, if it made her feel good to play detective why not? And she said that she was soooo glad that the division office (of their company) gave her my phone number (except they didn't have my phone number....) guess who gave it to her...

I was just getting ready to call the man at the justice dept. I'd talked with when he called me to tell me the good news. I thanked him, he really was great, and soooo kind and friendly. Then he said, well, I'm an immigrant too so I know what it's like. Then he wished us both luck and told my husband to hang in there! So... it all turned out ok!

Thanks so much for your input, links and everything else. Couldn't have done it without the help you wonderful people and this site offers!!

cg

[meauxna 15]

Congratulations, coloradogirl (and Mr cg!) on your perserverence with this, and your success!

Sometimes you just have to help people to get out of their comfortable way of doing something.. you did that lady a favor!

Back to work for Mr cg now.. tell him that the guys in the meat department make the best $$$ in grocery!

[eau_xplain 2]

It turned out though (and completely my fault!!!) that my husband's ss card indeed did have the dreaded DHS legend on it.

Would be a good idea to have your husband's SS card updated to one without the DHS legend as soon as he gets his new GC.

[meauxna 15]

It turned out though (and completely my fault!!!) that my husband's ss card indeed did have the dreaded DHS legend on it.

Would be a good idea to have your husband's SS card updated to one without the DHS legend as soon as he gets his new GC.

Oh yeah... and it's a good reminder of WHY this is a Good Thing to do as soon as you get your PR status.

[coloradogirl 0]

It turned out though (and completely my fault!!!) that my husband's ss card indeed did have the dreaded DHS legend on it.

Would be a good idea to have your husband's SS card updated to one without the DHS legend as soon as he gets his new GC.

Oh yeah... and it's a good reminder of WHY this is a Good Thing to do as soon as you get your PR status.

Yes thanks! I don't know why I didn't know this before, all the reading I've done here and everywhere, it just never occured to me that had to be done. I hadn't even thought to ask about it. Well, another lesson learned and I will definitely see to getting his SS card updated when the new GC comes in. Thanks!

[wildestkabs 0]

Congratulations to the OP. This is an excellent thread. I need to add this to my favorites.