Another denial! Long story...I'm sorry!!

[brocku00 1]

Hello everyone! It's been a very long time since I've been on here and it's all because I was so bummed about my interview in AUGUST!!!

Quick History - I married my husband in 2001 and I've always lived in Canada and my spouse stays up here for a few months and then goes home (back and forth all year/every year) due to his work. Anyways, we applied in March 2008 for I130 and it was finally sent to California, approved, NVC this past March 09 and interview in August.

August 12 Interview - weird experience! He denied me that day for three reasons:

a)Didn't believe my marriage certificate was real!!!

B) Wanted a certain American tax form from my husband, which I explained he doesn't get because he is self employed

c) proof of domicile

So I was totally upset and left Montreal the same day. On the way home, I called my home answering machine and there was a message from the officer that interviwed me saying:

a) He did his own "independant" research and found out the marriage certificate was real (could have done that on the spot but any hoo)

B) And, yeah, about the tax form, I did a little more research and it seems your husband doesn't need that form (DUH, I just told you that at interview)

c) no need for proof of domicle

So then he says, we can issue you a visa, either just come back to the embassy or just mail back your passport. He left his name and number and said, "IF you have any questions please feel free to call me.

So, the next day when I got home I send my passport back. Four weeks later, I get it back with a letter stating that they now need proof of domicile!!!!! #######!!!! excuse my french

So, I had my husband send me the following: lease agreement, bank account statements, vehicle registrations, auto insurance, video store card, grocery store card, utility bills, etc (all of these were suggested by the officer) and I then sent them in. 8 weeks later I hadn't heard from them (emailed them twice...no response) so husband and I contacted Senator. The Senator sent an email and one week later I received my passport back with NO VISA and a letter saying "AMCITS MUST return to the US and establish domicile." Send in proof of re-domicile when you have it.

ARGHHHHHH!!!! I don't understand, I know my husband is up here a lot but he is just a visitor! Does the US consolute think that I want a US VISA to REMAIN IN CANADA!!! NO, I want to be with my family in the US!!!

I don't know if I said this before but the officer left me his name and number on my answering maching (when he left me the original message on August 12) and said to call him if I have any questions. Well when I called and asked him a question....he got mad at me for calling and said "This is why I don't give out my number, I have 25 cases to work on and by talking to you, I am not working on those cases!!!!" Why did he tell me to call if I had any questions??

So this has now resulted in the following: my husband has permanently left Canada (today) and will not return until my VISA is approved, he had to find employment (even though he is self employed - was told by consolute he needed a contract by another employer), he has to rent/lease a new apartment (extra costs that we don't need), open new accounts (even though he has existing ones), and establish anything possible to add to proof of domicile. I don't know what else they could want. We've been married for almost 8 years, we have three kids (who are dual citizens) and we can't be together!!

I need help, support, advice....anything! Sorry about the length and hope to hear from all of you.

[wmtc 0]

OH My this the third Denial on the Canadian side today regarding proof of Domicile, This is becaming a trend with montreal, they should give u guys Precise provision on how to go by providing proof of domicile that they will accept, Im truly sorry for u and your family to go thru this not havin any type of Ease, just be cool and calm and hope for the best.

[brocku00 1]

Thank you for your advice...I'll try to stay cool and calm! LOL When I was first told on the interview day to send in proof of domicile, I asked the officer specifically what he wanted and it was like pulling a tooth to get an answer. He just said send in what you think is right!!! He seemed to be annoyed when I kept asking for specifics so I politely said, "I just want to know these answers because once I leave this office, there is no one that I can call and ask". THen when I got my first denial in the mail, I phoned him and asked what other kind of domicile proof I needed, and agian is was a painful answer, but everything that he asked for, I sent in. I do know for a fact that they have access to the border computer system that can tell you when a particular person has entered Canada and when they entered back into the states. So I think since my husband visits for a month or two here and there (fortunetly he can afford this), they consider him 'living' here and not in the States. So, our goal is for him not to come back to Canada at all and send in new proof of domicile...kind of like starting a new life over!! LOL So hopefully this helps.

[wmtc 0]

That the spirit! You gotta keep on tryin and don't lose any hope. Everyone In VJ will be here for you my Sister

[Bern. 3]

This is terrible, what use is Montreal trying to fix the backlog if they're just going to deny "everyone" for lack of domicile? They're just creating more backlog. I hope they resolve this soon and that you are granted your visa so you can be reunited with your husband.

(My own question, not to hijack the thread but is a job in the US Army considered domicile? >_<)

[trailmix 77]

Wow Brocku, i'm so sorry to hear this! That's terrible that he told you that you didn't need to submit more information and then turns around and asks you for more. I'm also sorry to hear you were treated so rudely by the CO, why someone would give you his phone number and when you call him he tells you off, I have no idea.

There seems to be a common theme here between your interview/denial and Dalenes - I'm sure you have already read her thread.

The common thread, of course, is that your Husband spends time in Canada and the U.S. - therefore he decided to deny it based on not enough proof of residence in the U.S.

So, now he has returned to the U.S. and is not leaving until he has established that. I don't know when that 'magic' date is. If you can prove that he has spent far more time in the U.S. than in Canada over, say, the last year, that is perhaps the approach you should take.

Since you have decided to go this route, there is, obviously, no going back to proving 'reestablishing' domicile.

If you read the guidelines below, you will see that you are on the right track. It also says there is no particular 'time' of living in the U.S. that will prove domicile.

Personally I would contact the CO again, by mail. I would explain that your Husband has now permanently moved back to the U.S., I would submit the letter from the employer. Where is he staying now? With family or friends? I would get a lease made up with them to prove he is living there now.

(by the way I am going to provide a link to this document I keep referring to - just have to find the URL again)

9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-2 Establishing U.S. Domicile

(CT:VISA-823; 07-14-2006)

a. A petitioner living abroad not meeting the criteria in 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-1

who wishes to qualify as a sponsor must satisfy you:

(1) That he or she has taken steps to establish a domicile in the United

States;

(2) That he or she has either already taken up physical residence in the

United States or will do so currently with the applicant;

(3) The sponsor does not have to precede the applicant to the United

States but, if he or she does not do so, he or she must at least

arrive in the United States concurrently with the applicant;

(4) The sponsor must establish an address (a house, an apartment, or

arrangements for accommodations with family or friend) and either

must have already taken up physical residence in the United States;

or

(5) Must at a minimum to satisfy you that he or she intends to take up

residence there no later than the time of the applicant’s

immigration to the United States.

b. Although there is no time frame for the resident to establish residence,

you must be satisfied that the sponsor has, in fact, taken up residence in

the United States. Evidence that the sponsor has established a domicile

in the United States and is either physically residing there or intends to

do so before or concurrently with the applicant include the following:

(1) Opening a bank account;

(2) Transferring funds to the United States;

(3) Making investments in the United States;

(4) Seeking employment in the United States;

(5) Registering children in U.S. schools;

(6) Applying for a social security number; and

(7) Voting in local, state or federal elections.

Edited November 25, 2009 by trailmix

[trailmix 77]

This is the document I have been referring to in posts today

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86988.pdf

It gets really interesting on page 27

[Sam and Ben 2]

Sounds to me as if you already had all evidence of providing domicile. Personally, I would've contacted your Senator again, explained the denial and stupidity going on, and had them re-enforce your diligence.

For your husband to get a new place to live, open new accounts despite having existing ones, and to establish employment with someone else's letterhead, simply to satisfy whatever the COs issue was seems a little ridiculous. For you to feel as if your husband cannot visit you in Canada is also ridiculous.

All of this talk about visas being there to "reunite" families is fine and dandy... The visa process being one to FORCE separation is not.

[Lenie7 0]

Thank you for your advice...I'll try to stay cool and calm! LOL When I was first told on the interview day to send in proof of domicile, I asked the officer specifically what he wanted and it was like pulling a tooth to get an answer. He just said send in what you think is right!!! He seemed to be annoyed when I kept asking for specifics so I politely said, "I just want to know these answers because once I leave this office, there is no one that I can call and ask". THen when I got my first denial in the mail, I phoned him and asked what other kind of domicile proof I needed, and agian is was a painful answer, but everything that he asked for, I sent in. I do know for a fact that they have access to the border computer system that can tell you when a particular person has entered Canada and when they entered back into the states. So I think since my husband visits for a month or two here and there (fortunetly he can afford this), they consider him 'living' here and not in the States. So, our goal is for him not to come back to Canada at all and send in new proof of domicile...kind of like starting a new life over!! LOL So hopefully this helps.

That's funny because he kept telling me that the "law is clear" on domicile, so I asked him where I could find the law and he got mad and defensive. The only thing that is clear is that the CO can do whatever they want.

[Lenie7 0]

Thanks, Trailmix. I think the guy must be confused because he kept saying to me that he BELIEVES that I want to move back to the U.S. but still didn't want to issue the visa. I definitely satisfy number 5 on that list. Oh well. This list is way better than the one he gave me as it is more explicit. It seems like this is going to be a long slog....

Wow Brocku, i'm so sorry to hear this! That's terrible that he told you that you didn't need to submit more information and then turns around and asks you for more. I'm also sorry to hear you were treated so rudely by the CO, why someone would give you his phone number and when you call him he tells you off, I have no idea.

There seems to be a common theme here between your interview/denial and Dalenes - I'm sure you have already read her thread.

The common thread, of course, is that your Husband spends time in Canada and the U.S. - therefore he decided to deny it based on not enough proof of residence in the U.S.

So, now he has returned to the U.S. and is not leaving until he has established that. I don't know when that 'magic' date is. If you can prove that he has spent far more time in the U.S. than in Canada over, say, the last year, that is perhaps the approach you should take.

Since you have decided to go this route, there is, obviously, no going back to proving 'reestablishing' domicile.

If you read the guidelines below, you will see that you are on the right track. It also says there is no particular 'time' of living in the U.S. that will prove domicile.

Personally I would contact the CO again, by mail. I would explain that your Husband has now permanently moved back to the U.S., I would submit the letter from the employer. Where is he staying now? With family or friends? I would get a lease made up with them to prove he is living there now.

(by the way I am going to provide a link to this document I keep referring to - just have to find the URL again)

9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-2 Establishing U.S. Domicile

(CT:VISA-823; 07-14-2006)

a. A petitioner living abroad not meeting the criteria in 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-1

who wishes to qualify as a sponsor must satisfy you:

(1) That he or she has taken steps to establish a domicile in the United

States;

(2) That he or she has either already taken up physical residence in the

United States or will do so currently with the applicant;

(3) The sponsor does not have to precede the applicant to the United

States but, if he or she does not do so, he or she must at least

arrive in the United States concurrently with the applicant;

(4) The sponsor must establish an address (a house, an apartment, or

arrangements for accommodations with family or friend) and either

must have already taken up physical residence in the United States;

or

(5) Must at a minimum to satisfy you that he or she intends to take up

residence there no later than the time of the applicant’s

immigration to the United States.

b. Although there is no time frame for the resident to establish residence,

you must be satisfied that the sponsor has, in fact, taken up residence in

the United States. Evidence that the sponsor has established a domicile

in the United States and is either physically residing there or intends to

do so before or concurrently with the applicant include the following:

(1) Opening a bank account;

(2) Transferring funds to the United States;

(3) Making investments in the United States;

(4) Seeking employment in the United States;

(5) Registering children in U.S. schools;

(6) Applying for a social security number; and

(7) Voting in local, state or federal elections.

[Lenie7 0]

Does contacting your senator help? I'm wondering if that might send the CO off and cause a denial since he has the final say.

Sounds to me as if you already had all evidence of providing domicile. Personally, I would've contacted your Senator again, explained the denial and stupidity going on, and had them re-enforce your diligence.

For your husband to get a new place to live, open new accounts despite having existing ones, and to establish employment with someone else's letterhead, simply to satisfy whatever the COs issue was seems a little ridiculous. For you to feel as if your husband cannot visit you in Canada is also ridiculous.

All of this talk about visas being there to "reunite" families is fine and dandy... The visa process being one to FORCE separation is not.