Liberals who care about their fellow man should rethink U.S. energy policy.

[GaryC 7]

A New Deal on Energy

Liberals who care about their fellow man should rethink U.S. energy policy.

By Victor Davis Hanson

The other day in southwestern Fresno County, a poor part of Central California, I talked with a number of folks at a rural gas station. Most drove second- and third-hand pickups, large cast-off sedans or used SUVs. Their general complaint was twofold: They didn’t have the cash to buy a new fuel-efficient Honda or Toyota. And they were now spending a day or two of their wages just to fuel their cars for their long rural commutes.

I also happen to fill up three hours away on the San Francisco peninsula near Stanford University, where I work. High-priced hybrid cars and new more-efficient SUVs are everywhere. Mass transit is available and crammed.

After listening to these quite different motorists, I can confirm an obvious rule about energy use: The wealthier and better-educated seem less concerned about the price of gas.

Indeed, from my informal conversations at two very different gas stations, I would go even further: The wealthy, particularly those who are politically liberal, also like that high-priced gas translates into less burning of fossil fuels by others and helps accelerate research into alternative energies.

What these elites don’t seem to realize is that the energy policies they tend to advocate are for the present paralyzing almost everyone else in the country — and that the truly ethical and environmental solution would require embracing positions long considered anathema to traditional liberalism.

The debate in Congress over more refineries and nuclear power plants; drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and off our coasts; and developing oil shale, tar sands, and liquid coal usually follows a script fit for a soap opera: Grasping Republicans supposedly wish to enrich energy companies, while idealistic Democrats want only to protect the environment. But those black-and-white positions, hatched in the good old days of $1.50-a-gallon gas, should now be revisited on the basis of far different moral considerations.

One is fairness to the poor and middle class. Like it or not, radical environmentalism (and those behind it who provide the lobbying, funding, and influence to block energy legislation) appeals to an elite not all that worried when gas prices rise or electricity rates go up — since fossil energy use goes down.

But a paradox is that most environmentalists think of themselves as egalitarians. So, instead of objecting to the view of a derrick from the California hills above the Santa Barbara coast, shouldn’t a liberal estate owner instead console himself that the offshore pumping will help a nearby farm worker or carpenter get to work without going broke?

Another paradox: American laws and technology ensure a rig off Florida or in Alaska has far less chance of springing a leak than one in the Persian Gulf or the Russian tundra. If there really is a shared Planet Earth, then aren’t we all its collective stewards? By locking out energy exploration in the United States, we are encouraging it almost everywhere else.

No one is talking of more domestic drilling to give our SUVs and Hummers one last gasp at $2 a gallon gas. Everyone is already cutting back and waiting for more efficient engines and methods of conservation. Instead, producing as much of our own energy as possible means extracting more safely the world’s oil for the world’s biggest consumer.

Consider also how oil triggers a massive transfer of wealth abroad that is as illiberal as it is dangerous. Productive energy-strapped Americans, Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, and Indians are working day and night to give the world critical material goods, ideas, and services. To be blunt, oil-rich Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Russia, and Iran are not.

At best, the massive transfer of national wealth to most oil producers translates into a Chinese worker on an assembly line working longer for less money while artificial island resorts pop up in the Persian Gulf. At worst, that strapped Chinese fabricator is also working harder for another Iranian centrifuge, al-Qaida landmine, or Saudi-funded madrassa.

We should stop talking about suing the OPEC cartel, jawboning the House of Saud to lower prices, blaming the oil companies, or adding yet another massive tax on sky-high gas prices. What we don’t need right now are more pie-in-the-sky sermons about wind and solar saving us all or about millions of new jobs in green technology that can be almost instantly created.

That all may be possible in a generation. But in the here and now, we still need to tap the abundant conventional energy we already have in the United States. And in large part that means building, mining, and drilling.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Y2NjM...WMyOTEyNDg0MzM=

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Running out of material? Or why do you regurgitate the same nonsense? Posting it twice in as many days does make it neither better nor more convincing nor any more true. It's the same drivel today as it was on Thursday.

[GaryC 7]

Running out of material? Or why do you regurgitate the same nonsense? Posting it twice in as many days does make it neither better nor more convincing nor any more true. It's the same drivel today as it was on Thursday.

And its just as appropriate as it was then. The liberals in this country don't give a damn about the people. Yet you seem to soak it up like a sponge. Wake up.

[Peikko 1,575]

Oh, good grief. I think he likes this piece because it 'confirms' what he thinks he knows about 'liberal elites'. It gives him, and people like him permission to lay the blame firmly at the door of envinronmentalists (who used to be just 'potty tree huggers') but who are now some power hungry 'gas hoggers' who are going to 'rule the world' by holding everyone to ransom while they cruise around in their SUV's or something equally nutty.

Gary, sorry mate, but you really are beginning to sound positively insane.

[GaryC 7]

Oh, good grief. I think he likes this piece because it 'confirms' what he thinks he knows about 'liberal elites'. It gives him, and people like him permission to lay the blame firmly at the door of envinronmentalists (who used to be just 'potty tree huggers') but who are now some power hungry 'gas hoggers' who are going to 'rule the world' by holding everyone to ransom while they cruise around in their SUV's or something equally nutty.

Gary, sorry mate, but you really are beginning to sound positively insane.

Not insane, just mad as hell. The elite left is pulling the wool over your eyes and you don't see it. Every word of that story is true. Just because you don't see it doesn't make it less so.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Running out of material? Or why do you regurgitate the same nonsense? Posting it twice in as many days does make it neither better nor more convincing nor any more true. It's the same drivel today as it was on Thursday.

And its just as appropriate as it was then. The liberals in this country don't give a damn about the people. Yet you seem to soak it up like a sponge. Wake up.

You could at least try to be entertaining and original. Posting the dozen or so BS opinion pieces you seem to have found over the last couple of days just comes to show how weak a case you are having. Since you do not seem to have noticed, poverty has risen under the Republican leadership of the last seven years. Median incomes have decreased. The middle class has become weaker than ever. There are more people w/o proper access to health care services today than ever before. Unemployment is as bad as it hasn't been in decades. The nation collectively is almost twice as much in debt today compared to 7 years ago. Looking at American households, the situation is even worse. And you are going to sit there and lament that liberals don't care about the people? You've got to be kidding.

[Peikko 1,575]

You honestly can't see what is wrong with that piece of right wing propoganda can you? Try reading it without the 'anger' and you might just see it for what it is. Of course, when you buy into the riteous indignation, which is what the writer wants you to do, it's really hard see beyond that. Again, if you really want to get all hot under the collar about this, well, go right ahead, but I just find it funny because it's so ridiculous.

[GaryC 7]

Running out of material? Or why do you regurgitate the same nonsense? Posting it twice in as many days does make it neither better nor more convincing nor any more true. It's the same drivel today as it was on Thursday.

And its just as appropriate as it was then. The liberals in this country don't give a damn about the people. Yet you seem to soak it up like a sponge. Wake up.

You could at least try to be entertaining and original. Posting the dozen or so BS opinion pieces you seem to have found over the last couple of days just comes to show how weak a case you are having. Since you do not seem to have noticed, poverty has risen under the Republican leadership of the last seven years. Median incomes have decreased. The middle class has become weaker than ever. There are more people w/o proper access to health care services today than ever before. Unemployment is as bad as it hasn't been in decades. The nation collectively is almost twice as much in debt today compared to 7 years ago. Looking at American households, the situation is even worse. And you are going to sit there and lament that liberals don't care about the people? You've got to be kidding.

That old tripe again? It's all the reps fault. Right... It's the left that is the cause of our energy problems. Reps have been wanting to expand our domestic energy for years and have been blocked by the left. You can't lay this at our feet. It's the lefts fault. You got to be kidding. Wake up!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Running out of material? Or why do you regurgitate the same nonsense? Posting it twice in as many days does make it neither better nor more convincing nor any more true. It's the same drivel today as it was on Thursday.

And its just as appropriate as it was then. The liberals in this country don't give a damn about the people. Yet you seem to soak it up like a sponge. Wake up.

You could at least try to be entertaining and original. Posting the dozen or so BS opinion pieces you seem to have found over the last couple of days just comes to show how weak a case you are having. Since you do not seem to have noticed, poverty has risen under the Republican leadership of the last seven years. Median incomes have decreased. The middle class has become weaker than ever. There are more people w/o proper access to health care services today than ever before. Unemployment is as bad as it hasn't been in decades. The nation collectively is almost twice as much in debt today compared to 7 years ago. Looking at American households, the situation is even worse. And you are going to sit there and lament that liberals don't care about the people? You've got to be kidding.

That old tripe again? It's all the reps fault. Right... It's the left that is the cause of our energy problems. Reps have been wanting to expand our domestic energy for years and have been blocked by the left. You can't lay this at our feet. It's the lefts fault. You got to be kidding. Wake up!

I have not said that it's all the Republican's fault. Try and engage me on the points I am making rather than defending your views against an argument nobody but you is making. If you want to debate yourself, obtain a second user ID and have at it.

[GaryC 7]

Running out of material? Or why do you regurgitate the same nonsense? Posting it twice in as many days does make it neither better nor more convincing nor any more true. It's the same drivel today as it was on Thursday.

And its just as appropriate as it was then. The liberals in this country don't give a damn about the people. Yet you seem to soak it up like a sponge. Wake up.

You could at least try to be entertaining and original. Posting the dozen or so BS opinion pieces you seem to have found over the last couple of days just comes to show how weak a case you are having. Since you do not seem to have noticed, poverty has risen under the Republican leadership of the last seven years. Median incomes have decreased. The middle class has become weaker than ever. There are more people w/o proper access to health care services today than ever before. Unemployment is as bad as it hasn't been in decades. The nation collectively is almost twice as much in debt today compared to 7 years ago. Looking at American households, the situation is even worse. And you are going to sit there and lament that liberals don't care about the people? You've got to be kidding.

That old tripe again? It's all the reps fault. Right... It's the left that is the cause of our energy problems. Reps have been wanting to expand our domestic energy for years and have been blocked by the left. You can't lay this at our feet. It's the lefts fault. You got to be kidding. Wake up!

I have not said that it's all the Republican's fault. Try and engage me on the points I am making rather than defending your views against an argument nobody but you is making. If you want to debate yourself, obtain a second user ID and have at it.

Look at the thread topic. It's about the energy policy and how the elite left don't give a damn about us. Your the one that is trying to change the subject with your last post. Try staying on topic.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Running out of material? Or why do you regurgitate the same nonsense? Posting it twice in as many days does make it neither better nor more convincing nor any more true. It's the same drivel today as it was on Thursday.

And its just as appropriate as it was then. The liberals in this country don't give a damn about the people. Yet you seem to soak it up like a sponge. Wake up.

You could at least try to be entertaining and original. Posting the dozen or so BS opinion pieces you seem to have found over the last couple of days just comes to show how weak a case you are having. Since you do not seem to have noticed, poverty has risen under the Republican leadership of the last seven years. Median incomes have decreased. The middle class has become weaker than ever. There are more people w/o proper access to health care services today than ever before. Unemployment is as bad as it hasn't been in decades. The nation collectively is almost twice as much in debt today compared to 7 years ago. Looking at American households, the situation is even worse. And you are going to sit there and lament that liberals don't care about the people? You've got to be kidding.

That old tripe again? It's all the reps fault. Right... It's the left that is the cause of our energy problems. Reps have been wanting to expand our domestic energy for years and have been blocked by the left. You can't lay this at our feet. It's the lefts fault. You got to be kidding. Wake up!

I have not said that it's all the Republican's fault. Try and engage me on the points I am making rather than defending your views against an argument nobody but you is making. If you want to debate yourself, obtain a second user ID and have at it.

Look at the thread topic. It's about the energy policy and how the elite left don't give a damn about us. Your the one that is trying to change the subject with your last post. Try staying on topic.

The topic is old and has been debated the first time around. Just click on the link I provided in my first respose if you want to go through the entire thread again. In the meantime, you made a very broad accusation that I addressed. Nothing wrong with that.

[GaryC 7]

Running out of material? Or why do you regurgitate the same nonsense? Posting it twice in as many days does make it neither better nor more convincing nor any more true. It's the same drivel today as it was on Thursday.

And its just as appropriate as it was then. The liberals in this country don't give a damn about the people. Yet you seem to soak it up like a sponge. Wake up.

You could at least try to be entertaining and original. Posting the dozen or so BS opinion pieces you seem to have found over the last couple of days just comes to show how weak a case you are having. Since you do not seem to have noticed, poverty has risen under the Republican leadership of the last seven years. Median incomes have decreased. The middle class has become weaker than ever. There are more people w/o proper access to health care services today than ever before. Unemployment is as bad as it hasn't been in decades. The nation collectively is almost twice as much in debt today compared to 7 years ago. Looking at American households, the situation is even worse. And you are going to sit there and lament that liberals don't care about the people? You've got to be kidding.

That old tripe again? It's all the reps fault. Right... It's the left that is the cause of our energy problems. Reps have been wanting to expand our domestic energy for years and have been blocked by the left. You can't lay this at our feet. It's the lefts fault. You got to be kidding. Wake up!

I have not said that it's all the Republican's fault. Try and engage me on the points I am making rather than defending your views against an argument nobody but you is making. If you want to debate yourself, obtain a second user ID and have at it.

Look at the thread topic. It's about the energy policy and how the elite left don't give a damn about us. Your the one that is trying to change the subject with your last post. Try staying on topic.

The topic is old and has been debated the first time around. Just click on the link I provided in my first respose if you want to go through the entire thread again. In the meantime, you made a very broad accusation that I addressed. Nothing wrong with that.

Your tripe that the economy has left the middle class behind is BS. It doesn't even warrant discussion. It's nothing but more Bush bashing in an attempt to make the messiah's tax proposals look valid.

If you think that BS tripe about the economy is valid then you need to talk to your fellow VJ'rs. By a large margin they say they are better off now than 5 years ago. Wake up.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=132365

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Running out of material? Or why do you regurgitate the same nonsense? Posting it twice in as many days does make it neither better nor more convincing nor any more true. It's the same drivel today as it was on Thursday.

And its just as appropriate as it was then. The liberals in this country don't give a damn about the people. Yet you seem to soak it up like a sponge. Wake up.

You could at least try to be entertaining and original. Posting the dozen or so BS opinion pieces you seem to have found over the last couple of days just comes to show how weak a case you are having. Since you do not seem to have noticed, poverty has risen under the Republican leadership of the last seven years. Median incomes have decreased. The middle class has become weaker than ever. There are more people w/o proper access to health care services today than ever before. Unemployment is as bad as it hasn't been in decades. The nation collectively is almost twice as much in debt today compared to 7 years ago. Looking at American households, the situation is even worse. And you are going to sit there and lament that liberals don't care about the people? You've got to be kidding.

That old tripe again? It's all the reps fault. Right... It's the left that is the cause of our energy problems. Reps have been wanting to expand our domestic energy for years and have been blocked by the left. You can't lay this at our feet. It's the lefts fault. You got to be kidding. Wake up!

I have not said that it's all the Republican's fault. Try and engage me on the points I am making rather than defending your views against an argument nobody but you is making. If you want to debate yourself, obtain a second user ID and have at it.

Look at the thread topic. It's about the energy policy and how the elite left don't give a damn about us. Your the one that is trying to change the subject with your last post. Try staying on topic.

The topic is old and has been debated the first time around. Just click on the link I provided in my first respose if you want to go through the entire thread again. In the meantime, you made a very broad accusation that I addressed. Nothing wrong with that.

Your tripe that the economy has left the middle class behind is BS. It doesn't even warrant discussion. It's nothing but more Bush bashing in an attempt to make the messiah's tax proposals look valid.

The numbers, my friend, are from the very government that your buddy runs. The facts are the facts. You can ignore them all you want but they are still the facts. And quoting a poll from VJ is about as weak as it gets. Try and read up about proper and meaningful polling. The poll section in VJ isn't it.

[mendeleev 68]

Wondering if maybe it would be better not to butt into Gary's monologue ... but

I read in the Financial Times (that liberal rag) a couple days ago that the biggest untapped source of oil in the USA is under Detroit -- referring to the potential of the not-as-Big-as-they-used-to-be 3 to contribute to US energy security by figuring out how to sell energy-efficient cars. GM (Opel) and Ford (Europe) don't do so badly at it in Europe but they haven't found a way to bring that expertise home -- and so they cede market share to the Japanese. Maybe Congress will finally help Detroit by forcing substantial increases in fuel economy ... in effect legislating a demand that they become competitive since they haven't figured out otherwise that they need to be. (I used to work in this industry, on the inside, and know firsthand how severely management there hasn't figure this out.) Oh, who was it who was opposing increases in fuel economy for the past 15 years? Don't think that opposition was exactly rooted in liberalism. Gary, can you help me out there in understanding that?

Maybe Gary hasn't heard of Hubble, a Shell oil analyst who correctly predicted that the USA would peak in its oil production in the late 1960s and begin an irreversible decline. (Is Shell Oil a hotbed of libaralism?) The cries on the right to open this shred of land or that parcel of ocean has been fig leaf to cover an inability to propose an energy policy that has a real, physical basis of working for the long term. You can't power the demands of this country on mined domestic liquid fuels. The resource just isn't there. Sorry Gary, its a scientific fact that you might not be able to do a good job analyzing. But the question hasn't been in serious scientific debate for nearly 40 years. Sure you can find outliers .. but not real, serious debate. The USA is in irreversible decline for oil production. Russia maybe and if it isn't, they are close. Saudi Arabia will be there soon. Iraq would be, but foreign intervention has kept their industry shut down for the last decade. If the chaos there were to magically stop, they might offer a brief reprieve. Things look bleak for a significant increase in production globally of this mined resource. Gotta try something very different. Not sure Gary understands that.

As I said in another thread lately, it is great to be working for a new energy company. I'm humping 60 hrs, 80 hrs, sometimes more a week working to create a sustainable liquid fuel industry that will improve US energy security, mitigate global warming, and help create the basis of an energy economy that will be able to go on indefinitely, rather than living, as Gary seems to advocate, on borrowed time, mining an already depleted resource. It is a very good mid-career change. I suppose if I truly didn't like people or care about the basis of western society sustaining itself energetically, I'd work in plastics and make a lot more money and have a lot more free time.

And this liberal *never* owned a SUV. Presently I own the least fuel economical car I've ever owned -- with an automatic transmission (to make easier for my immigrant wife to learn to drive) that gets only 35 mpg in the city. I've been working the demand side of the equation for decades. Looks a bit countercultural, given all the behemoths I see on the road driven by a solitary occupant.

Leaving fools paradise won't be easy. But it looks like we've been kicked out of the garden. High prices are here to stay. Bush gets only partial credit for that one. The Chinese and Indians also get partial credit, as does the wastefulness we've practiced here the past few decades. Its high time to figure out how to adapt.

[GaryC 7]

The numbers, my friend, are from the very government that your buddy runs. The facts are the facts. You can ignore them all you want but they are still the facts. And quoting a poll from VJ is about as weak as it gets. Try and read up about proper and meaningful polling. The poll section in VJ isn't it.

They are not the "facts" as much as you would like them to be. It is just one small part of a large economy that you cherry picked to try and paint the economy they way you want it to look like. Try looking at the big picture for once and let go of your BDS.