Strange question I know

[thndrdancr 0]

Ok. How shall I put this. I am a normal American gal, and have not had much experience with some of the other cultures and religions. I have a question about affection and kissing. My Indian husband grew in in a pretty strict Hindu culture, yet was from Guyana, not India. I would also say he is slightly christian, which I know is weird. But anyhow, he grew in a household with NO affection whatsoever. No hugs, no "I love you's", no kissing, no "I am proud of you's" etc.

In our 40's we are, and his first kiss was with me. Unreal. His folks even tried the arranged marriage bit, etc, so he is really not too experienced with my affection needs. When I try to make him understand I need HUGS, and TLC, and complements...he just doesnt seem to be getting it, and thinks I am referring to "sex" itself. Since this concept is so foreign to him, its real tough on him and it makes me feel positively unloved at times.

Anyone expereience anything of this sort? And I have told him SOOOOOO many times now, we even had a big discussion (with me crying) about it before marrying, with me saying I couldnt live without it, and I THOUGHT he got it, but he slips back into the way he grew up so easily. He never says a harsh word, and he does tell me he loves before bed at night, but I always have to say it first. I know he does love me, in all his little actions, but sometimes I just want something physical. Any advice, anything? And maybe even some of the men have some ideas. Men- if you only KNEW how important this is to a girl!

[thndrdancr 0]

I might not have worded that well, but the reason I pointed out that he was Hindu is because I was wondering if that may be common in that religion? Or it might just depend on the household. He never grew up saying "please" and "thank you" either. It seems his growing up years were pretty cold.

I know the bollywood movies show a lot of affection but no kissing..but I KNOW movies arent real. Is this common in a Hindu household? Or just the typical "dysfunctional" family? lol

[Mina76 0]

Then it is up to you to show him Step by Step

But it may take time since he is not used to this kind of showing any emotions to anyone being like you said that he came from a strict Hindu culture.

My husband is muslim and he is against showing any kind of affection in public eventhough he has seen it here in the US many times, but he is not completely closed to it. He used to also think that showing affection was only for initialing to sex, but I said no it shouldn't only for sex.

I came from a very close loving family and we have always shown our affections to each other and little by little I started to show this same affection towards my husband with saying I love you, giving him hugs, giving him small pecks on the cheeks, then on his lips, with time he started to do back. Of course my husband still believes that all this should be done behind closed, but at least he is getting a bit more comfortable with showing it at home.

Wish you both much Love and Happiness

Mina

[JanaknJanet 0]

Thndrdancr My Jan is also from a strick Hindu family/culture. He has explained to me how it is not the way to do to say please thankyou's not as a way of being rude but as a way of it is not necessary due to the love the family has for all. The PSA is definaetly not something that is done freely there. It may take a bit of time for your husband to adjust and then he may not.

I chatting with Jan asking him for his input... he is Hindi.. been there done that with the arranged marariage. .. is Bhramen, from Gujarat, eldest son,bla bla bla ... I have copied his post from our msn conversation for you .. If it was ok i sent him what you wrote... and asked if he had any insight...

this is from Janak

kissses within the room is warm

but in public it is not accepted

still in general by peope make love in public is not indian tradition

that is not the culture

not the lessson what we have learnt from our chld hood

like to kiss in open is your culture or trend or style or a way of expressing your care in public

and that u have we have accepted that we cannot do that

and this is nothing banned or some one is going to stop it

but our culture in public dont hesitate to kiss but since

it is not commonly accepted still it is just not appreciated

it is not a question of orthodox or rigid or of old thoughts

but this what we say and world recognise our culture

for which india is ahead in their religous and spiritual power in the world

so she dont need to cry for not kisssing

she should see the care

so it is ususal for a man living in america thought he is indian cannot kiss wife in public

>>>

He wishes you the best.. and hopes that this something you can understand..

I did have one question tho... have you ever made a trip to India yet? Seeing the men...all grouped together.. teh women together... the family dinners at restraunts.. with the children being tended to by all. not just the women.. the men that step up to the plate for family .. the mix family blends.. joint huseholds. societies. all.. these make up this culture.. and it is something a young country such as USA has little history of. ..

for myself.. it was a very good experience .. it opened my eyes to a culture I need to be aware of. I accept his culture.. he accepts mine. but we both understand that it is going to be hard. and there are things that he does that i still dont understand.. and visa versa.. but i have faith in US..

remember where your heart is.. . . he will too see ... and I pray for you that he can understand our culture as well as your willingness to understand his .

hugs. Janet

[chri'stina 190]

I might not have worded that well, but the reason I pointed out that he was Hindu is because I was wondering if that may be common in that religion? Or it might just depend on the household. He never grew up saying "please" and "thank you" either. It seems his growing up years were pretty cold.

I know the bollywood movies show a lot of affection but no kissing..but I KNOW movies arent real. Is this common in a Hindu household? Or just the typical "dysfunctional" family? lol

I don't have the answers to your Q's really, but in Indian culture sometimes they are not accustomed to saying "thank you" and "please" but to them it's not cold, while to us it is, since we have grown up with being that way, we consider it polite. In India, if you say please and thank you it's sometimes considered too formal or non-personal. When I first visited Sujeet in India I noticed it right away, and asked him about it and he explained it. Now that he is in the US though he does say thank you, please, you're welcome and sincerely means it, and has learned that here it's being polite, not formal. He now likes that people take the time to say those things here.

We were in a Indian/Paki grocery store a few days ago, and they were non-talkative and not friendly in that store...I hate going in there, but they don't seem to think they are being rude. After paying and getting my change back, I said a smiley "thank you" to which I was ignored and the lady just walked away from the counter. To me it's really rude, but to them I guess it's not, though you think that after opening a store in the US you should have to know how to deal with customers the way considered appropriate in the US. But they are still in an Indian culture bubble because they hardly interact with non-Indians.

As for your hubbby, I think it's partly a cultural thing but also is mixed with his family upbringing. (I have friends who lived in Tanzania for 2 years and they did meet lots of Indian people there so I do believe you that he is Indian yet from an African country. )

And the bollywood movies are not that realistic. Which you already knew, but I watched them before going to India and boy, India was not like what was portrayed in the movies. The only real parts are the family struggles of trying to arrange marriages and the kids rebelling. There is hardly affection in public in India, and Sujeet still feels uncomfortable to kiss me in public, and I don't mind being more private anyway so we rarely do that. But he doesn't hesitate to be affectionate at home with me. He isn't Hindu now but did grow up Hindu. His family is not that affectionate. With little kids they are more affectionate than when the kids are grown up. Sujeet doesn't hug his mom when he sees her, he reaches to touch her feet as is the custom, to which she stops him from having to reach all the way to her feet for her blessing(maybe you've seen it in the movies!). But they do love each other a whole lot and have a good relationship. Same with his father. They all love eachother deeply in his family, even if they don't hug all the time.

The best thing is to talk to your husband about it, which you do seem to be doing. It might not be something that changes overnight.

Edited April 21, 2006 by stina&suj

[goldenlady 0]

Hi,

My husband arrived from (Bangalore) India in in January of this year. He had never been to the U.S. prior to his arrival. Although he knows quite a bit about American culture, its different when u actually experience it. Its refreshing to see this topic being discussed because I too felt the same as you at once. I wanted more affection from my husband and I slowly began to learn the differences in our cultures. I accepted the fact that in his culuture it is frowned upon when one displays public affection(holding hands even). While over here in the U.S. its the extreme opposite. That's perfectly fine with me because my husband makes up for it when we are alone. I definitely agree with the others when they say that it is part culutre and partly the way one has been raised. Why,I remember when my sweetie sent for me to visit him last year this time and we would go to festivals and I would see men holding hands together ( I thought it was sweet)...and these men were hindu while men here wouldn't be caught dead holding hands together....at least not the heterosexual men. So I gathered that it was okay for men to show public affection to each other but no neccessarily the opposite sex.

My husband and I are both muslim but its culture that makes things different. My husband knows how needy I can be so he's learning how to be more affectionate. Its definitely not an overnight thing so please just be patient ( as I am doing the same) and just continue to reach out to him. He'll see how important it is to you and hopefully it"ll bring some of his affection to the fore front.

[Veiled Princess 1]

I think this just has to to with how he was raised. In America we have a very open culture.... meaning we are taught from birth to accept just about anything we see. If we didn't grow up our whole lives seeing people making out in public or being forced as children to say please and thank you for everything we probably would feel shy about showing affection in public and not think twice about saying please or thank you for anything.

I'm not very familiar with Hinduism so I don't know how much of it comes from his religion but I do believe that the majority religion in an area does have a huge impact on the culture. I'm pretty sure also that western countries are pretty much the only places where public shows of affection are acceptable.

[thndrdancr 0]

Ok, I have received a lot of good answers. But...one of the hard things I am having a hard time adjusting to, is not PUBLIC affection, its lack of affection at ALL. I mean, there are no hugs and kisses, etc, in the HOME place. I know I was surprised by the public thing as well, as the first time I grabbed his hand and held it in public, he was horrified, and said it was just NOT DONE in his country. Even between man and wife. Its still very difficult for him.

And yes, he is very loving, and I see how they step up and help with children, etc, and the family itself is very loving, but the lack of hugs and stuff really hurt sometimes. I have discussed this with him, but I have to initiate all the affectionate stuff, and its not returned. He shows it in so many other ways, the helping out with chores, etc., but its still very difficult, as I come from a family where hugs are frequent, pats on the back, mussin the hair affectionately, etc. It just makes me FEEL loved. I really dont know how to convey how important it is to me. And its not that he doesnt LIKE it (hugs, kisses), when I give them, I guess he just doesnt think to initiate them, or doesnt know how? Not sure. I have discussed it with him, he says he will start hugging, etc, then nothing...sigh.

I guess I will just keep talkin, and keep on huggin on him every day, and eventually he will come around! lol

Edited April 28, 2006 by thndrdancr

[goldenlady 0]

Again, I totally understand how you are feeling because I too am in your shoes from time to time. Sometimes my husband can stand to be a little more affectionate. Sure my husband is the sweetest man I know but he's also reserved. He doesn't show much emotion. Example: my husband recieved his US drivers license two weeks back and he had told me that he was elated yet his face showed no emotion I thought that was very interesting. So as I am learning my man B) I am adjusting. Being American doesn't help either because here we are very emotional creatures and we express ourselves on every level. I can identify with your feelings.....its not about public deplays of affection its the small things that make us feel appreciated. I am teaching him these things one teaspoon at a time because its a process but its the end results that I am focused on. So your on the right paths...jus continue to show him...little by little.....as he adjusts he will come around. In the mean just visualize him doing these things that you love.

[thndrdancr 0]

Yes! Thats exactly what I was talking about. I would never know my man was elated either! I do realize he has had a job AND an upbringing where showing emotion only ended up causing him harm, so he has had 40 years to work on showing no emotion. (A father with a heavy hand, and a job where the boss had a lot of power - a nasty captain of a ship, where he had the power to send you home jobless an paying for your own ticket if he didnt like the way u looked at him)

The only time he gets real talkative and laughs a lot is when he is drunk! He IS really trying, but he forgets how important it is until we have an argument.

I will keep working on him! Like you said, a teaspoon at a time.

[goldenlady 0]

Yes indeedy! Its a process but we will get there.....one teaspoon at a time.

[iceyspots 0]

Each religion has their own form of strictness. I've noticed that the Hindu religion varies soooo much from region to region.. There are so many different ways of practicing, and his family could be really strict on display of affection because "that's how they've always done it", traditionally.. It might be best to start off with small things... like.. a peck on the cheek before you or him leave for work in the morning, then graduate to more intimate things piece by piece... baby steps... baby steps..

[Elizabethnhenry 0]

Great discussion. My husband is not Indian and he is Christian and has the same issue with thank yous and please and being overly affectionate. He said what some else said, it's all a part of family, it's all a part of love in the family. No one deserves to be thanked! So even when I come home and he has prepared dinner on his day off and I thank him for tidying up and cooking, he's like "thanking me for me doing my share? Why?" So it's just a different mindset....that we have to RESPECT even as we learn to maneuver around it or if we seek to change it.

I have a best friend who is Mexican American and another who is Colombian and when I asked them about this issue - they both said their dads felt that they were wage earners and they never left their families....what more did we want? Kind of like "I put food on the table and a roof over your head! You want me to hug and kiss you too????!!!!! Get over it!!"

I also agree with the recommendations that you be the "leader" when it comes to affection....step by step do to him what you want done to you - he may squirm or throw up (LOL) but keep at it. I have witnessed that with my own dad who grew up without any affection or love or praise. And was not very warm to us - I only have two memories of playing with him.

Now my dad hugs me first and he even hugs my brother...while my husband's K3 was being processed, he would come to my house and offers to do chores and offer to stay with me in case I was lonely or worried about being denied at the embassy. What changed him? Having my niece come into his life and jump on him and scream I love my grampa. Or when she put her "world's greatest grandpa note" under his pillow. She melted him and its great to get cards from him now telling me how proud he is of me etc. He even gives cards to my husband. To watch him throw my niece in the air and catch her reminds me of the two memories I have of his affection - my standing on a chair and his telling me to jump off the chair so he could catch me and my dancing with him by standing on his shoes. But he only did those things with me - not my sister or brothers or my mom. No one could have predicted you could teach that "old dog" new tricks.

Good luck and don't give up.

[thndrdancr 0]

He IS making progress! This week has been wonderful, we have been really giving each other a lot of hugs. He had a very hard work day today, where he got yelled at, and I asked him if he needed a hug and he said "YES!".

Its not that he doesnt like it, he says he "forgets" as he never grew up with it, and it takes reminding. He is lovely with children tho, he plays with his nieces and nephews when he is around them a LOT, tickling, and throwing them and horsing around. And we had talked before we ever married, I knew he grew up without any affection, but I asked him if he had children, wouldnt HE play with them and hug them and he told me he definately thought children NEED that, and thats its sad that children feel unwanted back where he came from in Guyana sometimes. So many have so many children that I guess sometimes it leads to resentment when you cant afford to feed them all. He has a lot of ideas that are very forward thinking for his country, like a man shouldnt have 8 children if they cant afford to feed them, etc.

And Elizabeth, he has occasionally started saying "thank you". It was not so much that they considered doing stuff out of love with him, he just grew up in a pretty cold family. The first time he said it, I bout fell outta my chair. Its lovely to hear.

Thanks for all your replies, everyone..it is a work in progress.

[vicki/bala 0]

He IS making progress! This week has been wonderful, we have been really giving each other a lot of hugs. He had a very hard work day today, where he got yelled at, and I asked him if he needed a hug and he said "YES!".

Its not that he doesnt like it, he says he "forgets" as he never grew up with it, and it takes reminding. He is lovely with children tho, he plays with his nieces and nephews when he is around them a LOT, tickling, and throwing them and horsing around. And we had talked before we ever married, I knew he grew up without any affection, but I asked him if he had children, wouldnt HE play with them and hug them and he told me he definately thought children NEED that, and thats its sad that children feel unwanted back where he came from in Guyana sometimes. So many have so many children that I guess sometimes it leads to resentment when you cant afford to feed them all. He has a lot of ideas that are very forward thinking for his country, like a man shouldnt have 8 children if they cant afford to feed them, etc.

And Elizabeth, he has occasionally started saying "thank you". It was not so much that they considered doing stuff out of love with him, he just grew up in a pretty cold family. The first time he said it, I bout fell outta my chair. Its lovely to hear.

Thanks for all your replies, everyone..it is a work in progress.

I was very sad reading this thread. I was married to a wonderful man who was hindu, (Sri Lankan). I can relate to all the women here who find themselves in marriage where there is no affection shown. My marriage lasted a little over six years. I tried everything possible to make it work, including a marriage counselor. In the end I wasnt able to accept that my husband would never be able to show me the affection I needed. We came from two different worlds. I was very open and affectionate with all those that I loved. He was raised to show no affection at all. We didnt celebrate bds, anniversaries, Christmas, etc, and growing up those were all big deals to me. We all, as human beings have our needs, and if those needs are not met for whatever reason , then we hurt. My ex husband and I remain the best of friends, we go out to dinners, see movies, all the things that friends do with each other. But we both have moved on to seperate lives. I hope that each of you ladies are able to resolve this issue without taking the road I did, but just understand one thing that my marriage counselor helped me to realize. If you are waiting for these men to become what you need, it may never happen. For me it didnt. At least not before I no longer cared. Each time I reached out for affection, just to be denied.... it was harder and harder to reach out again. As I said my ex husband was a wonderful, kind, man. In the end it will all come down to what are you needs, and are they being met.

Good Luck

Vicki