Poll: Public Wants Illegals to Go Home

[peejay 327]

That would be nice if the illegals go back home and never come back for good lol.

At the same time,, we want our fresh produce at the grocery cheap

Who's we? Speak for yourself! Cheap cucumbers aren't so cheap when people look at the big picture. It's not so simplistic or really so cheap.

The big picture is that you get cheap goods and services, thus keeping a lid on inflation and therefore interest rates. Not to ignore the number of additional consumers that enter the Amerikan market. The big picture is that so many amerikans would rather sit in their pygamas at their computers on the internet than out there doing the jobs that Mexicans are doing for you.

From what I've seen, many of these illegals are just hard-working individuals wanting a life for themselves and their families. Bullying of poor people really speaks volumes about you and your ethics.

But why would you care? Your country attacks defenceless countries everywhere - just ask anyone in Latin America.

Then why are you petitioning to come to this hell hole of depravity and injustice? So you can sit around and have Mexicans wait on you while you surf the net in your undies? I don't employ illegal aliens from Mexico or anywhere else.

You don't know me, my ethics, or anything else about me. You sure jump to a lot of conclusions from reading a few posts.

I figured that I'd reciprocate the courtesy.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How can you possibly think inducing an artificial shortage in an essential commodity is a good thing?

Ask the Saudis. They'll tell ya'.

[JoeMama 0]

That would be nice if the illegals go back home and never come back for good lol.

At the same time,, we want our fresh produce at the grocery cheap

Who's we? Speak for yourself! Cheap cucumbers aren't so cheap when people look at the big picture. It's not so simplistic or really so cheap.

The big picture is that you get cheap goods and services, thus keeping a lid on inflation and therefore interest rates. Not to ignore the number of additional consumers that enter the Amerikan market. The big picture is that so many amerikans would rather sit in their pygamas at their computers on the internet than out there doing the jobs that Mexicans are doing for you.

From what I've seen, many of these illegals are just hard-working individuals wanting a life for themselves and their families. Bullying of poor people really speaks volumes about you and your ethics.

But why would you care? Your country attacks defenceless countries everywhere - just ask anyone in Latin America.

Then why are you petitioning to come to this hell hole of depravity and injustice? So you can sit around and have Mexicans wait on you while you surf the net in your undies? I don't employ illegal aliens from Mexico or anywhere else.

You don't know me, my ethics, or anything else about me. You sure jump to a lot of conclusions from reading a few posts.

I figured that I'd reciprocate the courtesy.

Peejay, don't ever respond to Anais Nin. That person, what sexual organ they have, is just dipshit. They like to stir the dermo (####### in Russian) as much as they can. I'm glad I was sitting around in pajamas at my computer, on the internet, to pass on this info to you while the Mexicans are doing my job.

Edited May 26, 2007 by altimixdj

[Anais Nin 0]

But why would you care? Your country attacks defenceless countries everywhere - just ask anyone in Latin America.

That is the paradox of the World--here you see Latinos, Africans, Arabs, Asians etc. burning flags of the USA, Bush in Effigy, and defacing McDonalds or other simbols of the USA--yet take any poll anywhere in the world and you see the same anti-american eager to gain a visa to come to the USA. How much of this is envy--or what have you with the love-hate relationship. I guess the USA is like a gorgeous woman that won't let you have your way with her--so you bash her out of disappointment and disbain--yet at the same time still yearn to be in her arms if she will ever truly have you.

You speak out of ignorance, artegal. Take a poll.

Here's what I've seen:

Latinos, Africans, and Asians working the jobs you won't so they can feed their poverty-stricken families. I've seen the women of these countries try to get visas to come to amerika to marry these winner amerikan men that no other amerikan woman would want to marry.

Artegal, is there something you would like to tell us about the way you treated a gorgeous woman that didn't want you?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Still can't spell the country properly I see.... There is no hope for you.

[eric&gen 0]

The hard working illegals don't spend there money here they send it back home to the families lol.

[metta 0]

<br />

That would be nice if the illegals go back home and never come back for good lol.

<br />At the same time,, we want our fresh produce at the grocery cheap <img src="style_emoticons/default/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><br />

<br />Who's we? Speak for yourself! Cheap cucumbers aren't so cheap when people look at the big picture. It's not so simplistic or really so cheap.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Come on Peejay, don't get so indignant about my comment made somewhat sardonically. Any politically aware person can grasp the complexity of this illegal immigration issue, and yet we are all caught up in this American conundrum. Americans, we -yes that includes you and me- want the best deal possible without realizing or wanting to realize the cost that comes attached to that best deal we sought or the lifestyle we've become used to. Yes, because you are tuned in to the illegal immigrant issue you'd be willing to pay more for the produce harvested without illegal alien labor.

That's selective indignation because many- perhaps you including, engage in actions daily that undermine our short- term and long-term interest. Like, clinging on to the SUVs ( example of profligate energy use) despite the fact that our oil dependency keeps the dictators of the of oil producing countries strong and able to act against OUR( read US) interest with impunity. We are sickened by the atrocities that the Chinese Communist regime perpetrate on their own people like executing prisoners to harvest organs. But, let me ask you how many American shoppers are deterred by these atrocities from flocking to Walmart or Saks Fifth Avenue or Best Buy or where ever a good deal can be found ? Yes, I am mad at those big money guys from Agro Businesses and construction industry and meat and poultry industries and you name it, who are pushing for legislation and loopholes that will sustain the supply of cheap labor. But, WE the majority of American should each bear some burden of guilt for exercising our inherent right to pursue happiness often with little thought for those actions that certainly have and will come back to hurt us.

O.K, that's my rant

[Sofiyya 1,687]

peejay,

Labor should be cheap. It is plentiful.

What is wrong with importing what is plentiful and cheap elsewhere if the resource is scarce and expensive where you are?

Nothing. Not doing so is committing economic suicide.

Cheap labor is only cheap to the employer. To the social support systems, they are costly because they get sick, commit crimes, reproduce and want to be educated. When they become legalized (please God, no!) they will also want even more of what you have. If you have actually paid attention to what is in this new legislative "compromise", it's clear that our elected representatives are willing to give them MORE than we have because too many of us are asleep at the wheel and have been for too long.

How many of you have expressed your views to your federal and state representatives re this issue? I have, plenty, and will continue to!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

<br />

That would be nice if the illegals go back home and never come back for good lol.

<br />At the same time,, we want our fresh produce at the grocery cheap <img src="style_emoticons/default/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><br />

<br />Who's we? Speak for yourself! Cheap cucumbers aren't so cheap when people look at the big picture. It's not so simplistic or really so cheap.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Come on Peejay, don't get so indignant about my comment made somewhat sardonically. Any politically aware person can grasp the complexity of this illegal immigration issue, and yet we are all caught up in this American conundrum. Americans, we -yes that includes you and me- want the best deal possible without realizing or wanting to realize the cost that comes attached to that best deal we sought or the lifestyle we've become used to. Yes, because you are tuned in to the illegal immigrant issue you'd be willing to pay more for the produce harvested without illegal alien labor.

That's selective indignation because many- perhaps you including, engage in actions daily that undermine our short- term and long-term interest. Like, clinging on to the SUVs ( example of profligate energy use) despite the fact that our oil dependency keeps the dictators of the of oil producing countries strong and able to act against OUR( read US) interest with impunity. We are sickened by the atrocities that the Chinese Communist regime perpetrate on their own people like executing prisoners to harvest organs. But, let me ask you how many American shoppers are deterred by these atrocities from flocking to Walmart or Saks Fifth Avenue or Best Buy or where ever a good deal can be found ? Yes, I am mad at those big money guys from Agro Businesses and construction industry and meat and poultry industries and you name it, who are pushing for legislation and loopholes that will sustain the supply of cheap labor. But, WE the majority of American should each bear some burden of guilt for exercising our inherent right to pursue happiness often with little thought for those actions that certainly have and will come back to hurt us.

O.K, that's my rant

That was a beautiful rant!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

<br />

That would be nice if the illegals go back home and never come back for good lol.

<br />At the same time,, we want our fresh produce at the grocery cheap <img src="style_emoticons/default/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><br />

<br />Who's we? Speak for yourself! Cheap cucumbers aren't so cheap when people look at the big picture. It's not so simplistic or really so cheap.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Come on Peejay, don't get so indignant about my comment made somewhat sardonically. Any politically aware person can grasp the complexity of this illegal immigration issue, and yet we are all caught up in this American conundrum. Americans, we -yes that includes you and me- want the best deal possible without realizing or wanting to realize the cost that comes attached to that best deal we sought or the lifestyle we've become used to. Yes, because you are tuned in to the illegal immigrant issue you'd be willing to pay more for the produce harvested without illegal alien labor.

That's selective indignation because many- perhaps you including, engage in actions daily that undermine our short- term and long-term interest. Like, clinging on to the SUVs ( example of profligate energy use) despite the fact that our oil dependency keeps the dictators of the of oil producing countries strong and able to act against OUR( read US) interest with impunity. We are sickened by the atrocities that the Chinese Communist regime perpetrate on their own people like executing prisoners to harvest organs. But, let me ask you how many American shoppers are deterred by these atrocities from flocking to Walmart or Saks Fifth Avenue or Best Buy or where ever a good deal can be found ? Yes, I am mad at those big money guys from Agro Businesses and construction industry and meat and poultry industries and you name it, who are pushing for legislation and loopholes that will sustain the supply of cheap labor. But, WE the majority of American should each bear some burden of guilt for exercising our inherent right to pursue happiness often with little thought for those actions that certainly have and will come back to hurt us.

O.K, that's my rant

That was a beautiful rant!

I have yet to find the cheaper cucumber that the illegal picked. Is there a separate shelf in the grocery somewhere where I can get the bargains that illegal labor affords me? I mean, 75% of the produce is picked by legally employed individuals leaving only 25% to be picked by illegal labor. Same goes for the restaurant where I am still searching for that 15-20% niche that will offer the savings of illegal labor to me. So, where does one go for the actual savings?

Oh, that's right. The savings ain't for the consumer. It's just for the profiteer that employs the illegal alien.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

<br />

That would be nice if the illegals go back home and never come back for good lol.

<br />At the same time,, we want our fresh produce at the grocery cheap <img src="style_emoticons/default/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><br />

<br />Who's we? Speak for yourself! Cheap cucumbers aren't so cheap when people look at the big picture. It's not so simplistic or really so cheap.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Come on Peejay, don't get so indignant about my comment made somewhat sardonically. Any politically aware person can grasp the complexity of this illegal immigration issue, and yet we are all caught up in this American conundrum. Americans, we -yes that includes you and me- want the best deal possible without realizing or wanting to realize the cost that comes attached to that best deal we sought or the lifestyle we've become used to. Yes, because you are tuned in to the illegal immigrant issue you'd be willing to pay more for the produce harvested without illegal alien labor.

That's selective indignation because many- perhaps you including, engage in actions daily that undermine our short- term and long-term interest. Like, clinging on to the SUVs ( example of profligate energy use) despite the fact that our oil dependency keeps the dictators of the of oil producing countries strong and able to act against OUR( read US) interest with impunity. We are sickened by the atrocities that the Chinese Communist regime perpetrate on their own people like executing prisoners to harvest organs. But, let me ask you how many American shoppers are deterred by these atrocities from flocking to Walmart or Saks Fifth Avenue or Best Buy or where ever a good deal can be found ? Yes, I am mad at those big money guys from Agro Businesses and construction industry and meat and poultry industries and you name it, who are pushing for legislation and loopholes that will sustain the supply of cheap labor. But, WE the majority of American should each bear some burden of guilt for exercising our inherent right to pursue happiness often with little thought for those actions that certainly have and will come back to hurt us.

O.K, that's my rant

That was a beautiful rant!

I have yet to find the cheaper cucumber that the illegal picked. Is there a separate shelf in the grocery somewhere where I can get the bargains that illegal labor affords me? I mean, 75% of the produce is picked by legally employed individuals leaving only 25% to be picked by illegal labor. Same goes for the restaurant where I am still searching for that 15-20% niche that will offer the savings of illegal labor to me. So, where does one go for the actual savings?

Oh, that's right. The savings ain't for the consumer. It's just for the profiteer that employs the illegal alien.

I'm not sure where you found those percentages, but I'm certain I've read those percentages were much higher. At the risk of sounding anecdotal - just go see how many non-hispanics you can find harvesting the crops or in the kitchens of restaurant across the country. And that's no accident. California was importing seasonal migrant workers for agriculture for the last century - we even made it legal for them to be here...imagine that.

[Alex+R 0]

oops wrong thread

Edited May 26, 2007 by Alex+R

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

That would be nice if the illegals go back home and never come back for good lol.

At the same time,, we want our fresh produce at the grocery cheap

Who's we? Speak for yourself! Cheap cucumbers aren't so cheap when people look at the big picture. It's not so simplistic or really so cheap.

Come on Peejay, don't get so indignant about my comment made somewhat sardonically. Any politically aware person can grasp the complexity of this illegal immigration issue, and yet we are all caught up in this American conundrum. Americans, we -yes that includes you and me- want the best deal possible without realizing or wanting to realize the cost that comes attached to that best deal we sought or the lifestyle we've become used to. Yes, because you are tuned in to the illegal immigrant issue you'd be willing to pay more for the produce harvested without illegal alien labor.

That's selective indignation because many- perhaps you including, engage in actions daily that undermine our short- term and long-term interest. Like, clinging on to the SUVs ( example of profligate energy use) despite the fact that our oil dependency keeps the dictators of the of oil producing countries strong and able to act against OUR( read US) interest with impunity. We are sickened by the atrocities that the Chinese Communist regime perpetrate on their own people like executing prisoners to harvest organs. But, let me ask you how many American shoppers are deterred by these atrocities from flocking to Walmart or Saks Fifth Avenue or Best Buy or where ever a good deal can be found ? Yes, I am mad at those big money guys from Agro Businesses and construction industry and meat and poultry industries and you name it, who are pushing for legislation and loopholes that will sustain the supply of cheap labor. But, WE the majority of American should each bear some burden of guilt for exercising our inherent right to pursue happiness often with little thought for those actions that certainly have and will come back to hurt us.O.K, that's my rant

That was a beautiful rant!

I have yet to find the cheaper cucumber that the illegal picked. Is there a separate shelf in the grocery somewhere where I can get the bargains that illegal labor affords me? I mean, 75% of the produce is picked by legally employed individuals leaving only 25% to be picked by illegal labor. Same goes for the restaurant where I am still searching for that 15-20% niche that will offer the savings of illegal labor to me. So, where does one go for the actual savings?

Oh, that's right. The savings ain't for the consumer. It's just for the profiteer that employs the illegal alien.

I'm not sure where you found those percentages, but I'm certain I've read those percentages were much higher. At the risk of sounding anecdotal - just go see how many non-hispanics you can find harvesting the crops or in the kitchens of restaurant across the country. And that's no accident. California was importing seasonal migrant workers for agriculture for the last century - we even made it legal for them to be here...imagine that.

There's your central issue, Steven. Just because you see a lot of hispanics in agriculture, restaurant kitchens and construction, doesn't mean that the percentages of illegal labor that I quoted are too low. Not all hispanics, you know, are illegal aliens. The vast majority - upwards of 75% - 80% of "jobs Americans won't do" [in the context of the debate around illegal aliens, this should really be read as "jobs legally employable workers won't do" in order to keep the debate on focus] are actually done by those legally able to work in the US. The small percentage of illegals amount to no cost benefit to you and me on the product we consume but to a cost benefit only for those that employ them. You and I get to pay the bills that the illegal aliens incur while here against the law. I'd rather not pay those bills anymore. Maybe you can pick up my share seeing that you'd like to keep them all here...

Edited May 27, 2007 by ET-US2004

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That would be nice if the illegals go back home and never come back for good lol.

At the same time,, we want our fresh produce at the grocery cheap

Who's we? Speak for yourself! Cheap cucumbers aren't so cheap when people look at the big picture. It's not so simplistic or really so cheap.

Come on Peejay, don't get so indignant about my comment made somewhat sardonically. Any politically aware person can grasp the complexity of this illegal immigration issue, and yet we are all caught up in this American conundrum. Americans, we -yes that includes you and me- want the best deal possible without realizing or wanting to realize the cost that comes attached to that best deal we sought or the lifestyle we've become used to. Yes, because you are tuned in to the illegal immigrant issue you'd be willing to pay more for the produce harvested without illegal alien labor.

That's selective indignation because many- perhaps you including, engage in actions daily that undermine our short- term and long-term interest. Like, clinging on to the SUVs ( example of profligate energy use) despite the fact that our oil dependency keeps the dictators of the of oil producing countries strong and able to act against OUR( read US) interest with impunity. We are sickened by the atrocities that the Chinese Communist regime perpetrate on their own people like executing prisoners to harvest organs. But, let me ask you how many American shoppers are deterred by these atrocities from flocking to Walmart or Saks Fifth Avenue or Best Buy or where ever a good deal can be found ? Yes, I am mad at those big money guys from Agro Businesses and construction industry and meat and poultry industries and you name it, who are pushing for legislation and loopholes that will sustain the supply of cheap labor. But, WE the majority of American should each bear some burden of guilt for exercising our inherent right to pursue happiness often with little thought for those actions that certainly have and will come back to hurt us.O.K, that's my rant

That was a beautiful rant!

I have yet to find the cheaper cucumber that the illegal picked. Is there a separate shelf in the grocery somewhere where I can get the bargains that illegal labor affords me? I mean, 75% of the produce is picked by legally employed individuals leaving only 25% to be picked by illegal labor. Same goes for the restaurant where I am still searching for that 15-20% niche that will offer the savings of illegal labor to me. So, where does one go for the actual savings?

Oh, that's right. The savings ain't for the consumer. It's just for the profiteer that employs the illegal alien.

I'm not sure where you found those percentages, but I'm certain I've read those percentages were much higher. At the risk of sounding anecdotal - just go see how many non-hispanics you can find harvesting the crops or in the kitchens of restaurant across the country. And that's no accident. California was importing seasonal migrant workers for agriculture for the last century - we even made it legal for them to be here...imagine that.

There's your central issue, Steven. Just because you see a lot of hispanics in agriculture, restaurant kitchens and construction, doesn't mean that the percentages of illegal labor that I quoted are too low. Not all hispanics, you know, are illegal aliens. The vast majority - upwards of 75% - 80% of "jobs Americans won't do" [in the context of the debate around illegal aliens, this should really be read as "jobs legally employable workers won't do" in order to keep the debate on focus] are actually done by those legally able to work in the US. The small percentage of illegals amount to no cost benefit to you and me on the product we consume but to a cost benefit only for those that employ them. You and I get to pay the bills that the illegal aliens incur while here against the law. I'd rather not pay those bills anymore. Maybe you can pick up my share seeing that you'd like to keep them all here...

I agree with you in principle about employers being the biggest benefactor in the cases where illegals are be paid under the table, although some of that savings is passed onto the consumer, particularly with agriculture. But in the case of most restaurants, particularly high profile chains, there are regulations already in place (since the immigration reform from 1986) where an employer must provide documentation. And the dilemna is exactly what you said - an employer can't assume that just because someone is hispanic and speaks little English, they are not here illegally (although if an applicant is in their early twenties and they don't speak a lick of English, chances are they haven't lived here long).

I'm not in favor of maintaining a status quo with our current situation. My argument all along has to with questioning why illegals being here has all of sudden become a hot button topic and why so many people get emotional over it. Yes, I understand the numbers have increased but again as you just pointed out - none of us can see these extra numbers of illegals - you can't walk down the street and point out the illegals from citizens. What I hear is nothing but rhetoric about how much it's costing us when there is evidence that all of us are benefitting through lower cost items. Cheap labor is a ongoing issue/problem of its own - factory jobs have all but disappeared in this country and you can't blame that on illegal immigration.

I see no single, reasonable solution beyond revamping our trade agreements and changing our relationship with Mexico economically. Allowing employer sponsered visas for low skilled laborers gives those workers legitimacy and the chance to stand up for rights against exploitation. Those two factors would take the heat out of the argument - that they are here illegally and once Mexico's economy improves - we will see a dramatic reduction in Mexicans crossing the border illegally.

So no I won't join you and others letting my emotions get in the way of looking at this pragmatically. Big deal if on the surface it seems unfair to give so many temporary visas as long as they are work based and they must go through the same process as us if they choose to become citizens. I do not think that most of them came here to become citizens (that they somehow have a hatred for their own country). It's an economic issue and so I'll continue to challenge the rhetoric thrown around about illegals like they are vermin, stealing our jobs, our country, bringing diseases, speaking Spanish, living in clown houses, raping our women, threatening our security, etc., etc. ...nothing but hot air and much of it IMO is bigotry.

Edited May 27, 2007 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I have yet to find the cheaper cucumber that the illegal picked. Is there a separate shelf in the grocery somewhere where I can get the bargains that illegal labor affords me? I mean, 75% of the produce is picked by legally employed individuals leaving only 25% to be picked by illegal labor. Same goes for the restaurant where I am still searching for that 15-20% niche that will offer the savings of illegal labor to me. So, where does one go for the actual savings?

Oh, that's right. The savings ain't for the consumer. It's just for the profiteer that employs the illegal alien.

I'm not sure where you found those percentages, but I'm certain I've read those percentages were much higher. At the risk of sounding anecdotal - just go see how many non-hispanics you can find harvesting the crops or in the kitchens of restaurant across the country. And that's no accident. California was importing seasonal migrant workers for agriculture for the last century - we even made it legal for them to be here...imagine that.

There's your central issue, Steven. Just because you see a lot of hispanics in agriculture, restaurant kitchens and construction, doesn't mean that the percentages of illegal labor that I quoted are too low. Not all hispanics, you know, are illegal aliens. The vast majority - upwards of 75% - 80% of "jobs Americans won't do" [in the context of the debate around illegal aliens, this should really be read as "jobs legally employable workers won't do" in order to keep the debate on focus] are actually done by those legally able to work in the US. The small percentage of illegals amount to no cost benefit to you and me on the product we consume but to a cost benefit only for those that employ them. You and I get to pay the bills that the illegal aliens incur while here against the law. I'd rather not pay those bills anymore. Maybe you can pick up my share seeing that you'd like to keep them all here...

I agree with you in principle about employers being the biggest benefactor in the cases where illegals are be paid under the table, although some of that savings is passed onto the consumer, particularly with agriculture.

Then I ask again, where do I go for the discounted produce that illegals have picked at lower cost? I haven't found the "lower price thanks to illegals" shelf in the store just yet. But I'll keep looking.

What I hear is nothing but rhetoric about how much it's costing us when there is evidence that all of us are benefitting through lower cost items. Cheap labor is a ongoing issue/problem of its own - factory jobs have all but disappeared in this country and you can't blame that on illegal immigration.

Again, I don't see the lower cost items. I'd appreciate if you could point me in the right direction. The relative disappearance of factory jobs (there's a lot of them around still and that'll continue to be the case) has indeed nothing to do with the illegals in the country. Those jobs are being shipped off no matter what. That said, having the number of illegal workers increase dramatically in the sectors that cannot be shipped overseas while factory jobs are shipped out really adds insult to injury for the American worker. That may just be part of the reason that the tolerance for illegal aliens is dropping. I am quite certain that if it was you whose job was affected by this problem, you'd be singing a different tune.

I see no single, reasonable solution beyond revamping our trade agreements and changing our relationship with Mexico economically.

I think it was mawilson who pointed out earlier that the sharp increase in number of illegal aliens started prior to NAFTA. Blaming NAFTA for it simply doesn't work. While there are, of course, economic reasons for this migration, we should not surrender to aliens that demonstrate day in and day out that they think they are above our law. As a nation, we have the right to define our immigration policy (one of the most open policies you'll find just about anywhere in the world, by the way) as much as other nations do. And we have a right to enforce them just as much as other nations do.

And no, I won't respond to your rant at the end of your post.