Marriage Agreements

[genem 0]

I just met with my Fiancee in St. Petersburg. Previously, she had been excited and anxious to get to America ASAP, but this trip she seemed nervous and apprehensive. She finally mentioned that she was unsure about her future and asked if i would prepare a marriage agreement. I said i would. But to me, the man, it appeared that either she did not trust our marriage to work or maybe had talked to someone who suggested a marriage agreement to be sure that if the marriage did not work, that she would get compensated for it. First, i would like to get everyone's opinion on why you think she may have asked for the marriage agreement, and, second, what should be included in the marriage agreement that would be fair for both of us. I would like her compensation in the agreement to be based on years of marriage to me. If the marriage only last one year or less, i do not think she should get much from me because it might be a reason for her to divorce me. As the marriage years are added, i believe the assets or compensation should increase. She is much younger than me and i know that she wants to leave Russia and come to America so i do not feel she needs any more reasons for a divorce once she gets over here. Please give me your opinions on everything regarding marriage agreements. Thanks

Edited February 25, 2007 by genem

[PCKAA 0]

oh boy.. the marriage itselfs is a legal agreement, to love cherish, honour, whatever.. in sickness and in health.. isn't that enough? Have you assured her that you will look after her WHILE you are married?

Having a legal agreement as to how much money you will PAY her after you get divorced is a bit shocking to read about..

I would have a serious conversation about this with her...and i would think twice about her intentions too.. Maybe its just the way your post reads but it sounds like shes after something other than living the rest of her with you..

[truffles 2]

I am not sure what you are asking for?....Each relationship is different - the real questions regarding a marraige is that both parties really love each other and are willing to work to make the other happy. Before i agreed to get married to my other half we had been "dating" for 3 years - i have a generous leave allowance which meant i could visit my other half at least 2 times each year - there is a age gap between us and i also considered all aspect - with age comes illness and such - would i be willing to be there in his sickness without resentment ? will he be there in mine?......personally if i put a pre nuptial agreement in place it would feel a little like edging my bets ....i am only speaking for myself but in the event of a divorce then the law usually decided what is fair and what is not fair?. Perhaps others will be able to give more enlightenment but perhaps you need to find out what a agreement would actually give her - perhaps find out exactly what she thinks the agreement should mean ......the particulars because if she has mentioned it then she may even have specifics.....Good Luck

[genem 0]

oh boy.. the marriage itselfs is a legal agreement, to love cherish, honour, whatever.. in sickness and in health.. isn't that enough? Have you assured her that you will look after her WHILE you are married?

Having a legal agreement as to how much money you will PAY her after you get divorced is a bit shocking to read about..

I would have a serious conversation about this with her...and i would think twice about her intentions too.. Maybe its just the way your post reads but it sounds like shes after something other than living the rest of her with you..

Yes, i understand all the above from a man's point of view. But not to forget, for a 41 year old woman with a 14 year old son, moving to another country from her homeland and relatives can be a shocking & stressful experience. A woman's insecurity can lead to a lot of stress and emotional actions so i understand to some degree her wanting some security from me other than just promises. I have assured her several times that i will take care of her and her son, but we have only been together 2 times and corresponded for 4 months and no one knows what the future will bring. Thanks for your comments.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Sounds to me like you two need to have a serious talk. Is she giving up a lucrative career? Bringing with her substantial wealth or assets which you might conceivably claim after divorce? She could just be concerned that she will come here, marry you, then you will divorce her and she will be left to fend for herself? Prenuptial agreements are more common when one or both parties to a marriage possess substantial pre-marital assets. You will be on the financial hook until she becomes a US citizen, married or divorced, so the best advice I can give you is to have a long heart to heart talk with her and find out what she is thinking.

I don't think you should enter the conversation with a worst case scenario in your head though.

[genem 0]

I am not sure what you are asking for?....Each relationship is different - the real questions regarding a marraige is that both parties really love each other and are willing to work to make the other happy. Before i agreed to get married to my other half we had been "dating" for 3 years - i have a generous leave allowance which meant i could visit my other half at least 2 times each year - there is a age gap between us and i also considered all aspect - with age comes illness and such - would i be willing to be there in his sickness without resentment ? will he be there in mine?......personally if i put a pre nuptial agreement in place it would feel a little like edging my bets ....i am only speaking for myself but in the event of a divorce then the law usually decided what is fair and what is not fair?. Perhaps others will be able to give more enlightenment but perhaps you need to find out what a agreement would actually give her - perhaps find out exactly what she thinks the agreement should mean ......the particulars because if she has mentioned it then she may even have specifics.....Good Luck

Actually, i did ask her what she wanted or expected in the agreement and she could not answer, "assurance" was as specific as she got. I do feel that i am very close to loving her but that she is not as close to loving me yet. I do feel it will come with more time. Because of my age and the length of time for visas, plus her anxiousness to get out of Russia and to America, we have rushed it a bit, no doubt.

[genem 0]

Sounds to me like you two need to have a serious talk. Is she giving up a lucrative career? Bringing with her substantial wealth or assets which you might conceivably claim after divorce? She could just be concerned that she will come here, marry you, then you will divorce her and she will be left to fend for herself? Prenuptial agreements are more common when one or both parties to a marriage possess substantial pre-marital assets. You will be on the financial hook until she becomes a US citizen, married or divorced, so the best advice I can give you is to have a long heart to heart talk with her and find out what she is thinking.

I don't think you should enter the conversation with a worst case scenario in your head though.

No, she has no money, i don't have much. But i do have 2 children i would like to leave my few assets with if she doesn't at least make an attempt to have the marriage work. That is my only concern. I tried to talk to her in St. Pete about the agreement last week but i do not think she really knew anything about it. We met online thru a internet agency and she said she would talk to them to see what the agreement should say. I am thinking that is also where the idea of an agreement came from.

[truffles 2]

Alarm bells!!!! Whoa did you say " I am very close to loving her"......this kind of path should only be taken when you KNOW you love and and you KNOW she loves you back.....and the reason why you should KNOW is exactly becuase of what is required - the process of K1 is hard work on its own and if there are ANY doubts this process will magnify them...ask anyone who has been through it - they will tell you it is stressfull. Please think LONG and HARD about YOUR motives as well as hers

[vanee 13]

Those alarm bells were pretty loud.

It's possible that her concerns are about being stuck in a foreign country without enough money if the marriage fails. You could offer to put in a pre-nup that if the marriage fails, you'll pay the expenses for her and her son to return to Russia and maybe a bit more. If she doesn't go for that, then perhaps being with you isn't what it's about for her. When the question has come up in other threads, just about all the non-USCs have said that if it weren't for their USC fiance or spouse, they'd stay in or go back to their own country.

[genem 0]

Those alarm bells were pretty loud.

It's possible that her concerns are about being stuck in a foreign country without enough money if the marriage fails. You could offer to put in a pre-nup that if the marriage fails, you'll pay the expenses for her and her son to return to Russia and maybe a bit more. If she doesn't go for that, then perhaps being with you isn't what it's about for her. When the question has come up in other threads, just about all the non-USCs have said that if it weren't for their USC fiance or spouse, they'd stay in or go back to their own country.

Vanee, thanks for the comment. I know that is her concern. I did tell her i would pay their way back and give them $1,000 if the marriage lasted less than a year and she was shocked and insulted but would never say what she expected from me. I think right now she thinks she would want to stay in USA for her son, but after being over here for a while, she might change her mind and want to go back.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Those alarm bells were pretty loud.

It's possible that her concerns are about being stuck in a foreign country without enough money if the marriage fails. You could offer to put in a pre-nup that if the marriage fails, you'll pay the expenses for her and her son to return to Russia and maybe a bit more. If she doesn't go for that, then perhaps being with you isn't what it's about for her. When the question has come up in other threads, just about all the non-USCs have said that if it weren't for their USC fiance or spouse, they'd stay in or go back to their own country.

Vanee, thanks for the comment. I know that is her concern. I did tell her i would pay their way back and give them $1,000 if the marriage lasted less than a year and she was shocked and insulted but would never say what she expected from me. I think right now she thinks she would want to stay in USA for her son, but after being over here for a while, she might change her mind and want to go back.

Marriages can and do fail. Of any type. If she is apparently motivated by bringing herself and her son here, and not by the prospect of marrying you and spending their lives together with you as a family, then you should very seriously consider if this is a path you want to take. At some point, she may discover she can leave you and still stay in the USA. This will NOT mean you are no longer responsible for keeping her off of public welfare...

There are red flags all over your posts, concerning you feeling like the two of you will eventually love each other. You are swearing you love each other now, and are both seriously committed to marriage when she gets here. Concerning her apparently wanting reassurance that she and her son will stay in Russia whether you remain married or not. Some of your discussions could be tainted by the difficulty of the language barrier. Since she is Russian, English would be her second language, and even if she is reasonably fluent i.e. you understand what she says, that does not mean she is adequately expressing what she means. What may sound like a selfish demand for monitary assurance may only be her trying to express to you what she has been told by the agency you mentioned as being a good idea. Or it could well be your signal to run fast, run far, and withdraw from your petition immediately!

Only you can know how you feel about her. Only she knows what she is really feeling about you, and about coming here to marry you. I hate to read into your posts things that aren't there, but seriously it does sound like you need to take a step back and think about what you are doing. This is a very serious commitment.

Good luck whatever you should decide.

[AngelD 0]

I just met with my Fiancee in St. Petersburg. Previously, she had been excited and anxious to get to America ASAP, but this trip she seemed nervous and apprehensive. She finally mentioned that she was unsure about her future and asked if i would prepare a marriage agreement. I said i would. But to me, the man, it appeared that either she did not trust our marriage to work or maybe had talked to someone who suggested a marriage agreement to be sure that if the marriage did not work, that she would get compensated for it. First, i would like to get everyone's opinion on why you think she may have asked for the marriage agreement, and, second, what should be included in the marriage agreement that would be fair for both of us. I would like her compensation in the agreement to be based on years of marriage to me. If the marriage only last one year or less, i do not think she should get much from me because it might be a reason for her to divorce me. As the marriage years are added, i believe the assets or compensation should increase. She is much younger than me and i know that she wants to leave Russia and come to America so i do not feel she needs any more reasons for a divorce once she gets over here. Please give me your opinions on everything regarding marriage agreements. Thanks

I'm not sure what was discussed as far as an "agreement"-like was it all about the money? But here is what I wrote to another fellow with fiancee issues and what your fiancee may--or maynot be feeling. I have also thought for a second or two about an agreement-something that would maybe say that if for some reason things didn't work out I could at least get me and my kids back to Canada since I won't be working right away. We're not really going to need anything like that and California is a community division state so if we got divorced we would split things anyway. But like any marriage you need to have all these issues discussed just like whether you are going to have kids or both work or your plans to retire etc. I wouldn't take it too personally yet. It may just be a real need on her part to know that she isn't leaving her life behind for a whim (it's not like you are dating for years while living 2 blocks away and all she has to do is move in with you)

What follows is just how I feel as the foreign fiancee--hope it helps a little

I am the Canadain marrying a USC. I love him, he loves me. We've been together for 2 years and now have a wonderful 9 month old daughter together. It's been hard to be a family from 2700 hundred miles away (he has a 9 year old daughter and I have a 14 year old girl and 13 year old boy) not to mention new parents with the distance. We have only just sent in our petition last week.

As a woman with 2 kids that I have raised on my own, I have a life. A great job, a house (rental), friends, family. my kids have friends, boy/girlfriends, school, favorite hang outs and a life. We love our country (it's Canada -other than winter, what's not to love?). We don't live in poverty, we don't suffer from disease or have to live through wars or other unimaginable atrocities. We speak english and have health care. As much I love my fiance, as much as my kids love him like the father they have never known, as much as I love my step daughter, and as much as I love the thought of no more frikkin winter-----this is the hardest thing I have ever done. I spend weeks at a time crying over not being able to be with him everyday. Feeling like we are living two barely crossing lives. Like I am missing so much not being there with him. Or even worse, how much he is missing of our daughter's life. But even though my desire to be with him in the states as a family consumes my every thought every day and night-even when I am here in California with him--I am scared to death!

My children and I have to move--something I hate even if it is a block away. We started to sift through our lives-lives we built together one step at a time-to determine what bits and bobs will make it to the states. What do we feel is insignifacant and should be left behind. thrown out, sold. It's expensive to ship everything there and who wants to have to buy everything all over again? The kids have to switch schools (something they have had to do only once when we relocated within the province of ontario so I could get a better job--they were very young and bounced back quickly and I promised it would never happen again) They have to leave their friends and loved ones behind and start over. Some of these friends have been there for 7 years (and yes they will make more-we know that as adults but kids rarely see beyond next week). They will promise to stay in touch but we know that will never happen-it's $700 to fly and none of them can afford it. I struggle with the hope that they know that this move is in our best interest, and hope they know that we both love them so much that all we want to do is be a family. I hope that in the end they don't hate us for making them move to a new country because mommy is in love.

I have a great job that offers me full benefits in the field I am trained in. I have earned my title there and the perks that go with it and have forged relationships. It will be hard to leave. And I am afraid that I may never find the same kind of work here. Certainly not right away at the same pay.

We have health care--FREE--in Canada. Not so here. It is outrageous-especially with 3 extra kids and woman of child bearing years.

Toronto, Ontario has snow--but we don't have earthquakes-we aren't sinking into the ocean, we don't have war, we don't have Bush (no offense)

I know where the good grocery stores are and the cheapest place to buy things. I don't need a car (gas, insurance, repairs $$$$) because we have a great transit system.

In Toronto, I stand on my own. I support my family and myself. If there is a problem, I know where to go to fix it.

In the US, if anything goes wrong--god forbid--we get divorced, he dies or whatever-there is no safety net. That sucks.

I love him, he loves me and together we love all our kids. But it doesnt' mean that it isn't the scariest thing on earth to think about leaving your country. The security of everything you know and love. I can't even imagine how hard it is for anyone going through this who is coming from a country that is tremendously different to the United States. The language and cultural differences alone must be frightening. Yes, there are perks and some will have a better life for it. But there is something to be said for the devil you know.

Sorry to rant---I hope this gives you a little insight into what may be going on in her head. Of the heads of many (not all) of the non-USC Signifigant Others out there.

WE LOVE YOU USC'S, and we sacrafice a large part of ourselves to be with you as you do for us.

[Jetson 0]

Genem,

I do not know what your assets are or how old you are, but personally I think that marrying these days without a prenuptial is only asking for trouble. I know this is not the type of discussion that can create trust or romance but the reality is; are you willing to give up all you have been working all your life to build, like ½ of your retirement or your home to someone you may end up being married perhaps just a couple of years?

I know, trust and love and all. Not arguing these points but the reality in life is that there are no guaranties and being smart about protecting one’s assets is not unreasonable. In fact I would be acting irresponsible if I did not, in particular if you have children from a previous marriage.

Remember that as a rule these ladies from shall we say less fortunate countries, (divorced or not) most likely are not getting anything for themselves and/or child from their previous husband. Why do think that is? They know they can get something from you and that is fine if you care for them. These ladies want some sort of security; work out something with them but for heaven sake be smart about it. The silver lining is that if things do work out for you and you love each other and remain married, you always have the option of ripping up the agreement at a future date; once you are assured you both will remain together. Let’s be sensible and not emotional about this. Your lady is certainly smart and sensible about it; the way I understand it she seem to be the one that initiated the subject and therefore understand the ramifications of not having a prenuptial. She is looking for some guaranties and you should also.

There is another twist to this. Have you thought that perhaps she is suggesting this contract as a way of her reassuring you she is not interested in your money or assets but only in the security you can offer her? These ladies know that western men are much more progressive and able to provide this security. She may be preempting you as her way to make herself more appealing to your western way of thinking. Hard to say.

Now, this is my two cents worth so please for those of you that do not agree with me do not shoot the messenger. I am just answering the question that was posed.

Good luck.

I just met with my Fiancee in St. Petersburg. Previously, she had been excited and anxious to get to America ASAP, but this trip she seemed nervous and apprehensive. She finally mentioned that she was unsure about her future and asked if i would prepare a marriage agreement. I said i would. But to me, the man, it appeared that either she did not trust our marriage to work or maybe had talked to someone who suggested a marriage agreement to be sure that if the marriage did not work, that she would get compensated for it. First, i would like to get everyone's opinion on why you think she may have asked for the marriage agreement, and, second, what should be included in the marriage agreement that would be fair for both of us. I would like her compensation in the agreement to be based on years of marriage to me. If the marriage only last one year or less, i do not think she should get much from me because it might be a reason for her to divorce me. As the marriage years are added, i believe the assets or compensation should increase. She is much younger than me and i know that she wants to leave Russia and come to America so i do not feel she needs any more reasons for a divorce once she gets over here. Please give me your opinions on everything regarding marriage agreements. Thanks

[patiently_waiting 0]

I haven't read every reply, but I saw so many red flags going up in what you wrote. Now she wants and agreement, you are close to loveing her, u rushed this no doubt...sounds like there are a lot of questions that still need to be answered before marrying her. It seems to me that you are recognizing these flags or you would not have posted here. Think it through. My father and step mom have an marriage agreement. It basically states what percentage he is financially responsible for in the marriage and what percentage she is responsible for. Additionally, there is a section about children bron of the marriage and things like that. Hope you put a lot of thought in to all of this.

[NYGirl 0]

Genem,

I do not mean to upset you even more than what you are but let me tell you something.....MANY MANY MANY russian women will agree into anything just to come to US. I am NOT saying all of them but MANY. One of the things that got into my mind is this : why was/is she in such a rush to leave Russia??? I think we all know the answer to that and cost of living in Moscow and St. Petersburg is up the roof. It looks like one of her main reasons why she wants to leave Russia is because of her son so he could have many opportunities in here and many open doors which are not that easy in Russia unless you got money. Why is she thinking about "what if marriage won't work" before you guys even got married? Why does she want an agreement? It sounds as if she's ONLY AFTER YOUR MONEY AND GREEN CARD. Be VERY CAREFUL. I am Russian myself ( but came here when i was 12 through a LEGAL IMMIGRATION as a refugee, when many Russian-Jews were immigrating) I know many russian people who will use each other for green card and are willing to pay up to $30,000 for fraud marriage. Sounds like your SO got herself into a better deal, she doesn't have to pay all that to get in US. I have read on many russian dating sites that ladies were looking for a "foreign lover" especially someone from US so obviously what your fiancee is saying is a huge RED FLAG. She should be thinking about happy love and marriage she'll have with you and everything that will come along with it rather than thinking " how much will you leave her if things don't work out" Be very careful.

Do some test on her...........tell her that you loved St. Petersburg so much that you want to move there and live there and see what she'll say. If she'll agree then she truly loves you and it won't matter where the two of you are but if she'll still hint about coming to US then her intentions are documents only.

Best of luck and hope things work out for the best!

P.S. I did NOT try to offend anyone who is bring anyone from russia or ukraine!!!!!!!