i love liberals!

[homesick_american 1]

Bill Clinton is such a pompous a$$hole though; are people still naive enough to fall for his #######?

Oh I SO agree.

Get your eyes checked or get rid of that reinterpreter of statements you've installed on your computer. Twisting people's words is one thing, blatantly changing them shows a lack of ethics and morals evidencing not a true Christian but a true hypocrite.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yet up to the United Nations General Assembly podium strode Iranian “President” Mahmoud Ahmadinejad last week, renouncing American policy and America’s president. A day later, that same forum witnessed Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, similarly attacking President Bush, to the point of calling him “The Devil.” To the dismay of the left, the general public readily recognizes that these attacks from foreign leaders precisely echo the “patriotism” regularly being spewed by liberal Democrats.

Despite the desperate attempts of Democrat leaders to distance themselves from the UN spectacle, the parallels between their words, and more importantly, their motives, as compared to those of the two hostile foreign leaders, have become irrefutable. Their cover has been blown.

If the liberal Democrats can claim, by virtue of their subversive and consistently anti-American rhetoric of the past several years, that such behavior is indeed “patriotic,” then so must it be concluded that Ahmadinejad and Chavez are also great American “patriots.”

Oh so TRUE!

Thanks for reproducing the gunk from the conservative news media.

Sure, it's easy to believe in a "vast left-wing conspiracy," but maybe it is time to stop conflating critics of the Bush-administration and their minions in congress with political leaders opposed to the US.

When Ahmadinejad levels his attacks on the US, he does that with his own population in mind and for retribution purposes (see Bush's speech the same day which was a similarly frontal attack on Iran). Same goes for Chavez, who views himself as another victim of American propaganda and in a way does nothing but rebut the Bush-administration's attack on him. You harvest what you sow is probably the best way to explain that.

In contrast, critics of the Bush-administration in the US are actually concerned about America. When some democrat or left-winger lashes out at Bush, it is not in retribution but because the administration is betraying American values. But why am I even trying to explain this to you; it's not like you would stop taking the words of the right-wing media as the absolute truth.

Indeed - and these people who constantly bemoan alleged foreign anti-americanism can't seem to find an angle on it other than that "foreigners" are somehow predisposed to hate america. Of course when America is represented by people who can't make simple distinctions between media soundbites and party political talking points - it doesn't seem to be much of a surprise.

Please answer these simple questions:

why do you have the freedom of speech?

how did this right come about?

How many died for this right?

were you born in the U.S.

Do you love America? If yes why?

Is president Bush EVIL ?

Why is President Bush like HITLER? if yes HOW?

I'll answer your simple questions when you answer my simple questions about liberals that I've posed to you throughout this thread. You don't get something for nothing my friend.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

From the other thread.

It has not been pointed out - vague references to a personal experience about Fahrenheit 9/11 is not proof

You name several people including Bill Clinton and the guy who responded to Chavez' comments - please prove to me how you consider these people are liberal. I'm not saying they aren't - just curious as to what in your book constitutes a liberal.

I'm not asking a question that can't be answered - BTW. And no, it has not been answered. It's been skipped over many many times.

Incanada called me a Liberal and told me to re-read my previous posts (as some sort of treasure trove of alleged liberalism).

I asked Infidel in a previous thread to point out people in US politics who he/she considered liberal and why - he/she wouldn't/couldn't.

Similarly you've thrown out a string of assumptions with no qualifying basis.

If this country is so overrun with liberals, and liberals are destroying this country - you should have no problem finding examples should you?

Edited October 1, 2006 by erekose

[Fuzzness 2]

InCanada and Stina, if someone prays that I figure out how to live like they do (less Jew-y, more Christian-y), I do not feel very respected. What is respect? Just saying that you respect someone?

Someone's praying for you?

That would be one more than is praying for you

Charles Nelson Reilly rules!

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Please answer these simple questions:

why do you have the freedom of speech?

Because, as Steven pointed out, a bunch of people in the eighteenth century decided that would be a good thing. Why did they decide so? Because they read a bunch of mostly French books explaining how a good society balanced individual freedoms with communal responsibility, meaning idea of freedom is based on the idea of reciprocity between governing and governed.

However, while this principle was enshrined in the bill of rights (not the declaration of independence or the constitution), it was abridged by the governing authorities as early as 1797. Why? Because the governing authorities viewed popular dissent (particularly by supporters of the opposing party) as a threat to their unabated power. Interestingly, rather than telling people they didn't have the freedom of speech anymore, the Adams administration just called everyone who disagreed a foreign spy, hence the moniker Alien and Sedition Act. Most shocking fact in this context: Th. Jefferson himself was accused of posing a threat to the government and Americans and was sought for trial by some town in Connecticut.

how did this right come about?

See above. The right came about because of the insufficiencies of the constitution. Importantly, it is an outgrowth of the French enlightenment. The revolution itself has nothing to do with it, as it was primarily fought over taxation and imperial expansion (no the British did not want their colonial subjects to move west of the thirteen colonies).

How many died for this right?

Lots of people but not during official battlefield actions. The Freedom of Speech has been abridged way too often and every time people (many of whom are unnamed and still branded traitors) died. What is happening now is just another episode of oppression in the name of patriotism.

were you born in the U.S.

No, but I live here. And I do consider this question an insult because it suggests that only native born Americans have the right to free speech or to speak their mind. But as the Alien and Sedition Act and all the other incursions on free speech demonstrate, this move is typical of a certain brand of people who do not understand the right to free speech as reciprocal.

Do you love America? If yes why?

Yes, I do, but not in the same way you do. America happens to be my work, and I am heavily invested in preserving the spirit of the constitution in everything I do.

For me, American is not some thing that only lives in symbols, such as the flag, the pledge, the larger-than-life images of the founders (all of which are meaningless because they obscure the beauty with a bunch of empty phrases). No, America is the here and now, the blood spillled by those excluded from the political process, and the past which is rich and more than just a list of military victories.

Is president Bush EVIL ?

How do I know, I haven't met him. I also don't consider people to be plain evil. I believe Bush is acting against America because rather than focusing on the communal good and communal responsibility he furthers individual interests, thus abolishing the central tenet of reciprocity so dear to the founders. The word "evil" oversimplifies the complex nature of the problem.

Why is President Bush like HITLER? if yes HOW?

Dude, that is possible the least appealing of your questions because it attests to your indoctrination. The answer is fairly simple. No, Bush is not like Hitler. For one thing, he lacks the intelligence; for another, Hitler was a decorated war veteran who defended his nation in WW I. There are, however, certain parallels concerning their understanding of national security (to secure a nation you need to abridge the rights of its inhabitants) and of their office (the leader of a country should hold as much power as humanly possible; hence democratic process are deemed dangerous and information that needs to be accessible to the general public to ensure democratic dialogue is classified)

But since I have just answered your questions, I'd like to hear your answers to the following:

1a.) What is a liberal? And please don't give me some blanket answer but take the time to provide your own personal explication together with some concrete examples.

1b.) Why are liberals endangering America?

2.) Why was it ok to impeach Clinton over a stained dressed but not ok to even question Bush's decisions in the aftermath of 9/11?

3.) What does the Patriot Act have to do with Patriotism if it defeats the tenets of the founders?

4.) If we assume the War of Independence and the War of 1812 was fought to ensure liberty to Americans, then how can we defend any war that abridges those liberties?

5.) Why do we always need to blame foreigners for everything that is wrong with this country?

6.) Why do we view America as an anti-imperialist nation and a champion of the oppressed around the world? What does the colonial legacy tell us about America's colonialism?

Edited October 1, 2006 by Fischkoepfin

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But since I have just answered your questions, I'd like to hear your answers to the following:

1a.) What is a liberal? And please don't give me some blanket answer but take the time to provide your own personal explication together with some concrete examples.

1b.) Why are liberals endangering America?

2.) Why was it ok to impeach Clinton over a stained dressed but not ok to even question Bush's decisions in the aftermath of 9/11?

3.) What does the Patriot Act have to do with Patriotism if it defeats the tenets of the founders?

4.) If we assume the War of Independence and the War of 1812 was fought to ensure liberty to Americans, then how can we defend any war that abridges those liberties?

5.) Why do we always need to blame foreigners for everything that is wrong with this country?

6.) Why do we view America as an anti-imperialist nation and a champion of the oppressed around the world? What does the colonial legacy tell us about America's colonialism?

There's a challenge I fully expect to go unanswered

[Carol&Marc 0]

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

Edited October 1, 2006 by Carol&Marc

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

You've figured that out eh?

Others have answered your questions - you haven't answered any.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

I answered your questions, which means that I didn't answer your question with questions but rather thought it only fair to get some of my questions answered. Alternatively, you could of course respond to my answers, which would at least indicate that you read my answers and understood them.

I do understand that the questions I posted might be too difficult...

[Carol&Marc 0]

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

You've figured that out eh?

Others have answered your questions - you haven't answered any.

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

I answered your questions, which means that I didn't answer your question with questions but rather thought it only fair to get some of my questions answered. Alternatively, you could of course respond to my answers, which would at least indicate that you read my answers and understood them.

I do understand that the questions I posted might be too difficult...

They are not answers! they are simple anti american opinions!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

They are not answers! they are simple anti american opinions!

Go back to your cave.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

You've figured that out eh?

Others have answered your questions - you haven't answered any.

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

I answered your questions, which means that I didn't answer your question with questions but rather thought it only fair to get some of my questions answered. Alternatively, you could of course respond to my answers, which would at least indicate that you read my answers and understood them.

I do understand that the questions I posted might be too difficult...

They are not answers! they are simple anti american opinions!

Oh Jesus.... You really don't read anything do you?

I've no doubt that you won't qualify that statement. Regardless, a one line rant doesn't even qualify as a "Tirade"...

[Carol&Marc 0]

They are not answers! they are simple anti american opinions!

Go back to your cave.

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

You've figured that out eh?

Others have answered your questions - you haven't answered any.

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

I answered your questions, which means that I didn't answer your question with questions but rather thought it only fair to get some of my questions answered. Alternatively, you could of course respond to my answers, which would at least indicate that you read my answers and understood them.

I do understand that the questions I posted might be too difficult...

They are not answers! they are simple anti american opinions!

Oh Jesus.... You really don't read anything do you?

I've no doubt that you won't qualify that statement. Regardless, a one line rant doesn't even qualify as a "Tirade"...

Typical liberal anger! I was wondering when it would rear its ugly head! LMAO!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

They are not answers! they are simple anti american opinions!

Go back to your cave.

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

You've figured that out eh?

Others have answered your questions - you haven't answered any.

Answering questions with more questions isnt an answer!

I answered your questions, which means that I didn't answer your question with questions but rather thought it only fair to get some of my questions answered. Alternatively, you could of course respond to my answers, which would at least indicate that you read my answers and understood them.

I do understand that the questions I posted might be too difficult...

They are not answers! they are simple anti american opinions!

Oh Jesus.... You really don't read anything do you?

I've no doubt that you won't qualify that statement. Regardless, a one line rant doesn't even qualify as a "Tirade"...

Typical liberal anger! I was wondering when it would rear its ugly head! LMAO!!

Right....

Just wondering if you'll point out which parts of Fischkoepfin's answers you consider to be "anti-american", and then perhaps do him/her the courteousy of answering his/her questions after taking the time to post answers to yours (the same questions which I and others have been asking over the last few weeks - which apparently you guys are unable or "unqualified", as you might say, to answer.

BTW - I'm not angry. I just find your constant ducking, diving and red-faced ranting (when confronted with contrary opinions) to be quite humourous. You really do have nothing with which to back up your assumptions do you. So yes, in your eyes I am a liberal - quite apart from whether I actually am. But its really all academic, because you simply can't back it up. That my friend, is a Catch-22

Edited October 1, 2006 by erekose

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Typical liberal anger! I was wondering when it would rear its ugly head! LMAO!!

As opposed to conservative anger, which is what?