Unemployed? Tough ѕhit

[mawilson 2,133]

In an unusual display in the normally sleepy chamber, Bunning – without the support of GOP leadership – has blocked efforts to quickly approve a series of extensions to measures that would otherwise expire Sunday, including unemployment insurance and the Cobra program that allows people who lose their health benefits to continue getting coverage.

Can't keep extending unemployment benefits indefinitely if you want people to get off their butts and find a job.

Fear is a powerful motivator.

[Texanadian 10]

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. You're saying it's better to have vast areas of nothing between cities? That would be the USA. I drove across it and went hours upon hours of seeing nothing but empty countryside.

The trouble with letting the state plan rather than the city is that the larger the state, the less efficient it's going to be. If you live in some podunk town with a population of 1200 people, the state isn't going to do much for you. They simply don't care. They're too busy doing other stuff. Texas alone is half the population of Canada. And I wouldn't want to have to drive across the state to talk to a government rep about some issue that could be settled at city hall.

Because that is not in the scope of the private sector nor is it in their interest. Hence, why we have a government. There is a place for government and there is a place for the private sector. When it comes to our country and community, the private sector should have no say period. They should just bid on any projects we request.

This is the problem with you big government fans. You think there is no such thing as charity. If a company wants to buy 100 acres of land and make a nature sanctuary, why not let them? I grew up swimming at a huge man made lake. The shaded treed walking trail surrounding it was 5.7 kms long. The land was donated by a citizen under the agreement that it never be subdivided or turned into residential or business.

How about big endevors like sports arenas and stadiums? Should those be built by government? I don't see any trouble with a private company buying land, building an olympic sized swimming pool or an ice rink and then running it as a business. Governments in the last decade or two have slowly gotten rid of wading pools and replaced them with sprinklers. And life guards are no longer provided in government outdoor swimming areas. But they are in privately owned swimming areas.

The constitution has been changed many times. How do you think they got income tax put in there? Or any of the bill of rights for that matter.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Texanadian

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Can't keep extending unemployment benefits indefinitely if you want people to get off their butts and find a job.

Fear is a powerful motivator.

Motivator to what? How do you jam 14 million into 3 million jobs? Do we reintroduce gladiator battles? Have them fight to the death for a job? Is that the motivation you seek?

[Texanadian 10]

Look at Canada and health care. It's not a national system. It's run by the provinces. Thank goodness for that. Because if it was federally run, about 90% of the money would be spent in Ontario and Quebec. That's where the most votes come from. Who would care about us west coast people out in Vancouver or the people way up in the northern areas of the province.

The Texas Medical Center is the largest medical center in the world. Privately run. But they're all non profit hospitals. The whole thing was started by donated land and money by private individuals. It flourishes.

[mawilson 2,133]

Being able to earn a living is not a game - nor is getting what one pays for without having to spend the rest of ones life researching in order to eliminate unscrupulous business. Bad business is not eliminated in a free market, that's a silly fallacy.

Don't be silly. Can an American business hire a worker for $1/month? No, because no-one would work for $1/month.

It's a supply/demand game, and if a business pays someone $5/hour, that someone is willing to work for $5/hour.

The market can decide what the appropriate minimum wage should be in today's economic circumstances

much better than the government.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Don't be silly. Can an American business hire a worker for $1/month? No, because no-one would work for $1/month.

It's a supply/demand game, and if a business pays someone $5/hour, that someone is willing to work for $5/hour.

The market can decide what the appropriate minimum wage should be in today's economic circumstances

much better than the government.

If I was unemployed, without benefits I'd work for 2 dollars an hour and work an 80 hour week if possible. I'm sure others would too with their backs against the wall, I bet that's great for the free market! In fact, i'd migrate around the country if I really had to.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Sousuke

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Dallas – Fort Worth Metro area is 1,407 sq mi

Melbourne metro area is 3,400 sq mi

Next closet city to Melbourne is 9.5 hours drive away.

Australian cities are living proof of what you get when you let your government regulate and consider investments that are best for the state / city. Furthermore, what you get when the planning process considers the long-term impact to the community. Companies are not permitted to build and run. Then when you throw in a healthy dose of huge investments into the city by my fellow conservatives there, what do you end up with is the third most livable city in the world.

Edit: It's also why so many from abroad move there daily. How many professional foreigners (ex Mexico) move to Dallas or Houston?

Please get your facts straight.

Try more like 9,286 sq mi for the "metro" area

The 1407 is "urban" areas.

[Peikko 1,575]

Don't be silly. Can an American business hire a worker for $1/month? No, because no-one would work for $1/month.

It's a supply/demand game, and if a business pays someone $5/hour, that someone is willing to work for $5/hour.

The market can decide what the appropriate minimum wage should be in today's economic circumstances

much better than the government.

The market can decide? What does that even mean? In real terms, an individual has very limited power to determine what he is 'worth' in the market. There are very few jobs that require the skills of one individual, if there are any at all, for the most part business simply needs a 'body' to fulfill a task and it really doesn't care who that 'body' is. That is the inherent inequality that most of those who trust in the fairness of the free market fail to acknowledge. It's all fine and dandy to say that people will not work for less than x amount, but the reality is, that's not true. People frequently are forced to undervalue and undersell their skills in order to get a job at all.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

The market can decide? What does that even mean? In real terms, an individual has very limited power to determine what he is 'worth' in the market. There are very few jobs that require the skills of one individual, if there are any at all, for the most part business simply needs a 'body' to fulfill a task and it really doesn't care who that 'body' is. That is the inherent inequality that most of those who trust in the fairness of the free market fail to acknowledge. It's all fine and dandy to say that people will not work for less than x amount, but the reality is, that's not true. People frequently are forced to undervalue and undersell their skills in order to get a job at all.

The only reason and need for minimum wage comes from the fact that the government has had its way in devaluing currency and causes inflation.

In all reality if a dollar was still actually a dollar the way it was 100 year ago, we'd be perfectly fine..... When you change the system and how it works though and you privatize money, you end up with what we have today.... The current system we have is quite unconstitutional for that very reason.

Essentially, blame the banks.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Paul and Vanessa

[mawilson 2,133]

People frequently are forced to undervalue and undersell their skills in order to get a job at all.

True, but no-one's "forcing" them to take the job - they deserve what they get.

It's not the government's job to help them market their skills.

There are very few jobs that require the skills of one individual, if there are any at all, for the most part business simply needs a 'body' to fulfill a task and it really doesn't care who that 'body' is.

I'd say that there are very few jobs that *don't* require any skills. Even flipping burgers requires skill.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

True, but no-one's "forcing" them to take the job - they deserve what they get.

Frequently, circumstances force people to take jobs that they otherwise wouldn't.

I'd say that there are very few jobs that *don't* require any skills. Even flipping burgers requires skill.

If being able-bodied and mobile is a "skill", that's true.

[Peikko 1,575]

True, but no-one's "forcing" them to take the job - they deserve what they get.

It's not the government's job to help them market their skills.

I'd say that there are very few jobs that *don't* require any skills. Even flipping burgers requires skill.

I didn't say that jobs don't require skills, I said there are few, if any jobs that require the skills that only one individual can perform. My point being, if you dont turn up to work tomorrow and never turn up again, your employer isn't going to tear his hair out and bemoan the fact that you are irreplaceable and that the company will suffer and go bankrupt. Your loss might be no inconvenience at all (they can go out and replace you immediately) or a minor inconvenience (replacing you will take a few days/weeks, if you are truly special months). That's fine, but it doesn't give the individual much in the way of a bargaining chip when it comes to determining value, in other words the free market is heavily weighted in favour of institutions (business) and against individuals so if there were no government mandated regulations, there would be very little work the paid more than a minimal reimbursement.

What do you suppose changed between the beginning of the industrial revolution and today? What's better and what is worse?

[Peikko 1,575]

Circumstances often force people to take jobs were they are undervalued and I don't expect the goverment to help people 'market their skills' just provide for the reality of unions that can negotiate on behalf of the individual or legislate minimum terms that afford everyone with the necessary minimum standard of living.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The market can decide? What does that even mean? In real terms, an individual has very limited power to determine what he is 'worth' in the market. There are very few jobs that require the skills of one individual, if there are any at all, for the most part business simply needs a 'body' to fulfill a task and it really doesn't care who that 'body' is. That is the inherent inequality that most of those who trust in the fairness of the free market fail to acknowledge. It's all fine and dandy to say that people will not work for less than x amount, but the reality is, that's not true. People frequently are forced to undervalue and undersell their skills in order to get a job at all.

This is very true. That is what I was getting to when I mentioned I'd work for two dollars if I had to. Humanity will fight to survive under any conditions. If the leverage is there you could get people to work for porridge and a cell.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hence most (if not all) libertarian free market arguments relating to the minimum wage represent greater tyranny than what they are objecting to - especially once you factor in that attitude towards slavery.

This is very true. That is what I was getting to when I mentioned I'd work for two dollars if I had to. Humanity will fight to survive under any conditions. If the leverage is there you could get people to work for porridge and a cell.

Kinda makes you wonder what would happen if we did away with the minimum wage and the ability of employees to unionize. Nothing good for the employee, that's for sure.