"45 million Uninsured in America"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm surprised all you patriots continue to live here since the US government is as fvcked up as you would have us believe.

Why is it becca I get the impression your like a lil spoiled kid at xmas that didnt get what they wanted?

I don't know at all why you get that impression.

Why do I get the idea that some people around here can't think their way out of a paper bag?

Dont worry you will be all better soon.

Ah the strait-jacket image again. Am I supposed to find that meaningful in some personal way, or is it simply another case of you snatching images out of the air and trying to make them fit?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What would you define as a real job vs. a non-real job?

Flipping Burgers vs Skilled trade

Why should McDonalds be offering health insurance?

I worked in grocery retail for many years before finally going back and finishing college. I was under the United Food and Commercial Workers Union (UFCW Local 99) and had excellent medical insurance through BC/BS.

Low-skilled jobs can and do provide many people with a way of life -( I think of one of the stockers I worked with - Hank, who had a nice house with a pool) if there is support for it...and customers still could afford groceries. So it's a matter of whether you are willing to support such people or be elitist and tell them that if they want a real job, they need to go and get some real skills. They are the backbone of America - the real Joe plumbers - working hard for the money and they deserve medical insurance just as much as an elitist such as yourself.

I have been called alot of things in my life but I got to say this is the first time I have been called a elitist. Im talking flipping burgers, dish washer and most retail jobs. Take Safeways, they offer benefits and all power to them there a big business so they can. Your local mini mart, no and why should they, no incentive. I know a person that works at Safeway and I can tell you this you can not pay a mortgage, car payment and have kids on Safeway payroll. It usually requires two people working. I dont consider construction a non skilled job. I have been thru two apprenticeships and I know why the companies offer me benefits. If the business can offer it then good for them but to expect a business to give there dishwasher benefits is silly. I have held jobs that I dont consider real jobs had I well I might still be working there.

Well you may not be an elitist, but you are promoting an elitist argument - suggesting that having access to healthcare should be tied to some arbitrary list of jobs that are deemed "worthy".

[_Simpson_ 250]

I guess the question is whether there are enough jobs in the country that "not everyone could do".

"Anyone" can do retail, customer or food service - but there is definitely an art to doing it well.

"Anyone" can collect trash or deliver mail.

Whether anyone can do a particular job, doesn't alter the fact that everyone needs healthcare.

It should be up to the business plain and simple. They shouldn't be forced to offer benefits.

Fine, then we should have a public option for basic care that individuals can supplement with private insurance.

but then your punishing the business for not offering benefits. Washing dishes is a stepping stone and thats all it should really be, it really hurts business when they are forced to pay such things to positions that are not worthy, nor should we be forced to pay everyone the same wage. Its the same sort of thinking.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I guess the question is whether there are enough jobs in the country that "not everyone could do".

"Anyone" can do retail, customer or food service - but there is definitely an art to doing it well.

"Anyone" can collect trash or deliver mail.

Whether anyone can do a particular job, doesn't alter the fact that everyone needs healthcare.

It should be up to the business plain and simple. They shouldn't be forced to offer benefits.

Fine, then we should have a public option for basic care that individuals can supplement with private insurance.

but then your punishing the business for not offering benefits. Washing dishes is a stepping stone and thats all it should really be, it really hurts business when they are forced to pay such things to positions that are not worthy, nor should we be forced to pay everyone the same wage. Its the same sort of thinking.

The point being that people need can need healthcare at any point in their lives (not just when they have the right job) and that they shouldn't be bankrupted and/or denied care simply because they have a menial job to make ends meet.

A public option that individuals can supplement either by buying additional insurance themselves (or as a benefit from their job) - is the most equitable solution, surely.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Well you may not be an elitist, but you are promoting an elitist argument - suggesting that having access to healthcare should be tied to some arbitrary list of jobs that are deemed "worthy".

So is it a elitist argument when I say that not everyone should be paid the same wage. I think its fair to say that not all positions are worthy of health benefits but in the end it should be up to the business.

[_Simpson_ 250]

The point being that people need can need healthcare at any point in their lives (not just when they have the right job) and that they shouldn't be bankrupted and/or denied care simply because they have a menial job to make ends meet.

A public option that individuals can supplement either by buying additional insurance themselves (or as a benefit from their job) - is the most equitable solution, surely.

My point being is that its up to the person to get a job that offers benefits, no make all companies offer it. I guess our biggest disagreement is you see healthcare as right, I dont. Not sure well ever agree on that.

[HAL 9000 96]

I guess the question is whether there are enough jobs in the country that "not everyone could do".

"Anyone" can do retail, customer or food service - but there is definitely an art to doing it well.

"Anyone" can collect trash or deliver mail.

Whether anyone can do a particular job, doesn't alter the fact that everyone needs healthcare.

It should be up to the business plain and simple. They shouldn't be forced to offer benefits.

Fine, then we should have a public option for basic care that individuals can supplement with private insurance.

but then your punishing the business for not offering benefits. Washing dishes is a stepping stone and thats all it should really be, it really hurts business when they are forced to pay such things to positions that are not worthy, nor should we be forced to pay everyone the same wage. Its the same sort of thinking.

I understand your perspective as many people using not-so skilled positions as stepping stones to 'bigger and better things' but not everyone is on the same employment ladder and not all places can offer 'bigger and better things.' That given, when a country's health care system is mostly privately managed, with sponsorship coming through employers, then it is logical that all employers should offer up health care to its employees. There are insufficient public/private options thus far.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well you may not be an elitist, but you are promoting an elitist argument - suggesting that having access to healthcare should be tied to some arbitrary list of jobs that are deemed "worthy".

So is it a elitist argument when I say that not everyone should be paid the same wage. I think its fair to say that not all positions are worthy of health benefits but in the end it should be up to the business.

Because as I said you are suggesting that healthcare ought to be an exclusive benefit to a list of jobs deemed "worthy".

What I'm saying is take healthcare away from the equation entirely - give people a public program with the option of being able to supplement it with additional insurance.

The current system, as it stands is works to exclude people on the basis on income (i.e. whether they can afford decent insurance coverage), condemning the least able to a lifetime of ill-health, disfigurement or early death.

The point being that people need can need healthcare at any point in their lives (not just when they have the right job) and that they shouldn't be bankrupted and/or denied care simply because they have a menial job to make ends meet.

A public option that individuals can supplement either by buying additional insurance themselves (or as a benefit from their job) - is the most equitable solution, surely.

My point being is that its up to the person to get a job that offers benefits, no make all companies offer it. I guess our biggest disagreement is you see healthcare as right, I dont. Not sure well ever agree on that.

Yes....

But again people need healthcare throughout their lives, not just when they're in the position to have the right job.

[Dan J 277]

The point being that people need can need healthcare at any point in their lives (not just when they have the right job) and that they shouldn't be bankrupted and/or denied care simply because they have a menial job to make ends meet.

A public option that individuals can supplement either by buying additional insurance themselves (or as a benefit from their job) - is the most equitable solution, surely.

My point being is that its up to the person to get a job that offers benefits, no make all companies offer it. I guess our biggest disagreement is you see healthcare as right, I dont. Not sure well ever agree on that.

Everyone will use the healthcare system during their lives and hospitals are legally obligated to treat anyone who arrives in the ER. So now that we determined that everyone is going to use it, lets come up with a fairer way to pay for it. Instead of putting all the cost on those who still can afford health insurance.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I guess the question is whether there are enough jobs in the country that "not everyone could do".

"Anyone" can do retail, customer or food service - but there is definitely an art to doing it well.

"Anyone" can collect trash or deliver mail.

Whether anyone can do a particular job, doesn't alter the fact that everyone needs healthcare.

It should be up to the business plain and simple. They shouldn't be forced to offer benefits.

Fine, then we should have a public option for basic care that individuals can supplement with private insurance.

but then your punishing the business for not offering benefits. Washing dishes is a stepping stone and thats all it should really be, it really hurts business when they are forced to pay such things to positions that are not worthy, nor should we be forced to pay everyone the same wage. Its the same sort of thinking.

I understand your perspective as many people using not-so skilled positions as stepping stones to 'bigger and better things' but not everyone is on the same employment ladder and not all places can offer 'bigger and better things.' That given, when a country's health care system is mostly privately managed, with sponsorship coming through employers, then it is logical that all employers should offer up health care to its employees. There are insufficient public/private options thus far.

Well then what happens when you force a business to do such, well its puts a strangle hold on them. They have to lay off people or go out of business. I have worked in construction for many years. We often will hire labors to dig ditches and whatnot. We would be bidding higher for the jobs if we had to give benefits to all our laborers and so on and so forth. Often what gives the labors incentive is working there way up in the company and get a position that offers benefits. Now I realize that some people are stuck in dead end jobs for various reason. I just dont think that there is any one solutions thats going to make everybody happy, thats the real world unfourtantly. If buisness want to survive its not always logical to think they can offer everyone benefits with out be subsidized but then who bares the burden of that, not just the top 1% or 250,00 plus.

I have to get going, its been fun

[HAL 9000 96]

I guess the question is whether there are enough jobs in the country that "not everyone could do".

"Anyone" can do retail, customer or food service - but there is definitely an art to doing it well.

"Anyone" can collect trash or deliver mail.

Whether anyone can do a particular job, doesn't alter the fact that everyone needs healthcare.

It should be up to the business plain and simple. They shouldn't be forced to offer benefits.

Fine, then we should have a public option for basic care that individuals can supplement with private insurance.

but then your punishing the business for not offering benefits. Washing dishes is a stepping stone and thats all it should really be, it really hurts business when they are forced to pay such things to positions that are not worthy, nor should we be forced to pay everyone the same wage. Its the same sort of thinking.

I understand your perspective as many people using not-so skilled positions as stepping stones to 'bigger and better things' but not everyone is on the same employment ladder and not all places can offer 'bigger and better things.' That given, when a country's health care system is mostly privately managed, with sponsorship coming through employers, then it is logical that all employers should offer up health care to its employees. There are insufficient public/private options thus far.

Well then what happens when you force a business to do such, well its puts a strangle hold on them. They have to lay off people or go out of business. I have worked in construction for many years. We often will hire labors to dig ditches and whatnot. We would be bidding higher for the jobs if we had to give benefits to all our laborers and so on and so forth. Often what gives the labors incentive is working there way up in the company and get a position that offers benefits. Now I realize that some people are stuck in dead end jobs for various reason. I just dont think that there is any one solutions thats going to make everybody happy, thats the real world unfourtantly. If buisness want to survive its not always logical to think they can offer everyone benefits with out be subsidized but then who bares the burden of that, not just the top 1% or 250,00 plus.

I have to get going, its been fun

So a public option would be good to avoid forcing businesses to offer benefits they didn't want to or couldn't afford to offer. If they can't, they wouldn't have to.

[rebeccajo 14]

Mr. Simpson -

If you are working in construction, you have your health care benefits by the muscle of your union and not by the 'worthiness' of your job.

So stop trying to blow sunshine up my skirt about 'worth'. You just happen to have a union and a lot of people don't.

[Danno 1,228]

I guess all of these people who are against federal (socialist) healthcare also never visit libraries or drive on the Interstate system....

Damn Socialists! Everyone knows the government can't possibly run a large venture like healthcare or an Interstate highway system!

#######????????

Oh he's just doin the usual... "lets bring up silly stuff" rather than debate the issue being raised.

Speaking of "Lybrairies" seems ole Platypuss needs to make his annual visit as he is not up to speed on the Interstate Highway System and what it's purpose was (and that Eisenhower was in the GOP)

-----------------

Interstate Highway System

Main article: Interstate Highway System

One of Eisenhower's enduring achievements was championing and signing the bill that authorized the Interstate Highway System in 1956.[44] He justified the project through the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 as essential to American security during the Cold War. It was believed that large cities would be targets in a possible future war, and the highways were designed to evacuate them and allow the military to move in.

Now we're lurn'in

[rebeccajo 14]

Danno -

Are you aware of the fact that the US Constitution makes a provision for the government to maintain roadways?

[Danno 1,228]

Danno -

Are you aware of the fact that the US Constitution makes a provision for the government to maintain roadways?

IS that another topic you wish to discuss?

I'm open to it, why don't you post a little about it lets see where it goes.