The Obama Tax Hike

[HAL 9000 96]

Paying for the things we afford ourselves only opens our eyes as to what the things really cost. That will help us evaluate better whether we really want them. Being such an advocate of the illagal attack on Iraq, for example, you shouldn't have a problem paying for that. Instead, you're forcing the next generations to pick up the tab for W's wet-dream. That just ain't right anywhay you slice it. I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

I am happy to put my money where my mouth is. The war was needed and I am glad to pay for that. The cost now is less than the cost of not doing it later. It's all the other BS that the dems want I don't want to pay for. The attempt by the left to make things fair for everyone makes things unfair for all. I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together. Make them what they were originally intended, a safety net and not a way of life. The economy would be healthier and the people would be able to take care of themselves without the need for the government to "take care of us".

When and where have you advocated payng higher taxes to fund the war effort? Let's see it.

I am stating it now. Show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for it. Lets see it.

Right here. You're advocating McCain's irresponsible continuation of Bush's disastrous fiscal policy. How does that pay for the war effort in Iraq? Where does that raise the 2-3 trillion dollars that this war is costing us?

The point for Gary to ponder is not whether or not HE wants to pay for Bush's folly in Iraq but rather should the REST OF US be forced to pay for it. He may be willing, so perhaps he wouldn't object to a bigger chunk of his tax money going to just that to offset those of us that do not favor silly lies in the Middle East carried out first under one guise and now under another.

[GaryC 7]

Paying for the things we afford ourselves only opens our eyes as to what the things really cost. That will help us evaluate better whether we really want them. Being such an advocate of the illagal attack on Iraq, for example, you shouldn't have a problem paying for that. Instead, you're forcing the next generations to pick up the tab for W's wet-dream. That just ain't right anywhay you slice it. I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

I am happy to put my money where my mouth is. The war was needed and I am glad to pay for that. The cost now is less than the cost of not doing it later. It's all the other BS that the dems want I don't want to pay for. The attempt by the left to make things fair for everyone makes things unfair for all. I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together. Make them what they were originally intended, a safety net and not a way of life. The economy would be healthier and the people would be able to take care of themselves without the need for the government to "take care of us".

When and where have you advocated payng higher taxes to fund the war effort? Let's see it.

I am stating it now. Show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for it. Lets see it.

Right here. You're advocating McCain's irresponsible continuation of Bush's disastrous fiscal policy. How does that pay for the war effort in Iraq? Where does that raise the 2-3 trillion dollars that this war is costing us?

I repeat, show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for the war. I didn't. Bush's tax cuts were the best thing any president has done since Reagan. McCain wants to continue that. It will stimulate the economy and increase the federal coffers. Cut the useless social programs that just make us dependent on the government. Pay for it that way.

Bush has drained the coffers more than he has filled them. The war is funded by IOU's that the next generations will have to shoulder. You are being dishonest here.

Do dishonesty at all. But your just not understanding the problem if you think tax hikes will fill the coffers. It will drain the even faster. Raising taxes suppresses the economy. People earn less and fewer people work. This results in fewer people paying less taxes on less income. Tax hikes hurt everyone. Cutting taxes is the answer. It stimulates the economy, puts more people to work and more people pay taxes on more income.

[mawilson 2,133]

I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together

How about move to a third world country, and then you can have at it, cause they sure don't have any programs to help the needy. Let me ask you this, what about the children who have no one to care for them, cut them out also, throw their little ones out on the street to beg? Wow your compassion is overwhelming, we are supposed to be a civilized people, and people who have compassion for their fellow man. We had what you are talking about before the great depression, didn’t work out so well, so why do you think going back to a time when you looked out for only you would work this time. History tells a story, all you have to do is READ some of it. The depression, the dust bowel, the hunger and poverty, no medical, kinda sounds like now. We are the only civilized country that does not have health care, ####### is that about. We need to care for our people, not giving our soldiers antidepressants so they can continue to fight the war. Oh by the way, that is what the military is now doing to keep the troops going, since they are tiring out over there, they give them antidepressant to keep them fighting, oh yea sounds like World War 11 when Germany was handing out speed to keep it’s soldiers fighting. We might as well just throw it all in the trash and go back to life before the great depression, I really truly hope nothing ever bad happens to you, and you need some help, what if your wife was sick and you had no money or food, let her die, because you don’t have enough money for a doctor’s. Sounds a little like living in the jungle with no rules, it is everyone for their own self, screw your neighbor, they are losers if they starve, have I got that correct.

I only have two questions:

1) What's a dust bowel?

2) When did World War Eleven start and end?

[HAL 9000 96]

It is hard to advocate for either side to support tax cuts during a time of war or significant military operations. Taxes can be cut, in theory, for anyone right now and for years to come. The only problem is somewhere down the line the rising annual defecit and overall budget defecit of between $8-9 billion is going to continue grow. It would be great to have tax cuts, wouldn't it? But, at what expense? And what about future generations, like Mr. Big Dog was referring to?

It's hard to acknowledge paying for a "needed" war from cutting spending on domestic programs such as education, highway repairs, park services, medicare, unemployment benefits, etc. Sure, some domestic programs that are ineffective (possibly No Child Left Behind Act) should be cut or at least modified. But to cut those programs to fund a war that most Americans disapprove us doesn't make sense. And no, this isn't the liberal left talking. This is both sides of everyday Americans talking.

Domestic cuts such as for education make it harder for the not privileged to afford college education. I can only imagine an America where these kinds of programs were done away with and my kids will hopefully not be a part of it.

Good examples. To the point and real. Not based on conservative vs liberal idiocy.

NCLB is one interesting example of a negative drain. It sets about certain benchmarks for many areas, yet it does not fund the needed changes. Go figure.

As for the war, ditto.

[GaryC 7]

Paying for the things we afford ourselves only opens our eyes as to what the things really cost. That will help us evaluate better whether we really want them. Being such an advocate of the illagal attack on Iraq, for example, you shouldn't have a problem paying for that. Instead, you're forcing the next generations to pick up the tab for W's wet-dream. That just ain't right anywhay you slice it. I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

I am happy to put my money where my mouth is. The war was needed and I am glad to pay for that. The cost now is less than the cost of not doing it later. It's all the other BS that the dems want I don't want to pay for. The attempt by the left to make things fair for everyone makes things unfair for all. I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together. Make them what they were originally intended, a safety net and not a way of life. The economy would be healthier and the people would be able to take care of themselves without the need for the government to "take care of us".

When and where have you advocated payng higher taxes to fund the war effort? Let's see it.

I am stating it now. Show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for it. Lets see it.

Right here. You're advocating McCain's irresponsible continuation of Bush's disastrous fiscal policy. How does that pay for the war effort in Iraq? Where does that raise the 2-3 trillion dollars that this war is costing us?

The point for Gary to ponder is not whether or not HE wants to pay for Bush's folly in Iraq but rather should the REST OF US be forced to pay for it. He may be willing, so perhaps he wouldn't object to a bigger chunk of his tax money going to just that to offset those of us that do not favor silly lies in the Middle East carried out first under one guise and now under another.

Does that mean that you will pay more for things you want and I don't? You can pay more for the GW fixes, useless social programs and socialized medicine? I will trade you.

I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together

How about move to a third world country, and then you can have at it, cause they sure don't have any programs to help the needy. Let me ask you this, what about the children who have no one to care for them, cut them out also, throw their little ones out on the street to beg? Wow your compassion is overwhelming, we are supposed to be a civilized people, and people who have compassion for their fellow man. We had what you are talking about before the great depression, didn’t work out so well, so why do you think going back to a time when you looked out for only you would work this time. History tells a story, all you have to do is READ some of it. The depression, the dust bowel, the hunger and poverty, no medical, kinda sounds like now. We are the only civilized country that does not have health care, ####### is that about. We need to care for our people, not giving our soldiers antidepressants so they can continue to fight the war. Oh by the way, that is what the military is now doing to keep the troops going, since they are tiring out over there, they give them antidepressant to keep them fighting, oh yea sounds like World War 11 when Germany was handing out speed to keep it’s soldiers fighting. We might as well just throw it all in the trash and go back to life before the great depression, I really truly hope nothing ever bad happens to you, and you need some help, what if your wife was sick and you had no money or food, let her die, because you don’t have enough money for a doctor’s. Sounds a little like living in the jungle with no rules, it is everyone for their own self, screw your neighbor, they are losers if they starve, have I got that correct.

How about you move to a socialist country and you can have at it. I will even buy you the ticket.

[mawilson 2,133]

How about you move to a socialist country and you can have at it. I will even buy you the ticket.

I second that. Would be a lot cheaper than the Obama taxes.

[HAL 9000 96]

Paying for the things we afford ourselves only opens our eyes as to what the things really cost. That will help us evaluate better whether we really want them. Being such an advocate of the illagal attack on Iraq, for example, you shouldn't have a problem paying for that. Instead, you're forcing the next generations to pick up the tab for W's wet-dream. That just ain't right anywhay you slice it. I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

I am happy to put my money where my mouth is. The war was needed and I am glad to pay for that. The cost now is less than the cost of not doing it later. It's all the other BS that the dems want I don't want to pay for. The attempt by the left to make things fair for everyone makes things unfair for all. I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together. Make them what they were originally intended, a safety net and not a way of life. The economy would be healthier and the people would be able to take care of themselves without the need for the government to "take care of us".

When and where have you advocated payng higher taxes to fund the war effort? Let's see it.

I am stating it now. Show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for it. Lets see it.

Right here. You're advocating McCain's irresponsible continuation of Bush's disastrous fiscal policy. How does that pay for the war effort in Iraq? Where does that raise the 2-3 trillion dollars that this war is costing us?

The point for Gary to ponder is not whether or not HE wants to pay for Bush's folly in Iraq but rather should the REST OF US be forced to pay for it. He may be willing, so perhaps he wouldn't object to a bigger chunk of his tax money going to just that to offset those of us that do not favor silly lies in the Middle East carried out first under one guise and now under another.

Does that mean that you will pay more for things you want and I don't? You can pay more for the GW fixes, useless social programs and socialized medicine? I will trade you.

Absolutely more than happy to. Useless wars tend to cost a heck of a lot more than taking care of our nation's health.

Lets save this offer for posterity: you are willing to pay more than 10 of us here combined for one thing that leads to nothing while the rest of us will live healthier, more fulfilling lives because we chose to be more progressive and civilized about what we do with our money at home.

[SaadBell 0]

World war two, and the dust bowl, you have no knowledge of that? The 1930's Dust Bowl

"Dust Bowl" was a term born in the hard times from the people who lived in the drought-stricken region during the great depression. The term was first used in a dispatch from Robert Geiger, an AP correspondent in Guymon, and within a few short hours the term was used all over the nation. The "Dust Bowl Days", also known as the "Dirty Thirties", took its toll on Cimarron County. The decade was full of extremes: blizzards, tornadoes, floods, droughts, and dirt storms.

They came in floods to California because they had nothing? Ringing any bells, it is all history of the United States.

[GaryC 7]

Paying for the things we afford ourselves only opens our eyes as to what the things really cost. That will help us evaluate better whether we really want them. Being such an advocate of the illagal attack on Iraq, for example, you shouldn't have a problem paying for that. Instead, you're forcing the next generations to pick up the tab for W's wet-dream. That just ain't right anywhay you slice it. I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

I am happy to put my money where my mouth is. The war was needed and I am glad to pay for that. The cost now is less than the cost of not doing it later. It's all the other BS that the dems want I don't want to pay for. The attempt by the left to make things fair for everyone makes things unfair for all. I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together. Make them what they were originally intended, a safety net and not a way of life. The economy would be healthier and the people would be able to take care of themselves without the need for the government to "take care of us".

When and where have you advocated payng higher taxes to fund the war effort? Let's see it.

I am stating it now. Show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for it. Lets see it.

Right here. You're advocating McCain's irresponsible continuation of Bush's disastrous fiscal policy. How does that pay for the war effort in Iraq? Where does that raise the 2-3 trillion dollars that this war is costing us?

The point for Gary to ponder is not whether or not HE wants to pay for Bush's folly in Iraq but rather should the REST OF US be forced to pay for it. He may be willing, so perhaps he wouldn't object to a bigger chunk of his tax money going to just that to offset those of us that do not favor silly lies in the Middle East carried out first under one guise and now under another.

Does that mean that you will pay more for things you want and I don't? You can pay more for the GW fixes, useless social programs and socialized medicine? I will trade you.

Absolutely more than happy to. Useless wars tend to cost a heck of a lot more than taking care of our nation's health.

Lets save this offer for posterity: you are willing to pay more than 10 of us here combined for one thing that leads to nothing while the rest of us will live healthier, more fulfilling lives because we chose to be more progressive and civilized about what we do with our money at home.

Or more shall I say what YOU think is a better use for our money. Our health care system is fine but our security isn't. Without the fight against terrorism all the health care and social programs in the world will not help.

World war two, and the dust bowl, you have no knowledge of that? The 1930's Dust Bowl

"Dust Bowl" was a term born in the hard times from the people who lived in the drought-stricken region during the great depression. The term was first used in a dispatch from Robert Geiger, an AP correspondent in Guymon, and within a few short hours the term was used all over the nation. The "Dust Bowl Days", also known as the "Dirty Thirties", took its toll on Cimarron County. The decade was full of extremes: blizzards, tornadoes, floods, droughts, and dirt storms.

They came in floods to California because they had nothing? Ringing any bells, it is all history of the United States.

Went right over your head I see.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Our health care system is fine...

[HAL 9000 96]

Paying for the things we afford ourselves only opens our eyes as to what the things really cost. That will help us evaluate better whether we really want them. Being such an advocate of the illagal attack on Iraq, for example, you shouldn't have a problem paying for that. Instead, you're forcing the next generations to pick up the tab for W's wet-dream. That just ain't right anywhay you slice it. I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

I am happy to put my money where my mouth is. The war was needed and I am glad to pay for that. The cost now is less than the cost of not doing it later. It's all the other BS that the dems want I don't want to pay for. The attempt by the left to make things fair for everyone makes things unfair for all. I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together. Make them what they were originally intended, a safety net and not a way of life. The economy would be healthier and the people would be able to take care of themselves without the need for the government to "take care of us".

When and where have you advocated payng higher taxes to fund the war effort? Let's see it.

I am stating it now. Show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for it. Lets see it.

Right here. You're advocating McCain's irresponsible continuation of Bush's disastrous fiscal policy. How does that pay for the war effort in Iraq? Where does that raise the 2-3 trillion dollars that this war is costing us?

The point for Gary to ponder is not whether or not HE wants to pay for Bush's folly in Iraq but rather should the REST OF US be forced to pay for it. He may be willing, so perhaps he wouldn't object to a bigger chunk of his tax money going to just that to offset those of us that do not favor silly lies in the Middle East carried out first under one guise and now under another.

Does that mean that you will pay more for things you want and I don't? You can pay more for the GW fixes, useless social programs and socialized medicine? I will trade you.

Absolutely more than happy to. Useless wars tend to cost a heck of a lot more than taking care of our nation's health.

Lets save this offer for posterity: you are willing to pay more than 10 of us here combined for one thing that leads to nothing while the rest of us will live healthier, more fulfilling lives because we chose to be more progressive and civilized about what we do with our money at home.

Or more shall I say what YOU think is a better use for our money. Our health care system is fine but our security isn't. Without the fight against terrorism all the health care and social programs in the world will not help.

World war two, and the dust bowl, you have no knowledge of that? The 1930's Dust Bowl

"Dust Bowl" was a term born in the hard times from the people who lived in the drought-stricken region during the great depression. The term was first used in a dispatch from Robert Geiger, an AP correspondent in Guymon, and within a few short hours the term was used all over the nation. The "Dust Bowl Days", also known as the "Dirty Thirties", took its toll on Cimarron County. The decade was full of extremes: blizzards, tornadoes, floods, droughts, and dirt storms.

They came in floods to California because they had nothing? Ringing any bells, it is all history of the United States.

Went right over your head I see.

Yeah Gary... everything is just fine the way it is...

Here's a hint though... take out the special interests in the coverage of national security, and our intelligence services can also do 'just fine.'

[Jack and Barbara 0]

Paying for the things we afford ourselves only opens our eyes as to what the things really cost. That will help us evaluate better whether we really want them. Being such an advocate of the illagal attack on Iraq, for example, you shouldn't have a problem paying for that. Instead, you're forcing the next generations to pick up the tab for W's wet-dream. That just ain't right anywhay you slice it. I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

I am happy to put my money where my mouth is. The war was needed and I am glad to pay for that. The cost now is less than the cost of not doing it later. It's all the other BS that the dems want I don't want to pay for. The attempt by the left to make things fair for everyone makes things unfair for all. I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together. Make them what they were originally intended, a safety net and not a way of life. The economy would be healthier and the people would be able to take care of themselves without the need for the government to "take care of us".

When and where have you advocated payng higher taxes to fund the war effort? Let's see it.

I am stating it now. Show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for it. Lets see it.

Right here. You're advocating McCain's irresponsible continuation of Bush's disastrous fiscal policy. How does that pay for the war effort in Iraq? Where does that raise the 2-3 trillion dollars that this war is costing us?

I repeat, show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for the war. I didn't. Bush's tax cuts were the best thing any president has done since Reagan. McCain wants to continue that. It will stimulate the economy and increase the federal coffers. Cut the useless social programs that just make us dependent on the government. Pay for it that way.

Bush has drained the coffers more than he has filled them. The war is funded by IOU's that the next generations will have to shoulder. You are being dishonest here.

Do dishonesty at all. But your just not understanding the problem if you think tax hikes will fill the coffers. It will drain the even faster. Raising taxes suppresses the economy. People earn less and fewer people work. This results in fewer people paying less taxes on less income. Tax hikes hurt everyone. Cutting taxes is the answer. It stimulates the economy, puts more people to work and more people pay taxes on more income.

So after cutting taxes for the last 8 years, when do you figure the economy will be stimulated? Or has it been already and its one big conspiracy that no one has caught on to yet. That would be a great surprise!

BTW, I'll take the airline ticket if the offer goes to me as well. However, it would be a RT ticket, and likely a socilast country somewhere in the Caribbean.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Jack and Barbara

[mawilson 2,133]

Or more shall I say what YOU think is a better use for our money. Our health care system is fine but our security isn't. Without the fight against terrorism all the health care and social programs in the world will not help.

Of course, Gary. 9/11 wouldn't have happened if only we'd had Obama as President.

He would have talked some sense into those poor misunderstood and obviously already

emotionally distraught terrorist darlings who are but innocent victims of our evil foreign policy.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Our health care system is fine...

Indeed - its "only" fine when it works for you.

I imagine views change if you hit the rough end of the tracks, which happens to everyone sooner or later.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Paying for the things we afford ourselves only opens our eyes as to what the things really cost. That will help us evaluate better whether we really want them. Being such an advocate of the illagal attack on Iraq, for example, you shouldn't have a problem paying for that. Instead, you're forcing the next generations to pick up the tab for W's wet-dream. That just ain't right anywhay you slice it. I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

I am happy to put my money where my mouth is. The war was needed and I am glad to pay for that. The cost now is less than the cost of not doing it later. It's all the other BS that the dems want I don't want to pay for. The attempt by the left to make things fair for everyone makes things unfair for all. I would love to see about 2/3 of the social programs cut back or eliminated all together. Make them what they were originally intended, a safety net and not a way of life. The economy would be healthier and the people would be able to take care of themselves without the need for the government to "take care of us".

When and where have you advocated payng higher taxes to fund the war effort? Let's see it.

I am stating it now. Show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for it. Lets see it.

Right here. You're advocating McCain's irresponsible continuation of Bush's disastrous fiscal policy. How does that pay for the war effort in Iraq? Where does that raise the 2-3 trillion dollars that this war is costing us?

I repeat, show me where I ever said I didn't want to pay for the war. I didn't. Bush's tax cuts were the best thing any president has done since Reagan. McCain wants to continue that. It will stimulate the economy and increase the federal coffers. Cut the useless social programs that just make us dependent on the government. Pay for it that way.

Bush has drained the coffers more than he has filled them. The war is funded by IOU's that the next generations will have to shoulder. You are being dishonest here.

Do dishonesty at all. But your just not understanding the problem if you think tax hikes will fill the coffers. It will drain the even faster. Raising taxes suppresses the economy. People earn less and fewer people work. This results in fewer people paying less taxes on less income. Tax hikes hurt everyone. Cutting taxes is the answer. It stimulates the economy, puts more people to work and more people pay taxes on more income.

The late eighties (when Bush Sr. had to raise taxes to start paying for Reagan's irresponsible fiscal nightmare) and the 1990's prove you wrong, Gary. They just prove you wrong. After sensibly raising taxes and promoting economic growth, we ended the 20th century with balanced budgets and an America where the majority of the population got to share in the economic gains of the expansion period. You can deny it all you want but it worked better fiscally and economically than anything Reagan or W did. Much better. Voodoo economics is a scam. Always has been, always will be.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Mr. Big Dog