Let's kill this myth right here, right now...

[LaL 418]

Having looked at the above mentioned forum I see that the concensus is that the K1 is a work authorized visa and no EAD is necessary. Many people experienced what we did and did not need to provide and EAD or EAD "stamp" at the SSA to obtain SSN.

No, that is not the concensus at all. Receiving an SSN has nothing to do with becoming Employment authorized.

That said - I am moving this to that forum - as this is more of working prior to greencard discussion that POE discussion.

[Norman and Dijani 0]

Doesnt anyone else find it kind of stupid to get the temp EAD at the POE anway? My fiancee and I discussed this at lengeth and we figured out it just wouldnt be worth it. I am sure it depends on everyone's indiviual case, but in our case what is the poitn? She arrives and by the time we get an apartment, get her SSN, get married, apply for AOS,EAD and AP, she looks for and "finds" a job, what she will maybe be able to work for a month before she has to quit because there is no way her real EAD will be granted in that time frame. It just doesnt make sense to me at all....

Just to add a little fuel to the fire

[NavarreMan 10]

What am I missing? I will now read the I-9 and see what it says. I am getting more confused rather than reaching closure on this. Tanya is an approved K1. The SSA says that is all they require for temporary work authorization and issued her a card.

Could it just be a disconnect between the regulations of different agencies? Is it possible that they are really saying the same thing but have not worked out all the wording yet?

The links you have sent are excellent but I am reading that the K1 by itself is all that is necessary for work authorization.

[LaL 418]

What am I missing? I will now read the I-9 and see what it says. I am getting more confused rather than reaching closure on this. Tanya is an approved K1. The SSA says that is all they require for temporary work authorization and issued her a card.

Could it just be a disconnect between the regulations of different agencies? Is it possible that they are really saying the same thing but have not worked out all the wording yet?

The links you have sent are excellent but I am reading that the K1 by itself is all that is necessary for work authorization.

SSA does not authorize work. And you are 100% correct in that it is a disconnect between the agencies.

[Mrs D. 13]

What am I missing? I will now read the I-9 and see what it says. I am getting more confused rather than reaching closure on this. Tanya is an approved K1. The SSA says that is all they require for temporary work authorization and issued her a card.

Could it just be a disconnect between the regulations of different agencies? Is it possible that they are really saying the same thing but have not worked out all the wording yet?

The links you have sent are excellent but I am reading that the K1 by itself is all that is necessary for work authorization.

The conclusion I've made from my own experience and what I've read and heard is that CIS and Immigration employees (as well as SSA) don't have a clue themselves.

We came through Philadelphia and the Immigration guy told us (even before we asked for temp EAD stamp) that "no, definitely no, they stopped doing it here a while ago". He also told us that we could ask for this stamp at the local CIS office after we get married. So we did and the CIS officer told us "no, they should have given you the stamp at POE."

Another good one - SSA office told me I couldn't get an SSN before I get my proper EAD unless I am applying for benefits.

Seriously, I'm done trying to understand this system and can only laugh at it at this point, cause otherwise I'd go crazy

[RaTBoX 1]

Having looked at the above mentioned forum I see that the concensus is that the K1 is a work authorized visa and no EAD is necessary. Many people experienced what we did and did not need to provide and EAD or EAD "stamp" at the SSA to obtain SSN.

Well that consensus is very different to the Code of Federal Regulations Section 8 (Aliens and Nationality), Part 274a (Control of Employment of Aliens), Section 12 (Classes of aliens authorized to accept employment) (the administrative law that the USCIS must follow)

(a) Aliens authorized employment incident to status. Pursuant to the statutory or regulatory reference cited, the following classes of aliens are authorized to be employed in the United States without restrictions as to location or type of employment as a condition of their admission or subsequent change to one of the indicated classes. Any alien who is within a class of aliens described in paragraphs (a)(3), (a)(4), (a)(6)-(a)(8), (a)(10)-(a)(15), or (a)(20) of this section, and who seeks to be employed in the United States, must apply to U.S.Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) for a document evidencing such employment authorization. USCIS may, in its discretion, determine the validity period assigned to any document issued evidencing an alien's authorization to work in the United States. (Introductory text revised effective 10/17/07; 72 FR 53014 ) (Introductory text revised 7/30/04; 69 FR 45555 ) (Introductory text amended effective 3/4/02; 67 FR 4784 ) (Introductory text amended 9/7/01; 66 FR 46697 ) (Introductory text revised 8/14/01; 66 FR 42587 ) (Introductory text amended 6/1/01; 66 FR 29961)

(1) An alien who is a lawful permanent resident (with or without conditions pursuant to section 216 of the Act), as evidenced by Form I-551 issued by the Service. An expiration date on the Form I-551 reflects only that the card must be renewed, not that the bearer's work authorization has expired; (Final rule amending this paragraph on 9/20/93 at 58 FR 48775 did not become effective until 3/20/96; 60 FR 14353 )

(2) An alien admitted to the United States as a lawful temporary resident pursuant to section 245A or 210 of the Act, as evidenced by an employment authorization document issued by the Service;

(3) An alien admitted to the United States as a refugee pursuant to section 207 of the Act for the period of time in that status, as evidenced by an employment authorization document issued by the Service;

(4) An alien paroled into the United States as a refugee for the period of time in that status, as evidenced by an employment authorization document issued by the Service;

(5) An alien granted asylum under section 208 of the Act for the period of time in that status, as evidenced by an employment authorization document, issued by BCIS to the alien. An expiration date on the employment authorization document issued by BCIS reflects only that the document must be renewed, and not that the bearer's work authorization has expired. Evidence of employment authorization shall be granted in increments not exceeding 5 years for the period of time the alien remains in that status. (Revised 7/30/04; 69 FR 45555 )

(6) An alien admitted to the United States as a nonimmigrant fiancé or fiancee pursuant to section 101(a)(15)(K)(i) of the Act, or an alien admitted as a child of such alien, for the period of admission in that status, as evidenced by an employment authorization document issued by the Service; (Revised 8/14/01; 66 FR 42587 )

[NavarreMan 10]

That trumps anything I found!

[cellarlily 0]

"as evidenced by an employment authorization document issued by the Service"

And what exactly would that document be if you do not have the 90-day stamp or the EAD card?

My husband and I went round and round with this very issue with two immigration lawyers, two HR offices, this forum and the different documents you all have posted. It didn't matter that as a K1 he was work authorized because he didn't have documentation to back that up. That documentation is the 90-day stamp issued at POE and/or the EAD card you apply for with AOS.

If you want to test your luck, be my guest. NO employer has to hire you without the proper documentation, and they would be stupid to do so as they are breaking the law.

[RaTBoX 1]

"as evidenced by an employment authorization document issued by the Service"

And what exactly would that document be if you do not have the 90-day stamp or the EAD card?

What?

An employment authorization document issued by the service is an EAD card or a stamp. Nothing else. If you don't have one of these documents, you don't work. If you don't have the stamp, you use I-765 to apply for an EAD under category (a)(6).

The CFR is pretty clear I think.

Edited May 23, 2008 by RaTBoX

[NavarreMan 10]

Is this the infamous stamp everyone is talking about?

[cellarlily 0]

What?

An employment authorization document issued by the service is an EAD card or a stamp. Nothing else. If you don't have one of these documents, you don't work. If you don't have the stamp, you use I-765 to apply for an EAD under category (a)(6).

The CFR is pretty clear I think.

Precisely. Certain people in this thread seem to think that they can work without the stamp or the card. I think what you posted should be copied in every thread where people are trying to use the SS documentation as proof that they are okay to work. I wasn't copying what you posted to contradict you...I think that line is extremely clear.

[RaTBoX 1]

Is this the infamous stamp everyone is talking about?

That looks like an I-551 stamp, which is proof of LPR status.

it's not the EAD stamp that K1 holders can get an JFK. That EAD stamp is just a single line of red stamped text "Employment Authorized" and a date beside it.

[NavarreMan 10]

Well I just spent my lunch hour and then some at the local Social Security office. I will pass on to you what I found out. Take it or leave it as you see best:

God I love a good mystery!!!

First I want to say that RatBox did exactly what I always recommend and that is to go to the statutes (in this case US Code) that cover the issues at hand. I commend RatBox for this effort and encourage all to follow suit. There is a ton of great info out there if you can find it and decipher it.

With that being said I learned that the SSA and DHS are at direct odds over what constitutes work authorization. The SSA goes by their guidelines and the USCIS goes by US Code. Unfortunately the two agencies do not quite agree. In this situation I would go with the Federal Code (US Code) as it is from a higher authority and is a uniform code (it applies to everybody).

But there is a catch... its called the S.A.V.E program Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements and it is similar to the NCIC system used by law enforcement agencies in that it collects and makes available to many government agencies and businesses, pertinent information on those in the immigration system. It is this system that officials from ICE, USCIS, DHS, TSA and many others including employers rely upon for the status of a specific immigrant and their benefits status. A phone call to their office (which sounds remarkably like a call to USCIS) resulted in a description of what S.A.V.E. is and what they do and also resulted in no explanation as to why the SSA and USCIS cannot agree on work authorization or how Tanya was entered into their system as being work authorized (they double checked at SSA) without applying via the I-765. I have a guess but I will leave you to your own speculation on this issue.

Bottom line is that if you are in the S.A.V.E. system as being work authorized, you can get the SSN and the database that will prevent you from getting a job states that you are eligible for hire or authorized for work regardless of any other supporting documents. The stamp being used at JFK apparently is outdated and there might be a couple of old-timers there still using it but the stamp itself states that it is an interim I-551 stamp for those who have been processed for the I-551 "Green Card". Beats the heck out of me why they would use it for a K1, but if you are lucky enough to get the stamp more power to you. It takes the guess work out of the equation. Perhaps there is a disconnect between USCIS regarding them entering info into the S.A.V.E. system. Maybe one regulation tells them to enter the K1 into it but the rest of their regs say that the need to file the I-765. My next stop on this happy trail is a very long letter to Jeff Miller my Congressman. You just gotta love America!!!

SAVE Program

Employment Verification Pilot Programs

The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 required the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), and the Social Security Administration to conduct three employment verification pilot programs: E-Verify, the Citizen Attestation Pilot, and the Machine-Readable Document Pilot programs. Since the INS became part of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) on March 1, 2003, the pilot programs now fall under the jurisdiction of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service's (USCIS) Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program. These pilot programs are the only means available for employers to verify the information that their newly hired employees have provided on the Form I-9 attesting that they are authorized to work in the United States.

The SAVE program is no longer recruiting for the Machine-Readable Document or the Citizen Attestation Pilot programs as those pilots ended in May and June 2003, respectively.

[NavarreMan 10]

Is this the infamous stamp everyone is talking about?

That looks like an I-551 stamp, which is proof of LPR status.

it's not the EAD stamp that K1 holders can get an JFK. That EAD stamp is just a single line of red stamped text "Employment Authorized" and a date beside it.

Oh... well it is the only example I could find except for a handwritten work authorization with date. Beats me. I can find nothing that says a stamp is allowed except for:

Sec. 274a.2 Verification of employment eligibility. Sec. 274a.2 Verification of employment eligibility.

(a) General . This section establishes requirements and procedures for compliance by persons or entities when hiring, or when recruiting or referring for a fee, or when continuing to employ individuals in the United States.

(1) Recruiters and referrers for a fee . For purposes of complying with section 274A(B) of the Act and this section, all references to recruiters and referrers for a fee are limited to a person or entity who is either an agricultural association, agricultural employer, or farm labor contractor (as defined in section 3 of the Migrant and Seasonal Agricultural Worker Protection Act, Pub. L. 97-470 (29 U.S.C. 1802)).

(2) Verification form . Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification Form, is used in complying with the requirements of this 8 CFR 274a.1 -- 274a.11 . Form I-9 can be in paper or electronic format. In paper format, the Form I-9 may be obtained in limited quantities at USCIS district offices, or ordered from the Superintendent of Documents, Washington, DC 20402. In electronic format, a fillable electronic Form I-9 may be downloaded from http://www.uscis.gov . Alternatively, Form I-9 can be electronically generated or retained, provided that the resulting form is legible; there is no change to the name, content, or sequence of the data elements and instructions; no additional data elements or language are inserted; and the standards specified under 8 CFR 274a.2(e) , , (g) , (h) , and (i) , as applicable, are met. When copying or printing the paper Form I-9, the text of the two-sided form may be reproduced by making either double-sided or single-sided copies.

(3) Attestation Under Penalty and Perjury . In conjunction with completing the Form I-9, an employer or recruiter or referrer for a fee must examine documents that evidence the identity and employment eligibility of the individual. The employer or recruiter or referrer for a fee and the individual must each complete an attestation on the Form I-9 under penalty of perjury.

(Paragraph (a) revised 6/15/06; 71 FR 34510 ) (Amended 10/7/96; 61 FR 52235 )

(B) Employment verification requirements--

(1) Examination of documents and completion of Form I-9.

(i) A person or entity that hires or recruits or refers for a fee an individual for employment must ensure that the individual properly:

(A) Completes section 1--”Employee Information and Verification”--on the Form I-9 at the time of hire and signs the attestation with a handwritten or electronic signature in accordance with paragraph (h) of this section; or if an individual is unable to complete the Form I-9 or needs it translated, someone may assist him or her. The preparer or translator must read the Form I-9 to the individual, assist him or her in completing Section 1--”Employee Information and Verification,” and have the individual sign or mark the Form I-9 by a handwritten signature, or an electronic signature in accordance with paragraph (h) of this section, in the appropriate place; and (Revised 6/15/06; 71 FR 34510 )

(B) Present to the employer or the recruiter or referrer for a fee documentation as set forth in paragraph (B)(1)(v) of this section establishing his or her identity and employment eligibility within the time limits set forth in paragraphs (B)(1)(ii) through (B)(1)(v) of this section.

(ii) Except as provided in paragraph (B)(1)(viii) of this section, an employer, his or her agent, or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest thereof, must within three business days of the hire:

(A) Physically examine the documentation presented by the individual establishing identity and employment eligibility as set forth in paragraph (B)(1)(v) of this section and ensure that the documents presented appear to be genuine and to relate to the individual; and

(B) Complete section 2--”Employer Review and Verification”--on the Form I-9 within three days of the hire and sign the attestation with a handwritten signature or electronic signature in accordance with paragraph (i) of this section. (Revised 6/15/06; 71 FR 34510 )

(iii) An employer who hires an individual for employment for a duration of less than three business days must comply with paragraphs (B)(1)(ii)(A) and (B)(1)(ii)(B) of this section at the time of the hire. An employer may not accept a receipt, as described in paragraph (B)(1)(vi) of this section, in lieu of the required document if the employment is for less than three business days. (Revised 9/30/97; 62 FR 51001 )

(iv) A recruiter or referrer for a fee for employment must comply with paragraphs (B)(1)(ii)(A) and (B)(1)(ii)(B) of this section within three business days of the date the referred individual is hired by the employer. Recruiters and referrers may designate agents to complete the employment verification procedures on their behalf including but not limited to notaries, national associations, or employers. If a recruiter or referrer designates an employer to complete the employment verification procedures, the employer need only provide the recruiter or referrer with a photocopy or printed electronic image of the Form I-9, electronic Form I-9, or a Form I-9 on microfilm or microfiche. (Amended 6/15/06; 71 FR 34510 )

(v) The individual may present either an original document which establishes both employment authorization and identity, or an original document which establishes employment authorization and a separate original document which establishes identity. The identification number and expiration date (if any) of all documents must be noted in the appropriate space provided on the Form I-9. An employer or a recruiter or referrer for a fee may not specify which document or documents an individual is to present.

(A) The following documents, so long as they appear to relate to the individual presenting the document, are acceptable to evidence both identity and employment eligibility:

( 1 ) United States passport (unexpired or expired);

( 2 ) Alien Registration Receipt Card or Permanent Resident Card, Form I-551;

( 3 ) An unexpired foreign passport that contains a temporary I-551 stamp;

( 4 ) An unexpired Employment Authorization Document issued by the Immigration And Naturalization Service which contains a photograph, Form I-766; Form I-688, Form I-688A, or Form I-688B;

( 5 ) In the case of a nonimmigrant alien authorized to work for a specific employer incident to status, an unexpired foreign passport with an Arrival-Departure Record, Form I-94, bearing the same name as the passport and containing an endorsement of the alien's nonimmigrant status, so long as the period of endorsement has not yet expired and the proposed employment is not in conflict with any restrictions or limitations identified on the Form I-94. (Paragraph (B)(1)(v)(A) Amended 9/20/93 at 58 FR 48775 did not become effective until 3/20/96; 60 FR 14353 ) (Revised effective 10/4/96; 61 FR 46534 ) (Revised 9/30/97; 62 FR 51001 )

Edited May 23, 2008 by NavarreMan

[RaTBoX 1]

( 5 ) In the case of a nonimmigrant alien authorized to work for a specific employer incident to status, an unexpired foreign passport with an Arrival-Departure Record, Form I-94, bearing the same name as the passport and containing an endorsement of the alien's nonimmigrant status, so long as the period of endorsement has not yet expired and the proposed employment is not in conflict with any restrictions or limitations identified on the Form I-94. (Paragraph (B)(1)(v)(A) Amended 9/20/93 at 58 FR 48775 did not become effective until 3/20/96; 60 FR 14353 ) (Revised effective 10/4/96; 61 FR 46534 ) (Revised 9/30/97; 62 FR 51001 )

The stamp a K1 holder can get is a variation of this. It's a stamp on the holder's I-94 in their passport, not a stamp on their passport.