Pat Buchanan: Black Americans should be grateful we brought them over on slave ships!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why when it is much more fun having seven people I barely know, let alone ever met, telling me what I believe and what my views are.

Well you made the statements that PH summarised (though we could provide explicit quotes if you really feel that you've been misinterpreted). Either the comments that you've made reflect your beliefs or they don't.

Ph couldn't summarize what day it is so no they are not what I meant or believe.

Indeed. You didn't say any of the things she listed, did you. Give me a break.

[Krikit 1,164]

Knowing someone who knows someone who you got along with during a visit does not get you a Get Out of Jail for free card.

Even though you have always been full of #### on VJ, can you show me where I was racist.

So now I am always full of # keys. (In addition to -- among other things --sniffing drugs, of course.)

I cannot possibly prove to you that which you do not believe. Perhaps come back to this thread at a later date. Maybe time and experience will provide you with a new perspective.

You know, Troll. I was going to vote for allowing the thread to remain open, but we keep going around in circles. I vote for it to be closed. Unless, of course, BY chooses to remain civil in order to properly explain his point of view.

[HAL 9000 96]

Haven't reached page 60 yet... still room for a clear, logical explanation of his point of view.

[Peikko 1,575]

Wow, BY is still pretending that he doesn't think African Americans are inferior to other people? Get real mate.

As for the statistics about the African Americans who are incarcerated, is there anyone out there who seriously believes this is a simple reflection of the criminal tendancies of a group? This does appear to be the interpretation but that rather ignores the facts. Did you ever look at the figures for incarceration, ask yourself who gets incarcerated and why? Essentially, the large numbers of inmates in the US is a reflection of the US policy on how to deal with the drug problem. Does that mean that African Americans are more likely to be drug users? Actually, no, the fact is drug use among African Americans is no greater than amongst other parts of the population. So, how come so many more African Americans are incarcerated becaues of drug use? This actually gets to the root of the problem. African Americans are more likely to be stopped and searched, they are more likely to be picked up and arrested because of the continued discrimination that they undergo which BY and all those who look at the figures and think 2 + 2 = this is how African Americans are. If you ignore the historical context, the demographics and the police bias it's easy to think that quarter of the male population of African Americans incarcerated is a true reflection of how these people are.

Just for the record, what difference does it make how black the skin is of the friends you have? I don't think I have ever looked at my friends and compared skin tones...but I guess it takes all sorts.

[HAL 9000 96]

Wow, BY is still pretending that he doesn't think African Americans are inferior to other people? Get real mate.

As for the statistics about the African Americans who are incarcerated, is there anyone out there who seriously believes this is a simple reflection of the criminal tendancies of a group? This does appear to be the interpretation but that rather ignores the facts. Did you ever look at the figures for incarceration, ask yourself who gets incarcerated and why? Essentially, the large numbers of inmates in the US is a reflection of the US policy on how to deal with the drug problem. Does that mean that African Americans are more likely to be drug users? Actually, no, the fact is drug use among African Americans is no greater than amongst other parts of the population. So, how come so many more African Americans are incarcerated becaues of drug use? This actually gets to the root of the problem. African Americans are more likely to be stopped and searched, they are more likely to be picked up and arrested because of the continued discrimination that they undergo which BY and all those who look at the figures and think 2 + 2 = this is how African Americans are. If you ignore the historical context, the demographics and the police bias it's easy to think that quarter of the male population of African Americans incarcerated is a true reflection of how these people are.

Just for the record, what difference does it make how black the skin is of the friends you have? I don't think I have ever looked at my friends and compared skin tones...but I guess it takes all sorts.

I think there is a lot of historical truth to the paragraph above.

Drug use rates are actually higher for white, wealthy consumers if you adjust for the rate of incarceration due to a higher police presence in da ghetto.

[amiquechu 0]

Man, this has become a popular thread!!!

[Krikit 1,164]

Wow, BY is still pretending that he doesn't think African Americans are inferior to other people? Get real mate.

As for the statistics about the African Americans who are incarcerated, is there anyone out there who seriously believes this is a simple reflection of the criminal tendancies of a group? This does appear to be the interpretation but that rather ignores the facts. Did you ever look at the figures for incarceration, ask yourself who gets incarcerated and why? Essentially, the large numbers of inmates in the US is a reflection of the US policy on how to deal with the drug problem. Does that mean that African Americans are more likely to be drug users? Actually, no, the fact is drug use among African Americans is no greater than amongst other parts of the population. So, how come so many more African Americans are incarcerated becaues of drug use? This actually gets to the root of the problem. African Americans are more likely to be stopped and searched, they are more likely to be picked up and arrested because of the continued discrimination that they undergo which BY and all those who look at the figures and think 2 + 2 = this is how African Americans are. If you ignore the historical context, the demographics and the police bias it's easy to think that quarter of the male population of African Americans incarcerated is a true reflection of how these people are.

Just for the record, what difference does it make how black the skin is of the friends you have? I don't think I have ever looked at my friends and compared skin tones...but I guess it takes all sorts.

I think there is a lot of historical truth to the paragraph above.

Drug use rates are actually higher for white, wealthy consumers if you adjust for the rate of incarceration due to a higher police presence in da ghetto.

And it is a well-documented fact that, for the same type crimes, blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate than whites.

[HAL 9000 96]

Wow, BY is still pretending that he doesn't think African Americans are inferior to other people? Get real mate.

As for the statistics about the African Americans who are incarcerated, is there anyone out there who seriously believes this is a simple reflection of the criminal tendancies of a group? This does appear to be the interpretation but that rather ignores the facts. Did you ever look at the figures for incarceration, ask yourself who gets incarcerated and why? Essentially, the large numbers of inmates in the US is a reflection of the US policy on how to deal with the drug problem. Does that mean that African Americans are more likely to be drug users? Actually, no, the fact is drug use among African Americans is no greater than amongst other parts of the population. So, how come so many more African Americans are incarcerated becaues of drug use? This actually gets to the root of the problem. African Americans are more likely to be stopped and searched, they are more likely to be picked up and arrested because of the continued discrimination that they undergo which BY and all those who look at the figures and think 2 + 2 = this is how African Americans are. If you ignore the historical context, the demographics and the police bias it's easy to think that quarter of the male population of African Americans incarcerated is a true reflection of how these people are.

Just for the record, what difference does it make how black the skin is of the friends you have? I don't think I have ever looked at my friends and compared skin tones...but I guess it takes all sorts.

I think there is a lot of historical truth to the paragraph above.

Drug use rates are actually higher for white, wealthy consumers if you adjust for the rate of incarceration due to a higher police presence in da ghetto.

And it is a well-documented fact that, for the same type crimes, blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate than whites.

So lets factualize rebuttals to this common fact, among potential reasons that

Blacks are incarcerated more than whites because...

1. Causation of their own fault

2. Causation not of their fault

3. Maintenance of crimes of their own fault

4. Maintenance of law enforcement dynamics to respond to crimes of their own fault

5. Maintenance of law enforcement dyamics to prevent crimes based on neighborhood stats

6. Maintenance of judicial dynamics in access to adequate legal counsel

7. Maintenance of penal dynamics that are more punitive based on race

8. Maintenance of social dynamics that prevent social progress

9. Maintenance of legal dynamics that do not facilitate legal nor social progress

[Peikko 1,575]

The original premise of this thread was, African Americans should be grateful that they are treated like ####### in a democracy. Their lives would be far worse had they not been brought over and abused as slaves because now they would be living a worse nightmare of starvation and/or under a dictator.

If you just look at it as a direct comparison it's obvious, an African American in poverty in the US is obviously better off than any African living in poverty in Africa. However, here's the thing, they are not just lucky first generation immigrants who have been granted special passes to the US which they should be grateful to the beneficent US for for, they are US citizens who have the right to expect that they have the same opportunities as any other US citizen and the fact is, as of right now this is still not happening. We know it's not happening because of all the reasons that have been put forward in this thread to date, there is latent discrimination, there is real hardship and poverty that is not simply a reflection of the feckless, criminal nature of the African American.

People like BY who look at these simplistic and irrelevant assertions and think, "you know what, that's true, they should be grateful instead of whining and moaning and wanting things from me" ensure that the playing field will not get leveled any time soon.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Purple_Hibiscus

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

Man, this has become a popular thread!!!

it's like the energizer bunny.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Bump

Can't we at least make 60?

[Heracles 417]

Bump

Can't we at least make 60?

With the amount of rubbish you guys have thrown out I am surprised the server has not crashed..

[Peikko 1,575]

Aw, that's sweet. Thanks BY.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Bump

Can't we at least make 60?

With the amount of rubbish you guys have thrown out I am surprised the server has not crashed..

Perhaps. But I'm still scratching my head as to how I was "dismissing" the evidence you presented. Its a bit of a stretch IMO.

Mr Creosote, would you like a waffer-thin mint?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Go 60! Go 60! Go 60! Go 60!