Tom Tancredo Hired Illegal Laborers to Renovate His McMansion

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I have never claimed that the "mere presence" of illegals in this country affects Americans negatively. I have always addressed the issue from the vantage points of illegal activity, what you have to do to enter, stay and work, and economically, that they take jobs from legals. Do not put words in my mouth.

You try to follow me. I asked you how supporting illegals benefits minorities and low-income Americans. Can you tell me?

Given your posts on this subject, here and in other threads - that really does take the cake.

On this thread, I have laid bare the ASSumptions, red herrings, and major trippin' that the lefties MUST do to appear to have a point. I have gotten more "I dunno's", "I don't care's", and "I give up's" from my questioning that really shows that illegal lovers have not one leg to stand on. And all you have to contribute, Numero seis, is a slam as utterly out of context and meaningless as it takes the cake that I ask that someone not put words in my mouth? Are you blind or merely insipid? For sure, you are in denial about the presentation your kindred spirits showed here, and your bias is showing.

I don't think its unreasonable to question whether what he paid for the work he was the equivalent market rate for that kind of job. Of course I have no idea whether he did or not - but is it really an invalid question?

Are you directing this to me?

I think it's relevant...but not solely relevant. I think there are also other factors to consider...whether the contractor was personally known to him (did Tancredo think it was a personal favor? Was he getting a break by 'hey I'll do it for cheaper so that you refer me to your friends') and what financial state Tancredo thought the guy was in...like was he hurting for business and just was undercutting everyone else to get the job?

I am just as interested in finding out the truth as most. I'm not looking to protect anyone from scorn, if it's deserved. I hold steadfast to my anti-illegal beliefs, and would be quite disappointed in T if it's proven he had a reasonable understanding of the situation as it really was. However, whether or not he is outed as a hypocrite does not change my stance in the slightest. I understand it'll be chum for the libs for a while, but at the end of the day....he's one man, and while his vocal beliefs align with mine on this subject, he does not speak for me and many others if he's been caught diddlin on the side. If anything, it illustrates how illegals have the ability to not only destroy the free mkt, but they have dire economy consequences by being able to be super competitive in price ONLY BY removing the tax cost to any job. So the only people who get screwed are Uncle Sam, the manual US, or GC laborer, oh and the US population too.

What she said. Tom is only one man, and with the hypocrisy demonstrated by the illegal lovers on this thread, it cannot be made more clear who has the best interest of our future in mind when they formulate a thought and it ain't the illegal camp.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Fandango 1,439]

To be honest - beyond that one question I don't think that there is all that much meat on this story. The writer pulls no punches as to how he feels about Tancredo - describing him as an Anti-immigration zealot, and a draft dodger who's obsessed with war movies to the point that he renovated his house for apparently masturbatory purposes (kind of like Goldfinger obsessing over the quality of his "map-room"). Its a hit piece, to be sure - but this topic tends to be loaded with them. In the general scheme of things of course - I don't think it adds that much to the general immigration debate.

However - I think we should all be honest with ourselves here. I have read elsewhere on VJ that supporting environmentalism and global warming equates to "Support for Al Gore", just as it seems to be assumed that just because someone criticises a Republican or Democrat candidate that they must therefore support the other side.

There's no middle ground these days, and that's rather sad.

I think there are many things that people believe in that are very black and white...myself included. I also think it's a shame how most discussions wind up being circular, and therefore unproductive. But that's why there's that old saying about never discussing politics or religion.

Gotta get ready for work!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I have never claimed that the "mere presence" of illegals in this country affects Americans negatively. I have always addressed the issue from the vantage points of illegal activity, what you have to do to enter, stay and work, and economically, that they take jobs from legals. Do not put words in my mouth.

You try to follow me. I asked you how supporting illegals benefits minorities and low-income Americans. Can you tell me?

Given your posts on this subject, here and in other threads - that really does take the cake.

On this thread, I have laid bare the ASSumptions, red herrings, and major trippin' that the lefties MUST do to appear to have a point. I have gotten more "I dunno's", "I don't care's", and "I give up's" from my questioning that really shows that illegal lovers have not one leg to stand on. And all you have to contribute, Numero seis, is a slam as utterly out of context and meaningless as it take the cake that I ask that someone not put words in my mouth? Are you blind or merely insipid? For sure, you are in denial about the presentation your kindred spirits showed here, and your bias is showing.

If my bias is showing its because I don't like rude people and rude behaviour. You may think its out of context - but I see you making bald assumptions about people all over the shop, so complaining about having words put in your mouth seems rather hypocritical. If you don't like it - then perhaps doing it to others is a bit of no-no?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I have never claimed that the "mere presence" of illegals in this country affects Americans negatively. I have always addressed the issue from the vantage points of illegal activity, what you have to do to enter, stay and work, and economically, that they take jobs from legals. Do not put words in my mouth.

You try to follow me. I asked you how supporting illegals benefits minorities and low-income Americans. Can you tell me?

Given your posts on this subject, here and in other threads - that really does take the cake.

On this thread, I have laid bare the ASSumptions, red herrings, and major trippin' that the lefties MUST do to appear to have a point. I have gotten more "I dunno's", "I don't care's", and "I give up's" from my questioning that really shows that illegal lovers have not one leg to stand on. And all you have to contribute, Numero seis, is a slam as utterly out of context and meaningless as it take the cake that I ask that someone not put words in my mouth? Are you blind or merely insipid? For sure, you are in denial about the presentation your kindred spirits showed here, and your bias is showing.

If my bias is showing its because I don't like rude people and rude behaviour. You may think its out of context - but I see you making bald assumptions about people all over the shop, so complaining about having words put in your mouth seems rather hypocritical. If you don't like it - then perhaps doing it to others is a bit of no-no?

I don't like insipid people who rarely have anything substantive to add to a discussion, and who think that anyone who does is rude. I think the overly sensitive, easily hurt, lib types toss around accusations of rudeness and hyposcrisy when they have nothing better to say and no way to support their points. You fit that bill to a T, and if you don't like it, maybe you need to have something to say worth paying attention to rather than merely whining about how someone posts. If I hurt your little feelings so much, block me and don't waste your time whining about me.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I have never claimed that the "mere presence" of illegals in this country affects Americans negatively. I have always addressed the issue from the vantage points of illegal activity, what you have to do to enter, stay and work, and economically, that they take jobs from legals. Do not put words in my mouth.

You try to follow me. I asked you how supporting illegals benefits minorities and low-income Americans. Can you tell me?

Given your posts on this subject, here and in other threads - that really does take the cake.

On this thread, I have laid bare the ASSumptions, red herrings, and major trippin' that the lefties MUST do to appear to have a point. I have gotten more "I dunno's", "I don't care's", and "I give up's" from my questioning that really shows that illegal lovers have not one leg to stand on. And all you have to contribute, Numero seis, is a slam as utterly out of context and meaningless as it take the cake that I ask that someone not put words in my mouth? Are you blind or merely insipid? For sure, you are in denial about the presentation your kindred spirits showed here, and your bias is showing.

If my bias is showing its because I don't like rude people and rude behaviour. You may think its out of context - but I see you making bald assumptions about people all over the shop, so complaining about having words put in your mouth seems rather hypocritical. If you don't like it - then perhaps doing it to others is a bit of no-no?

I don't like insipid people who rarely have anything substantive to add to a discussion, and who think that anyone who does is rude. I think the overly sensitive, easily hurt, lib types toss around accusations of rudeness and hyposcrisy when they have nothing better to say and no way to support their points. You fit that bill to a T, and if you don't like it, maybe you need to have something to say worth paying attention to rather than merely whining about how someone posts. If I hurt your little feelings so much, block me and don't waste your time whining about me.

I expressed an opinion on the subject if this thread (see above - in response to Lisa's post). You ignored that. Your choice - I don't expect or particularly want a reply - but suggesting that I somehow have no opinion is a little weird from someone who apparently wants to discuss the topic.

And I toss around accusations of rudeness and hypocrisy when I see it demonstrated. And you have - on multiple occasions. Noone's forcing you or anyone else to agree, but I'd be rather surprised if I were the only person thinking it

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I have never claimed that the "mere presence" of illegals in this country affects Americans negatively. I have always addressed the issue from the vantage points of illegal activity, what you have to do to enter, stay and work, and economically, that they take jobs from legals. Do not put words in my mouth.

You try to follow me. I asked you how supporting illegals benefits minorities and low-income Americans. Can you tell me?

Given your posts on this subject, here and in other threads - that really does take the cake.

On this thread, I have laid bare the ASSumptions, red herrings, and major trippin' that the lefties MUST do to appear to have a point. I have gotten more "I dunno's", "I don't care's", and "I give up's" from my questioning that really shows that illegal lovers have not one leg to stand on. And all you have to contribute, Numero seis, is a slam as utterly out of context and meaningless as it take the cake that I ask that someone not put words in my mouth? Are you blind or merely insipid? For sure, you are in denial about the presentation your kindred spirits showed here, and your bias is showing.

If my bias is showing its because I don't like rude people and rude behaviour. You may think its out of context - but I see you making bald assumptions about people all over the shop, so complaining about having words put in your mouth seems rather hypocritical. If you don't like it - then perhaps doing it to others is a bit of no-no?

I don't like insipid people who rarely have anything substantive to add to a discussion, and who think that anyone who does is rude. I think the overly sensitive, easily hurt, lib types toss around accusations of rudeness and hyposcrisy when they have nothing better to say and no way to support their points. You fit that bill to a T, and if you don't like it, maybe you need to have something to say worth paying attention to rather than merely whining about how someone posts. If I hurt your little feelings so much, block me and don't waste your time whining about me.

I expressed an opinion on the subject if this thread (see above - in response to Lisa's post). You ignored that. Your choice - I don't expect or particularly want a reply - but suggesting that I somehow have no opinion is a little weird from someone who apparently wants to discuss the topic.

And I toss around accusations of rudeness and hypocrisy when I see it demonstrated. And you have - on multiple occasions. Noone's forcing you or anyone else to agree, but I'd be rather surprised if I were the only person thinking it

I read what you said, but there was nothing original about it and I had already addressed it. None of us know the circumstances of Tom's remodel, so how can we comment on them? We can't comment on them objectively, so that is a non-starter. That is was a hit piece has already been addressed, too. Been there, done that. The only thing you said that was worth commenting on is your personal put down of me which proved your bias. You had no comment on how Steven folded, PH made accusations she couldn't support, and how I wiped out the field with questions they dare not address. You came on merely to smear some more, so your comments about me do nothing more than show up your own inability to be substantive. You head for the insults while disclaiming to insult. It's so very transparent.

Now, ask for the thread to be locked because someone is not being nice to you.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Here's something I bet others are thinking, too. A lib who missed the entire show up til now suddenly appears in an immigration topic and insults someone just to start a tiff and have the thread locked so their side won't keep being embarrassed. This is predictable. Are you that guy, 6?

Edited December 2, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I read what you said, but there was nothing original about it and I had already addressed it. None of us know the circumstances of Tom's remodel, so how can we comment on them? We can't comment on them objectively, so that is a non-starter. That is was a hit piece has already been addressed, too. Been there, done that. The only thing you said that was worth commenting on is your personal put down of me which proved your bias. You had no comment on how Steven folded, PH made accusations she couldn't support, and how I wiped out the field with questions they dare not address. You came on merely to smear some more, so your comments about me do nothing more than show up your own inability to be substantive. You head for the insults while disclaiming to insult. It's so very transparent.

Now, ask for the thread to be locked because someone is not being nice to you.

Who honestly cares if you had addressed the points in my opinion or not? You may find this oddly surprising but I wasn't actually posting for your approval or enjoyment, nor is there any clause in the TOS that a person can only post if they say something that noone else has said. As I said - I didn't expect or want a reply.

As to why I didn't address the other points its simply because I don't consider them particularly relevant to mine. I don't think the OP article is a particularly good one to discuss illegal immigration, or indeed the record or candidacy of a Presidential candidate. There's enough smearing in politics, and there isn't any need to perpetuate it.

As I said - my "bias" has nothing to do with your opinion and everything to do with your attitude. If you can't handle that - perhaps you shouldn't reply, rather than digging the hole deeper and proving the point.

Here's something I bet others are thinking, too. A lib who missed the entire show up til now suddenly appears in an immigration topic and insults someone just to start a tiff and have the thread locked so their side won't keep being embarrassed. This is predictable. Are you that guy, 6?

I have no ability to influence the mods. They make their own decisions.

I wasn't aware that I had taken anyone's "side". I agree with some people, disagree with others - depending on the topic. I'm on my own "side", not some broad-brush clique.

And again - digging that hole deeper. Keep going - you'll get to China.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Number 6

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You said I ignored your splendid obsevations. I pointed out that you repeated what was already said. I don't care that you don't care. I was being polite and addressing WHY I hadn't commented on them. The only original thing you did was whine about the way I post. But, I'm not here to please you, so block me, or get over it. Sniveling is unattractive from you.

Now, if you have nothing else to add besides more "I don't like you", then I will ignore you for real, so don't complain about being ignored, because you have been warned.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You said I ignored your splendid obsevations. I pointed out that you repeated what was already said. I don't care that you don't care. I was being polite and addressing WHY I hadn't commented on them. The only original thing you did was whine about the way I post. But, I'm not here to please you, so block me, or get over it. Sniveling is unattractive from you.

Now, if you have nothing else to add besides more "I don't like you", then I will ignore you for real, so don't complain about being ignored, because you have been warned.

You implied I had no opinion. I merely pointed out that I did. I could equally say that because I've heard the same unpleasant guff from half a dozen people on illegal immigration that you therefore have no opinion. I could say that. But it wouldn't be true would it?

Coming to the thread as I did - rather late after being out all day yesterday (it's 9am here btw), its a fair bet that someone before me would have expressed a similar opinion.

Feel free to put me on ignore BTW - I'm sure the mods actually prefer us to sort out our differences that way, but the idea that not doing so is somehow doing me a favor is a little weird IMO. I don't hang on your every word..

Still - how long will it be until you have noone left to talk to? "

Edited December 2, 2007 by Number 6

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Feel free to put me on ignore BTW - I'm sure the mods actually prefer us to sort out our differences that way, but the idea that not doing so is somehow doing me a favor is a little weird IMO. I don't hang on your every word..

Still - how long will it be until you have noone left to talk to? "

You need to put me on ig. You actually spend time calculating how rude I am. I frankly rarely even notice you, so between us, I clearly impact your day more than you impact mine.

It's been never since I have to worry about having no one to talk to. Thin-skinned, quick to cry types are not the audience I seek anyway.

You have done a great job of diversion from the topic tho. I'll bet that was on purpose. I just hope more of your whiny friends don't come by to take a dump. The topic was more interesting then this.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Feel free to put me on ignore BTW - I'm sure the mods actually prefer us to sort out our differences that way, but the idea that not doing so is somehow doing me a favor is a little weird IMO. I don't hang on your every word..

Still - how long will it be until you have noone left to talk to? "

You need to put me on ig. You actually spend time calculating how rude I am. I frankly rarely even notice you, so between us, I clearly impact your day more than you impact mine.

It's been never since I have to worry about having no one to talk to. Thin-skinned, quick to cry types are not the audience I seek anyway.

You have done a great job or diversion from the topic tho. I'll bet that was on purpose. I just hope more of your whiny friends don't come by to take a dump. The topic was more interesting then this.

I have? You replied to my "take the cake" comment. Noone forced you to do that - you diverted the topic all on your own...

And oddly enough - considering that you balk about being called out for rudeness, I'm actually counting the number of insults you've thrown out at me - in fact you're leading the field on that score, by a substantial margin I might add.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Feel free to put me on ignore BTW - I'm sure the mods actually prefer us to sort out our differences that way, but the idea that not doing so is somehow doing me a favor is a little weird IMO. I don't hang on your every word..

Still - how long will it be until you have noone left to talk to? "

You need to put me on ig. You actually spend time calculating how rude I am. I frankly rarely even notice you, so between us, I clearly impact your day more than you impact mine.

It's been never since I have to worry about having no one to talk to. Thin-skinned, quick to cry types are not the audience I seek anyway.

You have done a great job or diversion from the topic tho. I'll bet that was on purpose. I just hope more of your whiny friends don't come by to take a dump. The topic was more interesting then this.

I have? You replied to my "take the cake" comment. Noone forced you to do that - you diverted the topic all on your own...

And oddly enough - considering that you balk about being called out for rudeness, I'm actually counting the number of insults you've thrown out at me - in fact you're leading the field on that score, by a substantial margin I might add.

Considering that you insulted me first, AND you keep coming back for more, despite your protestations to the contrary, you seem to be getting some delight from it.

Kinky . . .

There's more where this came from, but I'm gonna start charging you, k ching!

Edited December 2, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[GabachaYucateca 0]

A productive and civil discussion as always, I see.

Nothing productive to add as always, I see.

Hmmm...why no comment from Mr. Big Dog about Natty Bumpo's clock-watching directly above me? Gotta get a dig in there, don't ya Mr. Big Dog?

And why in hell does this always get soooo nasty?

I thought the comments from both Number 6 and LisaD were interesting...my thoughts on illegal immigration are anything but black and white. But this is the LAST place I'd discuss my ambivalence.

Last time I got some sort of annoying, condescending comment from GEG, who has stamped her superior knowledge and unrelentinglessness (is that a word?) all over this thread.

What an awful environment to exist in...I really think some of you are poisoning yourself with your vitriol. I wonder if you're generally such sour, know-it-all people in real life.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Considering that you insulted me first, AND you keep coming back for more, despite your protestations to the contrary, you seem to be getting some delight from it.

Kinky . . .

I pointed out that I found your general attitude unpleasant. It is what it is - if you take it as an insult - that's your beef.

Besides - that whole "you started it" thing is rather immature, no?