Police certificate - Abkhazia, Republic of Georgia

[Chris Parker 11]

The immigrant visa applicant in our case was born in Abkhazia, Republic of Georgia and lived there until about age 20. She left there 30 years ago to move to Russia, at a time when these countries were all part of USSR. Today, Abkhazia is a separatist-controlled region of the Republic of Georgia. In other words, it is sort of a war zone that the Republic of Georgia has no control over. This separatist government has its own declaration of independence, its own constitution, its own flag, and its own president, although it isn't internationally recognized by any country in the world. However, U.S. Embassy in Georgia has indicated they would expect a police certificate from Georgia for a residence period in Abkhazia. However, we would be applying for an immigrant visa in Russia, not in Georgia.

All other relatives have left Abkhazia permanently, mostly in a sort of exile to Russia about 15 years ago, and all have great fear of persecution from the governments of Abkhazia and/or Georgia, including the immigrant visa applicant especially. The issue of loyalties is a very politically-sensitive issue in all three places (Georgia, Russia, and Abkhazia) for which people can be put into prison or worse for their background or views. The border and mail service is also closed indefinitely between Russia and Georgia because of strained relations on this and other subjects. Therefore, to get mail to the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, or to in fact travel there from Russia, one must route via a 3rd country, such as Armenia or USA. This situation is something like trying to go to Cuba from the USA, which BTW is illegal for U.S. citizens without official permission.

Some of this situation is also documented in the U.S. Consular Information Sheet for Georgia, although that document also states police certificates are available from Georgia's centralized database in the capital city or by mail or by representative. Nobody answers the phone in the office of the police department in the Georgian capital city where police certificates are usually issued. The Georgian embassy in Russia also refuses to apply for the certificate on the applicant's behalf, arguing only that the applicant must get a police certificate from Russia (which we know and we already have). It is questionable if the police certificate could even be issued, given the Georgian government's lack of control and access to local records in Abkhazia, as well as the passage of time (30+ years). Whether a police certificate from the de facto separatist government of Abkhazia would be accepted instead to meet the requirement, if it were somehow obtained, is also still unclear given the word "locality" used in the NVC police certificate instructions.

Now, the obvious question comes up, is a police certificate from Georgia and/or Abkhazia really going to be required from the immigrant visa applicant under these circumstances? It is a very risky and expensive proposition to go to Tbilisi, Georgia, to attempt to apply for a police certificate, and I am under the impression that a police certificate requirement can be waived by the consular officer as unobtainable if it would cause extreme hardship to the applicant to get it, as it appears to me that it would in this situation.

Does anyone have any advice, comments, experience or suggestions on getting a required police certificate for a previous place of residence waived given extraordinary circumstances and multiple obstacles such as this situation? This is a very disturbing problem for all of us. How do refugees and stateless persons accomplish this feat?

Edited September 21, 2007 by Chris Parker

[YuAndDan 153]

Police and Prison Records

Available. The Information Center of the Ministry of Internal Affairs maintains a centralized database of police and prison records indexed by name, date and place of birth. The records also contain fingerprints of convicted persons. The records are maintained at the:

Ministry of Internal Affairs

Information Center

8 Gulua Street

Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia.

Point of contact is:

Mr. Ghia Chanturidze

First floor

Room #2

Telephone 995 (32) 99 15 82

Individuals living in Tbilisi may obtain police and prison records free of charge upon direct application to the Ministry of Internal Affairs within five working days. Individuals complete an application form which includes information on their full name including patronymic and their Georgian personal identification number. Persons living outside of Tbilisi or outside of Georgia can apply by proxy (e.g. relative in Tbilisi) or through the mail with a written request stating the type of record required and the purpose for which the information is being sought.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/reciproc...ocity_3566.html

[Chris Parker 11]

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/reciproc...ocity_3566.html

I know all this already, as I described. It is not as simple as the reciprocity document describes in our case. I see you read very little of what I wrote, but thank you for inserting this link into the discussion thread so other readers can get more background on situation I am up against.

Edited September 21, 2007 by Chris Parker

[mendeleev 68]

The lawless situation in Abkhazia is reasonably very troubling for you. It appears that your beneficiary may have a well-founded fear of persecution concerning return to either Georgia or Abkhazia. This gives her certain rights under US refugee law. I am not an attorney and don't know much about modern US refugee law and whether it may give you any remedies concerning this police certificate.

You probably need legal advice on this point from an immigration attorney. Ideally the attorney you need will be versed both in refugee law and US family-based immigration law. It isn't clear that the lawyers occasionally mentioned and well-regarded on this board are suitable for your case.

A query outlining this information to the US embassy in Moscow may also prove helpful. The Moscow embassy will be well aware of the closed border between Georgia and Russia and the lawless situation in Abkhazia (which the US government frequently criticizes Russia over, since the illegal Abkhaz government in viewed by some as a Russian puppet. (I thought the Abkhaz government was in fact recognized by Russia. Maybe I am wrong.) They may be able to provide some insight as to whether they will in fact strictly require this particular police certificate (presuming the Russian ones are "clean").

Good luck to you and yours -- and please post continuing developments.

You may want to cross-post to the Russia section.

Edited September 22, 2007 by novotul

[slim 1,525]

I would send a detailed e-mail to the U.S. embassy in Moscow explaining the situation and asking for their guidance. Stress the fact that obtaining a police certificate from Georgia is extremely difficult and could cause harm to the applicant.

They should be able to give you some kind of guidance from their end or at least be able to connect you with the right people.

If worst comes to worst, I wouldn't even worry about the police cert. It was so long ago and in a country like "Krakozhia" so it's not like you really could get one anyway. If they argued that she needed one, you could argue that she didn't because the country she resided in was covered under the USSR (which should now be covered under Russia) at the time and since then, she's been living in Russia. If there's no govt. to get the cert. from, who could you possibly petition to get one?

[Chris Parker 11]

Well, we made the strongest attempt yet to try to get this police certificate from Republic of Georgia ...

We gave a friend in Armenia with an Armenian passport a notarized application letter and a notarized power of attorney from the immigrant visa beneficiary in Russia to go to Tbilisi from the Armenia-Georgia border side to try to get the police certificate for us.

The friend wisely checked with the Georgian consulate in Yerevan, Armenia just before embarking on this extraordinary journey, to make sure all plans were in order. The Georgian consulate told the friend nothing, except that the police certificate application must be brought in person to Tbilisi. Nevertheless, Georgian border authorities would not allow the friend to enter their country. In the story relayed back to us of this ordeal, the Georgian border officials on the ground told the friend with the authorization letter that anyone from Russia or Abkhazia (or, apparently having any ties to such a person or traveling on their behalf, as the friend was) must pay a $3000 border crossing penalty and/or serve 3 years imprisonment, per Georgian Presidential decree from this summer. You do not want to be in that kind of circumstance!

That's it for me, no matter what the U.S. embassy's country-specific reciprocity sheet says for Georgia, there is currently no way, (1) by mail, or (2) in person, or (3) via consulate, for us to get a police certificate or letter of "record unavailable" from the Republic of Georgia for former residence in Abkhazia. All the borders to that country are closed, in every way, by the country itself, for this purpose.

Now, are there any suggestions from anyone here on what the affidavit from the friend (now safely back in Armenia, thank God) about this ordeal to obtain the police certificate should or should not say?

Edited October 29, 2007 by Chris Parker

[Chris Parker 11]

UPDATE: The interview was today, this was one of the issues, here's basically how I'm told the situation went...

Background: NVC completed the case with just the Russian police certificate and made no determination about whether a second police certificate from Georgia would also be required.

At check-in, the Moscow embassy did ask for a police certificate from Georgia. When told we didn't have it, the clerk asked a consular officer how to proceed. They allowed her to interview without it.

At the interview, the question was asked about if she had tried to get a police certificate from Georgia. She explained we had tried but could not get it (maybe more detail was provided orally, I'm not sure yet). The consular officer then waived the requirement for this police certificate and continued the interview. No documents were requested to prove the attempts to get the police certificate, though we had what we could to show for it, but nothing official from Georgia.

So, the conclusion is you must make some reasonable efforts to obtain police certificates from other former Soviet republics and they will be asked for, but NVC and the embassy seems pretty aware that they are usually unobtainable, at least this is the case for Georgia at the present time with the borders between the Russia & Georgia countries closed, and in particular for people from Abkhazia who are considered repugnant to Georgia, even though Georgia also insists Abkhazia exists within its borders.

Glad this issue is finally resolved and done with!

Edited January 10, 2008 by Chris Parker

[Chris Parker 11]

She explained we had tried but could not get it (maybe more detail was provided orally, I'm not sure yet). The consular officer then waived the requirement for this police certificate and continued the interview. No documents were requested to prove the attempts to get the police certificate, though we had what we could to show fo it but nothing official from Georgia.

Actually, as a further update to this, they actually did ask for evidence of the attempts made to get the Georgian police certificate. However, the document they were most interested in and upon which they made the decision to waive the requirement was none of our actual documents showing attempts made, but rather our printout of their own Consular Information Sheet for Georgia, which officially discusses the political situation of Abkhazia and the closed border situation between Georgia and Russia. Never underestimate the value of showing the embassy their own documents?