Blacks in U.S. imprisoned at 5 times the rate of whites

[peejay 327]

The thing that stuck out like a sore thumb from this article was that the worst ratios were in the liberal Northern Blue states whose occupants often snear at the South in a condescending Holier-than-Thou manner and often have never even traveled or lived in the South.

Appears to me the sneering goes both ways.

It's not a snear...it's an observation from several years of reading posts here on VJ. It really is quite noticable.

Even though I was born in the South, I do not have the heritage of the Old South as my ancestors were from elsewhere. So I'm not making this observation as a true Son of the South. I call 'em like I see 'em.

[Scott & Lai 12]

Its not rocket science to draw parallels between poverty and crime. They have always been related IMO. If anything this just shows that its a national problem - and that no one area yet has a handle on combatting the root cause.

Combating poverty and illiteracy is a worthy cause, but at the same time, it doesn't mean that

we shouldn't be locking up African American criminals just because they exceed some ratio.

The reasons people choose to engage in criminal activity and the justice system's response to criminal activity are two separate issues. A person's ethnicity/economic status/whatever should have zero bearing on the penalty they receive for crimes they commit. That is why the statue of Justice is blind.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Hmmmmmm?

In 1957, Orval Faubus, the governor of Arkansas, called out his state's National Guard to prevent the integration of Central High School in Little Rock. In response, President Dwight D. Eisenhower sent U.S. troops to the city to escort nine frightened black teens into the school past riotous mobs inflamed by Faubus' defiance of a federal court order. Faubus was a Democrat. Eisenhower was a Republican.

On June 11, 1963, Alabama Gov. George Wallace stood in the doorway of the University of Alabama to block its integration. Wallace was a Democrat. Now, I grant you, John F. Kennedy was the Democrat president who federalized the Alabama National Guard and ordered its units to the university to force its doors open to black students. But it's not generally known that the then-Sen. Kennedy – with an eye on the Democrat presidential nomination for 1960 – voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1957, the law that really got the ball rolling on federal civil rights legislation.

And it was Kennedy's brother, Robert, who in 1964 assisted the FBI's efforts to destroy Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. by approving the wiretapping of the man considered the heart and soul of the civil rights movement

http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/pcism/sad_history.htm

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its not rocket science to draw parallels between poverty and crime. They have always been related IMO. If anything this just shows that its a national problem - and that no one area yet has a handle on combatting the root cause.

Combating poverty and illiteracy is a worthy cause, but at the same time, it doesn't mean that

we shouldn't be locking up African American criminals just because they exceed some ratio.

The reasons people choose to engage in criminal activity and the justice system's response to criminal activity are two separate issues. A person's ethnicity/economic status/whatever should have zero bearing on the penalty they receive for crimes they commit. That is why the statue of Justice is blind.

That wasn't what I was suggesting. Just whenever this subject comes up we always end straying very close to making unsavoury claims about "why" more of group X is in prison compared to everyone else. Has nothing to do with giving people a break on crimes they have committed (noone is going to say a guy should get less time for murder because he was desperate and/or drug-addicted) and everything to do with realising that certain people are more likely to turn to crime if their environment is one that propagates it in the first place.

[Heracles 417]

Its not rocket science to draw parallels between poverty and crime. They have always been related IMO. If anything this just shows that its a national problem - and that no one area yet has a handle on combatting the root cause.

With all things being equal, is the crime rate the same amongst poor black, white and Hispanic groups? I think not. Simply saying poverty is the problem is denial.

Is education valued the same in various races?

Is the perceived responsibility of parents the same amongst various races?

Is the teen pregnancy rates the same amongst the various races?

Is violence and vandalism of public and others property the same amongst the various races?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

When you speak of white people, which white people do you refer to?

German immigrants with PhDs?

White trash inbreds in Appalachia?

C-Level WASPs who work for Goldman Sachs?

Polish-American cops in New Jersey?

They are all different enough to make all your generalizations across race meaningless.

Edited July 19, 2007 by VJ Troll

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its not rocket science to draw parallels between poverty and crime. They have always been related IMO. If anything this just shows that its a national problem - and that no one area yet has a handle on combatting the root cause.

With all things being equal, is the crime rate the same amongst poor black, white and Hispanic groups? I think not. Simply saying poverty is the problem is denial.

Is education valued the same in various races?

Is the perceived responsibility of parents the same amongst various races?

Is the teen pregnancy rates the same amongst the various races?

Is violence and vandalism of public and others property the same amongst the various races?

And again - you say things like this and complain when people call you out for racism.

Now before you vehemently deny it (and no doubt trot out the old "how liberals like to label" rubbish - at least consider that in the above post you have just suggested that race is the root cause of various social problems affecting minorities.

On all of those issues - there are marked distinctions, but as communities appear to naturally segregate themselves along racial lines - I'm not sure how it can be claimed with any authority, that it has much to do with 'race' as social organisation and socioeconomic factors pertaining to those groups.

[almaty 19]

that it has much to do with 'race' as social organisation and socioeconomic factors pertaining to those groups.

true for allot of situations...

[Heracles 417]

Now before you vehemently deny it (and no doubt trot out the old "how liberals like to label" rubbish - at least consider that in the above post you have just suggested that race is the root cause of various social problems affecting minorities.

On all of those issues - there are marked distinctions, but as communities appear to naturally segregate themselves along racial lines - I'm not sure how it can be claimed with any authority, that it has much to do with 'race' as social organisation and socioeconomic factors pertaining to those groups.

Sick and tired of that 'generalization' whenever someone identifies an issue about a particular group. You are the one who refuses to accept that crime in not simply related to poverty but a range of other factors, including cultural acceptance.

The following is a great example of a difference amongst class / cultural boundaries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Snitchin%27

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Now before you vehemently deny it (and no doubt trot out the old "how liberals like to label" rubbish - at least consider that in the above post you have just suggested that race is the root cause of various social problems affecting minorities.

On all of those issues - there are marked distinctions, but as communities appear to naturally segregate themselves along racial lines - I'm not sure how it can be claimed with any authority, that it has much to do with 'race' as social organisation and socioeconomic factors pertaining to those groups.

Sick and tired of that 'generalization' whenever someone identifies an issue about a particular group. You are the one who refuses to accept that crime in not simply related to poverty but a range of other factors, including cultural acceptance.

The following is a great example of a difference amongst class / cultural boundaries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Snitchin%27

If you can't see that what you wrote in that previous post is... well... the very definition of racism, then there's no helping you.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Number 6

[Heracles 417]

If you can't see that what you wrote in that previous post is... well... the very definition of racism, then there's no helping you.

I said lets break down crime and poverty into a cultural / class level and you call that racist. I asked a rage a questions pointing out that the general answer within the various cultures / groups would probably be different, you call it racist.

Your seriously becoming the new Alex+R of the forum.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If you can't see that what you wrote in that previous post is... well... the very definition of racism, then there's no helping you.

I said lets break down crime and poverty into a cultural / class level and you call that racist. I asked a rage a questions pointing out that the general answer within the various cultures / groups would probably be different, you call it racist.

If that was your intent - your wording was rather #######-eyed. You didn't break it down by culture / class, you broke it down by race - saying that minorities are irresponsible and violent - with no interest in education.

You keep mistaking correlation with causality.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The thing that stuck out like a sore thumb from this article was that the worst ratios were in the liberal Northern Blue states whose occupants often snear at the South in a condescending Holier-than-Thou manner and often have never even traveled or lived in the South.

Appears to me the sneering goes both ways.

It's not a snear...it's an observation from several years of reading posts here on VJ. It really is quite noticable.

Even though I was born in the South, I do not have the heritage of the Old South as my ancestors were from elsewhere. So I'm not making this observation as a true Son of the South. I call 'em like I see 'em.

Peejay, based on your observations, why do you suppose the great disparity? What about divisions along economic lines? Educational background? The Bell Curve showed a disparity of intelligence along ethnic lines, but drawing any conclusions that racial ethnicity has any bearing on intelligence from a biological point of view is erroneous.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The thing that stuck out like a sore thumb from this article was that the worst ratios were in the liberal Northern Blue states whose occupants often snear at the South in a condescending Holier-than-Thou manner and often have never even traveled or lived in the South.

Appears to me the sneering goes both ways.

It's not a snear...it's an observation from several years of reading posts here on VJ. It really is quite noticable.

Even though I was born in the South, I do not have the heritage of the Old South as my ancestors were from elsewhere. So I'm not making this observation as a true Son of the South. I call 'em like I see 'em.

Peejay, based on your observations, why do you suppose the great disparity? What about divisions along economic lines? Educational background? The Bell Curve showed a disparity of intelligence along ethnic lines, but drawing any conclusions that racial ethnicity has any bearing on intelligence from a biological point of view is erroneous.

Exactly. As I said - its erroneous at best to mistake correlation with cause.

[Heracles 417]

TOP 14 most dangerous cities in the US.

1. Camden, NJ - The racial makeup of the city was 16.84% White, 53.35% Black or African American

2. Detroit, MI - The racial makeup of the city was 81.55% African American, 12.26% of residents are White

3. Atlanta, GA - The racial makeup of the city is 61.39% Black, 33.22% White, 1.93% Asian

4. St. Louis, MO - The racial makeup of the city of St. Louis was 51.20% African American, 43.85% White

5. Gary, IN - The racial makeup of the city was 84.03% African American, 11.92% White

6. Washington, DC - The racial makeup of the city was 58.04% African American, 39.02% White

7. Hartford, CT - The racial makeup of the city was 17.72% White, 38.05% Black

8. New Orleans, LA - The racial makeup of the city was 67.25% African American, 28.05% White

9. Richmond, VA - The racial makeup of the city was 38.30% White, 57.19% African American

10. Birmingham, AL - The racial makeup of the city was 73.46% Black or African American, 24.07% White

11. Baltimore, MD - The racial makeup of the city was 64.34% Black or African American, 31.63% White

12. Richmond, CA - The racial makeup of the city was 21.36% white, 36.06% black or African American

13. Memphis, TN - The racial makeup of the city was 61.41% African American, 34.41% White

14. Jackson, MS - The racial makeup of the city was 27.79% White or Caucasian, 70.64% Black or African American

Based on various assumptions here, there should be a range of cities with a high portion of Caucasians and Hispanics. After all black Americans are not the only poor in America. 45,000,000+ Americans live in 'poverty'. Roughly 8,750,000 Black Americans live in poverty. There is clearly no correlation between poverty and crime as the rate of poverty amongst Black Americans is not 5 times the national average; when compared to being imprisoned.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Boo-Yah!