Giuliani cites Glasgow attack in call for immigration policy

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Rudy is pro-amnesty and would sign amnesty legislation in a New York minute just as fast as George Bush would.

We gotta give these people amnesty to bring them "out of the shadows" so we know who they are? Rudy has said as much. Ridiculous!

As if the well funded terrorists are going to come forward to be scrutinized. I doubt they would. Amnestying illegal aliens will not make our country safer. Securing the borders and enforcing the law will make our countrty safer.

Really...giving illegal aliens amnesty to find out who they are is about as stupid as the logic of giving amnesty to a thief to find out who committed a crime and then letting them keep the loot. There is no enforcement credibility going on with that kind of lame policy to deter illegal behavior.

Fund and enforce the law. Secure the border. Our country will not collapse economically if we do that. Give it a try. It hasn't been done since Eisenhower was president.

Why, Peejay, when you are in the minority on this issue? Whoever is elected President should consider the voice of the people and that voice has been saying they are in favor of offering work visas to the millions of illegals who are here.

Your opinion only. I do not believe a vast majority of Americans think that rewarding illegal aliens for flipping the middle finger at our laws is the right thing to do. You know good and well that Bush/McKennedy Immigration reform was a massive amnesty for almost all the illegal aliens in the country and whomever else could scam/cheat their way into it by illegally immigrating later...even in the timeframe while it would have been implemented. Fraudsters and cheaters could care less about obeying the law. Before or after.

The American people are tired of that horsesh*t. They want the laws enforced and the border secured. Not more lame "up front" blanket amnesties and pie in the sky promises of future illegal alien crackdowns that never happen.

No...Americans have seen 7 illegal alien amnesties come and go without any of the lame promises of border enforcement and law enforcement being kept.

I'm not in the minority in this! Prove otherwise!

Sorry, devilette...I'll just give peejay the proof he asks for...

May 25, 2007

Immigration Bill Provisions Gain Wide Support in Poll

As opponents from the right and left challenge an immigration bill before Congress, there is broad support among Americans — Democrats, Republicans and independents alike — for the major provisions in the legislation, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Taking a pragmatic view on a divisive issue, a large majority of Americans want to change the immigration laws to allow illegal immigrants to gain legal status and to create a new guest worker program to meet future labor demands, the poll found.

...

Two-thirds of those polled said illegal immigrants who had a good employment history and no criminal record should gain legal status as the bill proposes, which is by paying at least $5,000 in fines and fees and receiving a renewable four-year visa.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/25/us/25pol...agewanted=print

...

Peejay, let's not derail this thread - just accept that there is no mandate of the people that you claim to be behind. You have a right to your opinion and a right to vote for the candidate you think supports your opinion, but realize you are not in the majority on this issue.

[natty bumppo 297]

Rudy is pro-amnesty and would sign amnesty legislation in a New York minute just as fast as George Bush would.

We gotta give these people amnesty to bring them "out of the shadows" so we know who they are? Rudy has said as much. Ridiculous!

As if the well funded terrorists are going to come forward to be scrutinized. I doubt they would. Amnestying illegal aliens will not make our country safer. Securing the borders and enforcing the law will make our countrty safer.

Really...giving illegal aliens amnesty to find out who they are is about as stupid as the logic of giving amnesty to a thief to find out who committed a crime and then letting them keep the loot. There is no enforcement credibility going on with that kind of lame policy to deter illegal behavior.

Fund and enforce the law. Secure the border. Our country will not collapse economically if we do that. Give it a try. It hasn't been done since Eisenhower was president.

Why, Peejay, when you are in the minority on this issue? Whoever is elected President should consider the voice of the people and that voice has been saying they are in favor of offering work visas to the millions of illegals who are here.

Your opinion only. I do not believe a vast majority of Americans think that rewarding illegal aliens for flipping the middle finger at our laws is the right thing to do. You know good and well that Bush/McKennedy Immigration reform was a massive amnesty for almost all the illegal aliens in the country and whomever else could scam/cheat their way into it by illegally immigrating later...even in the timeframe while it would have been implemented. Fraudsters and cheaters could care less about obeying the law. Before or after.

The American people are tired of that horsesh*t. They want the laws enforced and the border secured. Not more lame "up front" blanket amnesties and pie in the sky promises of future illegal alien crackdowns that never happen.

No...Americans have seen 7 illegal alien amnesties come and go without any of the lame promises of border enforcement and law enforcement being kept.

I'm not in the minority in this! Prove otherwise!

Sorry, devilette...I'll just give peejay the proof he asks for...

May 25, 2007

Immigration Bill Provisions Gain Wide Support in Poll

As opponents from the right and left challenge an immigration bill before Congress, there is broad support among Americans — Democrats, Republicans and independents alike — for the major provisions in the legislation, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Taking a pragmatic view on a divisive issue, a large majority of Americans want to change the immigration laws to allow illegal immigrants to gain legal status and to create a new guest worker program to meet future labor demands, the poll found.

...

Two-thirds of those polled said illegal immigrants who had a good employment history and no criminal record should gain legal status as the bill proposes, which is by paying at least $5,000 in fines and fees and receiving a renewable four-year visa.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/25/us/25pol...agewanted=print

...

Peejay, let's not derail this thread - just accept that there is no mandate of the people that you claim to be behind. You have a right to your opinion and a right to vote for the candidate you think supports your opinion, but realize you are not in the majority on this issue.

"The nationwide telephone poll did not ask respondents about the immigration bill itself, but there were questions about its most significant provisions. It was conducted May 18 to 23 with 1,125 adults ..."

Leading government sources say ...

According to immigration experts ...

Polls to "not ask respondents about the immigration bill itself" indicate ...

Americans are more likely too ...

Who decided what was "significant provisions"?

Lot's of wordsmithing

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Sorry, I don't want to derail this topic, but Peejay steven often interjects his views on illegal immigration global warming into just about every thread or post.

there, much better now

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

If the perpetrators turn out to be UK citizens - that doesn't really support his argument.

Which I think will most certainly be the case

[no name 1]

Sorry, I don't want to derail this topic, but Peejay steven often interjects his views on illegal immigration global warming and skewed immigration results into just about every thread or post.

there, much better now

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Rudy is pro-amnesty and would sign amnesty legislation in a New York minute just as fast as George Bush would.

We gotta give these people amnesty to bring them "out of the shadows" so we know who they are? Rudy has said as much. Ridiculous!

As if the well funded terrorists are going to come forward to be scrutinized. I doubt they would. Amnestying illegal aliens will not make our country safer. Securing the borders and enforcing the law will make our countrty safer.

Really...giving illegal aliens amnesty to find out who they are is about as stupid as the logic of giving amnesty to a thief to find out who committed a crime and then letting them keep the loot. There is no enforcement credibility going on with that kind of lame policy to deter illegal behavior.

Fund and enforce the law. Secure the border. Our country will not collapse economically if we do that. Give it a try. It hasn't been done since Eisenhower was president.

Why, Peejay, when you are in the minority on this issue? Whoever is elected President should consider the voice of the people and that voice has been saying they are in favor of offering work visas to the millions of illegals who are here.

Your opinion only. I do not believe a vast majority of Americans think that rewarding illegal aliens for flipping the middle finger at our laws is the right thing to do. You know good and well that Bush/McKennedy Immigration reform was a massive amnesty for almost all the illegal aliens in the country and whomever else could scam/cheat their way into it by illegally immigrating later...even in the timeframe while it would have been implemented. Fraudsters and cheaters could care less about obeying the law. Before or after.

The American people are tired of that horsesh*t. They want the laws enforced and the border secured. Not more lame "up front" blanket amnesties and pie in the sky promises of future illegal alien crackdowns that never happen.

No...Americans have seen 7 illegal alien amnesties come and go without any of the lame promises of border enforcement and law enforcement being kept.

I'm not in the minority in this! Prove otherwise!

Sorry, devilette...I'll just give peejay the proof he asks for...

May 25, 2007

Immigration Bill Provisions Gain Wide Support in Poll

As opponents from the right and left challenge an immigration bill before Congress, there is broad support among Americans — Democrats, Republicans and independents alike — for the major provisions in the legislation, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

Taking a pragmatic view on a divisive issue, a large majority of Americans want to change the immigration laws to allow illegal immigrants to gain legal status and to create a new guest worker program to meet future labor demands, the poll found.

...

Two-thirds of those polled said illegal immigrants who had a good employment history and no criminal record should gain legal status as the bill proposes, which is by paying at least $5,000 in fines and fees and receiving a renewable four-year visa.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/25/us/25pol...agewanted=print

...

Peejay, let's not derail this thread - just accept that there is no mandate of the people that you claim to be behind. You have a right to your opinion and a right to vote for the candidate you think supports your opinion, but realize you are not in the majority on this issue.

"The nationwide telephone poll did not ask respondents about the immigration bill itself, but there were questions about its most significant provisions. It was conducted May 18 to 23 with 1,125 adults ..."

Leading government sources say ...

According to immigration experts ...

Polls to "not ask respondents about the immigration bill itself" indicate ...

Americans are more likely too ...

Who decided what was "significant provisions"?

Lot's of wordsmithing

I really don't see this as conspiratorial on the part of the pollsters or that Americans were unclear about what they were responding to... To suggest that people didn't know the details of the bill and therefore the polls were invalidate is a stretch. This how polls are conducted. It baffles me that anyone would NOT see this as an overwhelming majority of support for that provision of the bill. I understand it's dead now, but let's not pretend that the death of the bill was a mandate from the people against offering temporary work visas for the millions of illegals that are here.

from the web page that I posted above...

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

from the web page that I posted above...

yeah, nytime

[peejay 327]

Sorry, I don't want to derail this topic, but Peejay often interjects his views on illegal immigration into just about every thread or post.

I thought this thread was about Rudy Giuliani's views on immigration policy. I think Rudy's past and present views/statements on illegal immigration are pertinent to the thread. As are his views on illegal alien terrorists such as the ones that carried out the 1993 and 2001 World Trade Center attacks in NYC. The fact that he is pro-amnesty and the fact that at least some of these terrorists are/were illegal aliens (one was even amnestied in the 1986 amnesty) is very pertinent.

I just stated why I don't agree with Rudy and why I wouldn't vote for him. Excuse me for the perceived faux pas.

Read my post! Look at the title of this thread!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Sorry, I don't want to derail this topic, but Peejay often interjects his views on illegal immigration into just about every thread or post.

I thought this thread was about Rudy Giuliani's views on immigration policy. I think Rudy's past and present views/statements on illegal immigration are pertinent to the thread. As are his views on illegal alien terrorists such as the ones that carried out the 1993 and 2001 World Trade Center attacks in NYC. The fact that he is pro-amnesty and the fact that at least some of these terrorists are/were illegal aliens (one was even amnestied in the 1986 amnesty) is very pertinent.

I just stated why I don't agree with Rudy and why I wouldn't vote for him. Excuse me for the perceived faux pas.

Read my post! Look at the title of this thread!

But do you accept the results of those polls?

[GaryC 7]

Sorry, I don't want to derail this topic, but Peejay often interjects his views on illegal immigration into just about every thread or post.

I thought this thread was about Rudy Giuliani's views on immigration policy. I think Rudy's past and present views/statements on illegal immigration are pertinent to the thread. As are his views on illegal alien terrorists such as the ones that carried out the 1993 and 2001 World Trade Center attacks in NYC. The fact that he is pro-amnesty and the fact that at least some of these terrorists are/were illegal aliens (one was even amnestied in the 1986 amnesty) is very pertinent.

I just stated why I don't agree with Rudy and why I wouldn't vote for him. Excuse me for the perceived faux pas.

Read my post! Look at the title of this thread!

But do you accept the results of those polls?

The poll is bogus. Push polling is a dishonest thing and that is what you are sighting. Most Americans don't want amnesty for illegals. Spin it all you want, your in the minority.

New Zogby Poll Shows Americans Overwhelmingly Support Enforcement Over Amnesty

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Send this article to a friend!

An opinion survey conducted by the Zogby polling organization on behalf of the Center for Immigration Studies shows that by better than a two-to-one ratio, Americans prefer the enforcement approach offered in the immigration bill passed by the House of Representatives last December to the Senate’s guest worker amnesty bill. The poll, conducted in late April amidst a heated national and congressional debate about immigration policy, found that 64 percent of Americans favor legislation that includes enforcement measures only, while only 30 percent would approve of a bill that includes amnesty and new guest worker programs.

Public support for the House enforcement-only approach cut across all political, racial and ethnic groups. While President Bush has actively promoted an illegal alien amnesty and massive increases in guest workers (who, in reality, will not be guests but permanent residents), 81 percent of Republican voters disagree, as do 57 percent of registered Democrats, 72 percent of independents, and even 53 percent of registered Hispanic voters.

The significance of the Zogby poll is that it refutes numerous “push polls” that have been conducted over the past several months, designed to create the appearance that Americans support “a pathway to citizenship” for millions of illegal aliens. President Bush and other amnesty supporters have actively engaged in an effort to convince the American public that the only options for dealing with the illegal immigration crisis are mass legalization or mass deportation. In an April speech in Orange County, California, President Bush justified amnesty as the only practical solution because, in his words, “we cannot deport 12 million people. It’s just not practical.”

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?page...earch_jun06nl11

[natty bumppo 297]

Sorry, I don't want to derail this topic, but Peejay often interjects his views on illegal immigration into just about every thread or post.

I thought this thread was about Rudy Giuliani's views on immigration policy. I think Rudy's past and present views/statements on illegal immigration are pertinent to the thread. As are his views on illegal alien terrorists such as the ones that carried out the 1993 and 2001 World Trade Center attacks in NYC. The fact that he is pro-amnesty and the fact that at least some of these terrorists are/were illegal aliens (one was even amnestied in the 1986 amnesty) is very pertinent.

I just stated why I don't agree with Rudy and why I wouldn't vote for him. Excuse me for the perceived faux pas.

Read my post! Look at the title of this thread!

But do you accept the results of those polls?

No !

Questions are easily formatted to reach the polling entities desired position. Here are some samples ...

1st question ... would you favor or oppose a guest worker program?

Isn't there a program like this already? Do we need a new one?

2nd question … how should priority be given when admitting immigrants?

Family in the US option. Does this differentiate that the family is a USC petitioning for the spouse (as we are) … or a LPR or other temp immigrant bringing the rest of the clan? I believe this question needs clearer options otherwise those of us on vj … could take second place to a programmer from “country xyz” . Nice thought.

3rd question ... should illegal immigrants (notice the term is not illegal aliens which is the proper term) get a renewable visa if they pay a fine, have a clean record and a background check?

Say yes ... you agree with the purpose of the poll and there is nothing to differentiate between today’s normal process and the proposed amnesty. Heck ... fly your spouse here today, pay a fine, do the other paperwork, and quickly have your spouse here ... no waiting.

Say no ... and the current system (background check, clean record, fees) is wrong for permitting immigrants into the US.

4th question ... what should happen to illegal immigrants (notice the term is not illegal aliens which is the proper term) who have been in the US for at least the 2 years?

question #3 was a nice lead into this question. So ... this question doesn't address the clean record ... background check ... the fact these people have already broken the law or that the person will not be a burden on society.

[natty bumppo 297]

4th question ... what should happen to illegal immigrants (notice the term is not illegal aliens which is the proper term) who have been in the US for at least the 2 years?

question #3 was a nice lead into this question. So ... this question doesn't address the clean record ... background check ... the fact these people have already broken the law or that the person will not be a burden on society.

Shouldn't this say ... should the USA have a visa process that is administered fairly to ALL immigrants.

Note ... this question begs another question ...

If the US grants amnesty to illegal aliens, should the US have a visa process?

[Dan J 277]

Sorry, I don't want to derail this topic, but Peejay often interjects his views on illegal immigration into just about every thread or post.

I thought this thread was about Rudy Giuliani's views on immigration policy. I think Rudy's past and present views/statements on illegal immigration are pertinent to the thread. As are his views on illegal alien terrorists such as the ones that carried out the 1993 and 2001 World Trade Center attacks in NYC. The fact that he is pro-amnesty and the fact that at least some of these terrorists are/were illegal aliens (one was even amnestied in the 1986 amnesty) is very pertinent.

I just stated why I don't agree with Rudy and why I wouldn't vote for him. Excuse me for the perceived faux pas.

Read my post! Look at the title of this thread!

But do you accept the results of those polls?

The poll is bogus. Push polling is a dishonest thing and that is what you are sighting. Most Americans don't want amnesty for illegals. Spin it all you want, your in the minority.

New Zogby Poll Shows Americans Overwhelmingly Support Enforcement Over Amnesty

Printer-Friendly Version

Send this article to a friend!

An opinion survey conducted by the Zogby polling organization on behalf of the Center for Immigration Studies shows that by better than a two-to-one ratio, Americans prefer the enforcement approach offered in the immigration bill passed by the House of Representatives last December to the Senate’s guest worker amnesty bill. The poll, conducted in late April amidst a heated national and congressional debate about immigration policy, found that 64 percent of Americans favor legislation that includes enforcement measures only, while only 30 percent would approve of a bill that includes amnesty and new guest worker programs.

Public support for the House enforcement-only approach cut across all political, racial and ethnic groups. While President Bush has actively promoted an illegal alien amnesty and massive increases in guest workers (who, in reality, will not be guests but permanent residents), 81 percent of Republican voters disagree, as do 57 percent of registered Democrats, 72 percent of independents, and even 53 percent of registered Hispanic voters.

The significance of the Zogby poll is that it refutes numerous “push polls” that have been conducted over the past several months, designed to create the appearance that Americans support “a pathway to citizenship” for millions of illegal aliens. President Bush and other amnesty supporters have actively engaged in an effort to convince the American public that the only options for dealing with the illegal immigration crisis are mass legalization or mass deportation. In an April speech in Orange County, California, President Bush justified amnesty as the only practical solution because, in his words, “we cannot deport 12 million people. It’s just not practical.”

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?page...earch_jun06nl11

You call one poll bogus, but yet you put cite a different poll and call it right.

Personally I think most polls are bogus, it all depends how you ask the question and what options you give for answers. There is also a underrepresentation in polling as well. Pollsters cant call cell phones, only land lines. So those people with no land line will never get called, and it makes up a large percentage of younger people, and well as educated professionals.

regarding your poll, it has a bit too much bias to be taken seriously. It was commissioned by an organization that wants to promote very low by legal immigration. And would likely be against any plan that would make the illegal immigrants, legal.

So the poll preaches to the choir, but doesn't make your case.

4th question ... what should happen to illegal immigrants (notice the term is not illegal aliens which is the proper term) who have been in the US for at least the 2 years?

question #3 was a nice lead into this question. So ... this question doesn't address the clean record ... background check ... the fact these people have already broken the law or that the person will not be a burden on society.

Shouldn't this say ... should the USA have a visa process that is administered fairly to ALL immigrants.

Note ... this question begs another question ...

If the US grants amnesty to illegal aliens, should the US have a visa process?

Amnesty would not be something that would be ongoing. It would only be a one time thing, to grandfather in those already here.

[natty bumppo 297]

Amnesty would not be something that would be ongoing. It would only be a one time thing, to grandfather in those already here.

Well ... sorry ... but haven't we all heard that story before? This amnesty is round # ?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Amnesty would not be something that would be ongoing. It would only be a one time thing, to grandfather in those already here.

That's what they said in 1986.