Canadian Visiting the US - General Questions

[Zerayla 0]

(If this is in the wrong forum, I apologize and hope that it can be moved to the correct forum)

Hello,

I have a couple of questions which I have been struggling to find the answers to, on various government websites. (They don't make things easy). I came across this site and thought I would try asking the questions here. Thank you in advance to anyone that shed any light.

Question#1 - How much time is a Canadian citizen permitted to stay in the US as a visitor, not needing a nonimmigrant visa?

Question#2 - How much time must a Canadian citizen be outside of the US to be permitted re-entry into the US as a visitor?

Are there any other requirements?

Question #3 - Is there anything that can be done to extend the time of stay in the US?

Question #4 - Is it legal for a Canadian to continue their work while visiting in the US, if their income is still being forwarded to their Canadian bank account?

To give a little backround about my situation, I am Canadian and do customer support from home. I have recently been engaged to a US citizen, and our intention is to live in the US. We do plan to go through the visa application process for bringing a fiancée to the US, but we are wanting to hold off on this because we want to save up some money as we understand that it would be required that we be married within 90 days of being approved. But in the meantime, we would like to begin living together.

I currently work for a US based company, as a customer service rep. I do my work from home, and receive my income from the US company - through my Canadian bank. My employer has already said that they would still let me work for them if I moved to the US (and in fact, that would make things a little easier on them for payroll reasons) I have done a lot of research and it seems I can not obtain a working permit through my company because 1) My job is not listed on the NAFTA Appendix and 2)My employer has not "tried" to hire a US person for my position, because they hired me close to 2 years ago as a Canadian worker.

My plan was originally to go to the US and live with my fiancée for up to 6 months and continue working (my income would be sent to my Canadian bank account, which I can access online) while we saved up. I would then go back to Canada before 6 months, and spend a week with my family, and then return to the US. And hopefully by the time I were to go back to the US, myself and my fiancée could begin the "fiancée visa application".

So there's my story. If anyone would be able to answer the questions, or offer some advice I would greatly appreciate that. Also, if anyone has links to government regulations that address the questions I would very much love that because i've been looking through many sites and can't seem to find the specifics. I've also tried calling the US Consulate in Canada and the US Customs and Border control - but was never able to speak to a real person.

Thanks again

[payxibka 10,045]

1) 6 mos.

2) they will want you to spend the majority of your time in your country.... Rule of thumb is something to the effect, 6 mos. in, 6 mos. out, etc.. they may initially allow more time "in" but eventually they will get wise... however no actual entry is ever guaranteed.

3) I do not believe extensions to a "visa free" visits are possible

moving to Canadian regional forum

Edited November 9, 2009 by payxibka

[trailmix 77]

Hi and welcome!

Question#1 - How much time is a Canadian citizen permitted to stay in the US as a visitor, not needing a nonimmigrant visa?

6 months

Question#2 - How much time must a Canadian citizen be outside of the US to be permitted re-entry into the US as a visitor?

Are there any other requirements?

There is no set amount of time, technically you could cross the border back in to Canada and attempt to cross right back in to the U.S. - chances of them letting you back in would be pretty slim

They do not want you taking up 'residence' in the U.S. without the proper visa - they would probably view the above as trying to do this - I would say that type of plan is not workable.

Question #3 - Is there anything that can be done to extend the time of stay in the US?

No

Question #4 - Is it legal for a Canadian to continue their work while visiting in the US, if their income is still being forwarded to their Canadian bank account?

Yes, you will probably have no problem with that.

There are other residency issues to consider as well, besides not being let back in to the U.S. - taxes for one - your provincial health care for another.

Your plan is not really sound if I am reading your post correctly. You basically want to live with your fiancee while saving up and then while processing your visa. Let's say you cross the border tomorrow and live there for six months, working, saving up. Now you decide that you are ready to apply for the K1.

- When you cross back in to the U.S. - they ask you what the purpose of your visit it - how will you answer that?

- If they accept your answer and ask for proof of strong ties to Canada (to ensure you are visiting and not residing in the U.S.) what will you have to show them?

- What about taxes, if you do manage to spend a year or year and a half in the U.S with no visa, what is your tax home?

- Are you willing to give up your provincial health care?

- If you attempt to cross back in to the U.S. too often with no visa and you are questioned, you may incur a ban from entering for a period of time - are you comfortable with taking that chance?

Just some stuff to think about

Edited November 9, 2009 by trailmix

[SapphireDreams 71]

^^ Trailmix gave you some good answers.

While I think your plan in theory sounds okay, there are a lot of potential bumps in the road that you'll need to account for.

Also keep in mind that a K1 fiance visa takes anywhere from 7-10 months to process, so even if you were to wait to apply, you'd still have another huge block of time that you'll need to wait out, and that will put you well over the 6 months.

You might consider applying for the K1 asap, and then moving there and having a civil wedding and planning a larger wedding later on in order to save money. That's what we are doing and it's worked out quite well for us.

[Zerayla 0]

Thank you for the replies.

In response to the last post, I was willing to give up my health care and understood that it would mean serious expenses if something happened. That was one area I was willing to take the risk, hoping I wouldn't have any reason to seek healthcare in the next year.

As for the taxation, I would continue filing as a Canadian. As far as any government would be aware, i'd still be Canadian and just on a really long holiday.

But that's where the concern comes because I realize that being on holidays for 6 months in another country, is something to question. I'm not good at being dishonest, and so i've been trying to get the legalities of what is allowed and what isn't, so that I would still be "within" the regulations of both governments and what they allow.

I also did come across the possibility of not being allowed back into the country (US), and that is definitely something I don't want to risk.

So while it seems I could continue to work "mobile" in the US and receive my income through my Canadian employment, the real problem lies with what luck I would encounter when coming back to Canada for ~1 week, and then trying to re-enter the US. Seems like this would be entirely up to the discretion of the person I deal with when crossing the border again, and could result with me not being allowed back into the country for an extended period of time.

I guess my next question then would be, if my fiancée applies for the K1 Visa, am I permitted to reside in the US? Or do I have to wait for that application to first be approved before?

Again, thank you for the answers and advice.

[trailmix 77]

Yes, you do have a clear understanding.

No, you can't reside in the U.S. - you can however visit.

Although you are looking at this from a different viewpoint - ie: plan A. really won't fly, how about plan B. - they are really both the same plan!

As you said, it is 100% up to the border guard on the day. If you bring strong proof of ties to Canada and you are honest with them - ie: I am going to visit my fiancee - you may not have a problem.

[usmcwife 3]

You don't have to give up your health care. I am from ontario and OHIP allows you to leave the country for up to, I believe, 5 years, and still have coverage once you return to Canada. I was gone for 1.5 years to Japan and the day I came back to Ontario I was covered again. All you have to do is fill out a form before you leave letting them know where you are going and when you'll be back.

Yes, you can visit for up to 6 months within each calender year; and they do mean calendar year. You can be there from july to december, go home for christmas and then go back from january to june. You should not have any problems going back and forth between canada and the states. Before we filed for our k-1 I went back and forth 3 times this year. Be extremely careful answering questions though as each customs official will treat you differently. Once I had no issues saying I was visiting my boyfriend and his family. However, once, while leaving Toronto, I had a ton of questions from one official at 5:30 am about our relationship when we met, how long we'd been together, when i'd seen him last, when I'd spoken to him last and so on. Since then I've just said I'm visiting friends in the states. They basically want to know that you do intend to leave. And if you do get engaged, you can almost guarantee that you will be denied entry unless you have SIGNIFICANT proof that you will be returning. As far as I know they do not let you stay in the country while your paperwork is being processed.

That being said. I was there for about 2.5 months and desperately tried to find a way to work while I was down there and I could not. They are incredibly strict about their visa and immigration rules. As we all know. You mentioned you would be working online for a Canadian company being paid to a Canadian acct. I do remember seeing on and official site that this was still considered working in the US and does require a US visa. Since you will technically be working while in the us and will more than likely be drawing on that acct while there. I will try to find that site but it was a while ago. Also, like many things in the immigration world, it's the rules you don't or can't find that mess you up if you get caught. I decided it would be too risky to work without proper authorization. Also you can expect them to ask you at the border how you will pay for your vacation. I was going down for the summer and I was asked how i would support myself and if i would be working.

We decided that the best thing for us was to file the paperwork sooner rather than later and get into the US legally and permanently. Better to do it now then to wait and possibly do something that will look bad on an application later. It sucks to be separated from our partners, but it's just temporary. The sooner you file the sooner you can move down legally.

I hope this helps.

[trailmix 77]

Hi usmc and welcome!

Actually no, it is not 6 months in a calendar year.

I don't think anyone meant that he would have to give up his Canadian health care and he can never have it back! Just that he may forfeit it while out of the country - if he stays outside too long, of course he can have it back once he returns

[Sam and Ben 2]

Also, although the fees for the K1 visa are hefty, they aren't all at once (the government's nickle and diming both a blessing and a curse at times).

• $455 to send off the petition
• ~$275 for the medical (+ any needed vaccines... which is a time you might hurt without OHIP)
• $131 at the interview, for the visa itself

Those are just to start. However, you'd only have to worry about the initial filing fee within the first 7 months or so.

Once married, however, during your period of adjustment of status, you would have to wait until you are authorized for work in the U.S. to be able to work. With timelines as they are right now, that is probably a period of about 60-90 days.

As far as visiting in the interim, if you are honest with the border patrol (which you always, 100% should be), they should not allow you to re-enter the U.S. with only a 1 week stay in Canada following a 6 month "vacation". It isn't limited to calendar days. They want to see that you're a resident of Canada. Spending a week "home" doesn't show much proof of that.

[usmcwife 3]

Hi usmc and welcome!

Actually no, it is not 6 months in a calendar year.

I don't think anyone meant that he would have to give up his Canadian health care and he can never have it back! Just that he may forfeit it while out of the country - if he stays outside too long, of course he can have it back once he returns

Sorry, it may not be within calendar year. Doesn't it seem like every website and every person you speak to has a different answer to these types of questions. I would swear I saw that written somewhere.

I did call the consulate in toronto, which was a long and expensive conversation, and tried to find a working visa category I would fit into with no luck. I would suggest trying to call and find out if your situation would be considered 'working in the us'. As I think that is the most important aspect of your situation.

Of course you can have your health care back after leaving the country. However, if you leave for 6 months (they have a certain number of days that i can't recall) you have to wait 3 months upon returning to be covered again. Unless you fill out that form. If you fill out the form you are covered immdiately once you return. That, and cpp coverage, is why most snowbirds only stay in the us for 6months or shorter.

I purchased travel insurance, which I highly recommend in case of emergency, and they require that form to be filed in order to be covered for over that 6 months.

Come to think of it, I might have gotten the OHIP 6 month requirements and US travel 6 month requirements backwards in reference to teh whole 6 month / calendar year thing. Because if it was required for the US they would keep better track of people crossing the border. Last time I drove down the guard barely even looked at my passport.

Anyway, once again, sorry if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that there are no really clear answers on any us government websites. Definitely spent many frustrating days trying to navigate through them.

[Krikit 1,164]

Once you hit 183 days out of the country, Canada automatically deems you a non-resident and your health coverage is no longer valid. CPP payments will continue:

"If you live outside Canada and are not considered a Canadian resident for income tax purposes, a non-resident tax is withheld from your monthly CPP payment. The tax rate is 25 percent unless it is reduced or exempted by a tax treaty between Canada and your country of residence. If your income is low, you can apply for a reduction in the withholding rate." Link

Canada and the US have a tax treaty.

During a visit to the US, many of us have telecommuted with our Canadian employers. We have not taken a US job from a US employer, which is where people get confused.

CBP FAQ - Length of Stay

From the Documents Required by Canadians and How Long Can They Stay FAQ:

"There is no set period of time Canadians must wait to re-enter the U.S. after the end of their stay, but if it appears to the CBP officer that the person applying for entry is spending more time over-all in the U.S. than in Canada, it will be up to the traveler to prove to the officer that they are not de-facto U.S. residents."

[neiks 19]

Just putting my two cents in from a border officer prespective. It doesn't matter if you are calling it an "extended visit". Your intention seems that you are planning of living in the US. Generally when officer are making the decision on allowing your entry they are going to take into consideration where you are spending the majority of your time. In your case your intention seems to be that you want to spend the majority of your time in the US. Giving up your medical is another indication that you intent to reside in the US. Do you still have a physical residence in Canada? What other ties? Your job isn't really a substantial tie that indicates that you will be returning to Canada as you said it can be done via telecommunicating.

Perhaps you may slip through some techincal cracks with the 6 month rule with some officers if they aren't asking the additional questions. Personally, if you showed up with your info that you had been in the US for 6 months returned home for a week and then plan on returning to the US for another 6 months, I would indeed think your intention is to live there and probably would be denied as you seem like you have no plans on returning to reside in Canada. Call it an "extended vacation" if you want but a "duck is a duck" as far as I would determine.