Triple Ties/Citizenships...

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

I know it's a bit too early to be asking about citizenship now, but I was still wondering about the following questions, as it pertains to my situation:

1) Is a person's "Country of Birth" listed on their US Citizenship Certificate, like it is on a Green Card or is it just "The Country of Former Citizenship" that is listed (believe me, I would much rather have my country of former citizenship listed, as I have no ties at all now to my country of birth)

2) Can having a different "country of birth" and a different "former country of citizenship" affect being a US Citizen? In other words, would the possibility of having triple country ties (being born in another birth country, being Naturalized in Canada, and eventually being a Citizen in the US) affect me being a US Citizen when I apply for it later on?

Any comments, suggestions, and ideas appreciated. Thanks.

Ant

Edited May 13, 2008 by AntandD

[lucyrich 20]

I believe the naturalization certificate has a line for "country of former nationality".

A US Passport has listed the "place of birth".

There are all sorts of possibilities of multiple citizenships. Your eligibility for US Citizenship is spelled out in the M-476 guide to naturalization. There are no requirements regarding what previous nationalities/citizenships you may have held, or how many you may have held.

[antda 13]

Hi Lucyrich,

Thanks for your reply about the naturalization certificate. It’s good to know that the naturalization certificate does contain a line for “country of former nationality”, so that will definitely help in my situation. As for getting a US passport, it’s too bad that it doesn’t list the “country of former nationality” on that, so depending on how much I travel, I’ll decide if I get one of those later on or not.

You mentioned about a “M-476 Guide to Naturalization” in your reply. What exactly is that? Do I get one of those when I apply for US Citizenship? It’s good to know also that there are no requirements about previous nationalities/citizenships and that it doesn’t matter what one’s previous country affiliations were. I remember too from what I’ve read that I can keep both the Canadian and American Citizenships, so I guess I’ll be a dual citizen of both of these countries later on.

Ant

I believe the naturalization certificate has a line for "country of former nationality".

A US Passport has listed the "place of birth".

There are all sorts of possibilities of multiple citizenships. Your eligibility for US Citizenship is spelled out in the M-476 guide to naturalization. There are no requirements regarding what previous nationalities/citizenships you may have held, or how many you may have held.

[NickD 202]

Should have these links posted on the heading.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/M-618.pdf

www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf

Are two good manuals to read, I did try to get bounded books at my last visit to our local field office, was told I can download them, the M-618 is about 120 pages long, the M-476 about 70 pages long, that is lot of printing of loose sheets and can get expensive if printed in color.

Ha, I like to flop down with my feet up when I have a lot of reading to do, and willing to pay for these books, if I can find somebody that sells them. Should check at my local library.

[antda 13]

Hi NickD,

Thanks for your reply and for the link of the two immigration guides. I did have a look at them and have bookmarked them on my computer. Yes, both of them are long, but are worth the read, as they are good basic guides to the immigration process.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get your reading done in time and will be ready for naturalization. It's a good start that you are eager to search and find information about that now. The library is an excellent place to search for information about naturalization. As well, you can check out information online, find bookstores that sell citizenship books, and check to see if there are any citizenship classes in your area that are offered too. Good luck, and happy citizenship reading!

Ant

Should have these links posted on the heading.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/M-618.pdf

www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf

Are two good manuals to read, I did try to get bounded books at my last visit to our local field office, was told I can download them, the M-618 is about 120 pages long, the M-476 about 70 pages long, that is lot of printing of loose sheets and can get expensive if printed in color.

Ha, I like to flop down with my feet up when I have a lot of reading to do, and willing to pay for these books, if I can find somebody that sells them. Should check at my local library.

[NickD 202]

I must be slow, according to the N-400 instructions:

"The public reporting burden for this collection of information is estimated at 6 hour and 8 minutes per response, including the time for reviewing instructions, completing, and submitting the form."

First it took time to find the M-476 manual, then more time to read the entire book, then to take out sections that only applied to us, in particular the eligibility and proof sections. Using Adobe Arcobat ver.8 was able to extract the proof section to make a list of exactly what proof we needed and print that out in Word. Then to dig our all this information, make two copies in case they lost one, and put it in the same order as the list.

Most of the biographic, employment, and address information was already correct on my I-130, wife's I-485, and our G-325A's, that kept everything identical, but had to debate our to put long employee names and addresses on the much smaller blanks. Just did a continuation of above as she only had one employer and address in the last five year period. Acrobat 8 would not let me change the font size, one point lower and it would have fit. Digging up information on our trips was also time consuming since she became a permanent resident. And had questions about me whether they were talking about previous or total marriages, could read that both ways, my attorney said to use total marriages, list out all of her charity work, had to dig that up, and the number of days from five years at the date of the application she was out of the USA. That also added time.

I debated whether to say she filled out the form or I did, but since they seem strong about us still living together, I elected to put my name in there as her husband. Ha, that way if there was any mistake, we would both go to jail. Also got a chance to sign the form.

The final step was typing in N/A like they said to do on seemingly a zillion blanks, and what I call formmanship, printing out the form on a 600 dpi laser printer and making minor adjustments so everything looks neat and professional.

Didn't keep track of my time, but this was done off and on for over a four week period, with extra time on the net to get more ideas. I also extracted the civics and English test for my wife to study with that newest test. Part of her job is waiting, this is on her notebook she has to carry, so gives her something to do while waiting. It's a four hour drive to our local field office, that is an excellent time for a review. Wife does get nervous while being tested and have to clam her down. Doesn't help either walking into a field office loaded with armed guards, but I like to tease with them to help her relax. Ha, make sure you leave your cell phone in the car is my last statement before walking in. Since she is always on call, that cell phone is a part of her, and is kind of a dangerous weapon, I think.

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

I know this was an old VJ thread....(but I found it again, after posting about it somewhere else on VJ...)

Yes, one can have dual and even triple citizenship, if they so desire....

Likewise, I am one of those individuals...

I have American citizenship through naturalization (which I got last year)

I have Canadian citizenship through naturaliztaion (which I got a a child/minor)

I have sort-of (I'm still trying to figure the legalities behind this one) citizenship through by other birth country (which I got when I was born there)

So yes...It gets confusing at times...lol....

But it does having multiple citizenships, there are disadvantages and advantages to such...

As far as Canada goes, they do officially recognize dual citizenship, so you would have no problems there...

As for as America goes, when one says the oath, one technically renounce all loyalities to other countries....However it's more of a formality than a legality, as one cannot lose American citizenship just because they have citizenship of another country....

As for any other country goes, one would have to look up the specific rules for that. Some countries allow it..some don't...

In my travel experiences (betweeen Canada/USA by land)....

Before US Citizenship I travelled with: US Green Card (with other Birth Country listed on it), Canadian passport...lol..(three countries of association..uggh..)

After US Citizenship I travel with: NYS Enahanced Driver's License, Canadian passport

In America...You are "American" once you have US Citizenship...Travel with US-Only documents to come back into America....

In Canada...You are "Canadian"....Travel with Canadian and/or any other docuements...

And I swear, I always get a confused look from the border guards.....

Here is a helpful link, if you want to know more about dual/triple citizenship: http://www.richw.org/dualcit/faq.html

As for my situation specific is concerned...This gets tricky document-wise too....

My 2yr and 10 yr green card had by "other birth country" on it...(which I hated....)

My marriage certificate has my "Canadian address" on it...and "other birth country" on it...(yes, this is an error...weird...not sure how to correct it..)

My US citizenship/naturalization certificate had "Canada" as "former country of citizenship" on it...(I insisted they do such...As I'm Canadian citizen...)

My Canadian passport has a "blank" on it for "place of birth"....(I insisted they do such..And yes, it's legal for Canada...)

My American passport...I haven't applied for such yet....still have some issues regarding that....(for example, the birth country issue..see my post on the VJ N-400 boards about this...)

And for my intereviews and/or other dealings...I explained my situation throughly...It gets really confusing....

But nevertheless, I eventually get it sorted out..lol..It does make for interesting stories to tell though....

As for American passport...I haven't applied for such yet....still have some issues regarding that....

(for example, the birth country issue..see my post on the VJ N-400 boards about this...)

Hope this helps. Good luck on your multiple citizenship journey too!

Ant

Edited February 24, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[antda 13]

P.P.S. As for collecting documents like baseball cards.......Here is "Ant's lifetime of immigration/travel paperwork collection" so far...

-1 'other country' birth certificate

-1/2 'other country' passport (this passport was in my mother's name....but I was added as a notation...hence 1/2 passport)

-1 Canadian citizenship card

-1 Canadian commerative citizenship certificate

-2 Canadian passports (1 expired in maiden name, 1 valid in married name)

-2 US green cards (2yr, 10yr...Unfortunately I couldn't keep those...the immigration officials wanted those back..)

-1 US naturalization certificate

-1 US NYS enhanced driver's license

-Am still thinking about adding a US passport book and/or card (and maybe a nexus card) to my collection..we'll see...

Lol....Do I have enough immigration/travel documents to far???

It costs a fortune and a lot of time to replace....lol....I don't even know where to begin to get replacements.....

Seriously..I need to collect other things..besides immigration/travel documents...lol....

Ant

[Dakine10 5,452]

As far as Canada goes, they do officially recognize dual citizenship, so you would have no problems there...

As for as America goes, when one says the oath, one technically renounce all loyalities to other countries....However it's more of a formality than a legality, as one cannot lose American citizenship just because they have citizenship of another country....

As for any other country goes, one would have to look up the specific rules for that. Some countries allow it..some don't...

Ant

If the first country of citizenship recognizes verbal renounciation of citizenship then you can lose the first citizenship when taking the verbal oath for US citizenship. Canadian citizenship (and many other countries) can only be renounced in writing.

I wouldn't say it's a formality. When you take the oath, the US recognizes you now as a US citizen. How your former country (or countries) recognize you depends on their laws, not on US laws. Many countries do recognize verbal renounciation so one does have to take this into consideration.

[Dana-Mića 51]

Ant I think you are allowed only duel citizenship so unless you didn't denounce your birth country you shouldn't have a problem. I my self was born in Croatia yet consider my self Serbian and am hoping the US Govt. or should I say the citizenship people will let me put nationality as Serbian or Yugoslavian.

[NickD 202]

First I thought that question about did you ever commit a crime you weren't caught at was ridiculous until I read, if you answered NO and were caught, you lied on your application so the USCIS can deport you.

And in like manner if you carefully analyze the oath you signed and found to be allegiant to another country, certainly could be grounds for deportation as well.

I do not feel the use of the words dual, triple, or whatever number of previous countries one is from is appropriate, as this definitely conflicts with the oath you had taken. In our case, like yours, and because your country of origin in on your passport, and with the laws of that country, as a USC, you are forced to comply with those laws and have a passport of that country just to visit.

I can see where if the USCIS learns you are maintaining a foreign passport, they could go into a federal court of law and claim you defied the oath you have taken. They have the original copy of your N-400 with your signature on it right under the oath. But in reality, they have given you no choice if you want to visit your old dying mother one last time.

My experiences into going into any federal court with claims of any government agency against you, the judge regardless of the facts will always side with that agency. We are dead before we even start, this isn't right!

[daffydill 0]

Already a British and Canadian citizen, Kim Cattrall became a U.S. citizen in 2008.[18]

(source Wikipedia -- internet)

Thought you might find this interesting --- (she was born in UK and emigrated to Canada as a small child -- rest is obvious)

cheers

[milimelo 4,477]

My former boss's wife - American (born there), also has French, Swiss and UK citizenship. Her husband - UK (by birth) citizen who has French, Swiss and South African citizenship. Not sure what/how many citizenships their children have - I know they were born in France.