The K-1 and HCMC

[wait4ever 0]

Recently I had a conversation with an immigration advocate, someone who counsels and assists people with a variety of immigrant and non-immigrant visas. This person has processed many visas through the HCMC Consulate and thus is very familiar with what is going on there. In representing clients, the advocate deals with the same frustrations that many of us do. The Consulate does not always answer the advocate's letters either.

We talked about what is happening lately with the new financial requirements that HCMC seems to be laying down and how the issue of co-sponsorship factors into a K-1 visa case. The advocate also has some interesting insight into the survivability of these foreign relationships. I will share with you here some of what the advocate said.

Currently there are many beneficiaries being delayed in their K-1 visa applications due to problems with the petitioner not earning "sufficient" income. What this amount is, is not exactly known. The advocate guesses the minimum might be around $18-20K per year. Because the K-1 is not an immigrant visa, the Consulate is not required to use the standards of 125% of poverty level and other methods that are allowed for an immigrant visa. The Consulate may press into service their own standards for what constitutes sufficient income. This seems to clearly be the case now.

Also at their discretion is whether or not to allow the use of a co-sponsor. Lately it seems that the Consulate is looking for every reason it can to delay/deny K-1 visa applications. Many of those with co-sponsors are seeing their cases delayed until they can show sufficient income from their own professions. HCMC seems to be turning a blind eye to most co-sponsors in K-1 cases. The advocate gave two examples of recent cases and how they were adjudicated at the HCMC Consulate.

An engineering student in his last year of study had no income and was declared as a dependent on his parent's taxes. His parents earned over $100K annually and were co-sponsors in his fiancee's application. As an engineering student he had a bright future ahead of him, or so the Consulate assumed. His fiancee's K-1 visa was approved.

A young man who was a gas station attendant was making about $14K annually. He had visited his fiancee in Vietnam six times. His parents were co-sponsors and had an annual income of over $120K. The Consulate refused to issue a K-1 visa based on his insufficient income and would not take into consideration the co-sponsorship of his parents, who clearly had more than sufficient income.

Based on the two examples given, it appears that the Consulate is discriminating between those who might make sufficient income (like a student) and a working adult who currently does not. Where co-sponsorship is concerned, the Consulate seems to be turning a blind eye to working adult petitioners. This would also answer why the Consulate has not published this policy on it's website. How they wish to view/allow the co-sponsor is still dependent on the specifics of each case.

Given the recent tightening of K-1 visas issue due to income requirements, the advocate will no longer prepare K-1 visa applications for clients earning less than $24K per year. This is the threshold where the advocate feels that income is at a sufficiently safe level to clear any hurdles related to income.

Another topic covered was that of significant delays for some K-1 visa cases for which there appears to be no legitimate reasons. Some couples they just don't want to give visas to and despite jumping through all the paperwork hoops, the Consulate always has a new technicality to hang them up on. The reasons given can be quite strange, or just extra picky where they would not be applied to the cases of others. These cases are in effect held hostage at the Consulate. Lacking the evidence sufficient to stand up to a denial were the case returned to the US service center, the HCMC Consulate resorts to hanging up the case on technicalities, stringing it along until the couple breaks up and withdraws the application, or fails to submit the new information requested. This dirty trick is perfectly legal. An example given was that a couple would be strung along with a series of blue/green slips. After submitting all the information requested in a sufficient manner, the Consular officers ended it in this way: "Your I-129F (I797) is expired". Whereas they extended the I-129F while they were stringing the case along, their final tactic was to declare the petition expired. This too is also at their discretion.

If that's not disturbing enough, the advocate had some dismal things to say about the success of marriages between US citizen petitioners and their immigrant SOs. It is believed that this is part of the reason why HCMC is tightening up on K-1 visas issued.

The advocate's own estimate of failed marriages within or about one year was 80%. The advocate felt that only about 5% of these marriages really last long-term.

Often the immigrant SO is the one to leave and here is a common scenario for how it all unravels: After a year of marriage the immigrant SO starts staying out late at the bars or partying on the town (while the US citizen is at home). When the immigrant SO returns home, an argument ensues. The idea is that the US citizen strikes the immigrant SO, although it does not always happen. The SO starts crying and then walks out into street and sits on the curb, sobbing. The neighbors come out and ask what has happened. The SO alleges tht the US citizen has struck her. The neighbor calls the police, they show up, a report of physical abuse is filed and then it all goes down hill from there. An immigrant SO who can prove they have been physically abused can appeal to stay in the US. There are many other ways for an immigrant to gain legal status after divorcing a US citizen petitioner, even if it falls outside of the AOS rules.

[Matt_Stevens 5]

Life is grand

I made $0.00 last year. Officially. Unofficially I made some cash, but it was all under the table. I cannot report it. This year I have been completing a screenplay and should get paid for it, but likely not until AFTER the interview.

So when I return from Vietnam May 28 I am immediately going job hunting. The question is, if I am working say, 45 to 60 days full time when my fiancee has her interview and making over 25K, plus I have a co-sponsor, will we be approved?

Maybe only God knows the answer to that question.

Edited April 9, 2006 by Matt_Stevens

[scy 0]

Often the immigrant SO is the one to leave and here is a common scenario for how it all unravels: After a year of marriage the immigrant SO starts staying out late at the bars or partying on the town (while the US citizen is at home). When the immigrant SO returns home, an argument ensues. The idea is that the US citizen strikes the immigrant SO, although it does not always happen. The SO starts crying and then walks out into street and sits on the curb, sobbing. The neighbors come out and ask what has happened. The SO alleges tht the US citizen has struck her. The neighbor calls the police, they show up, a report of physical abuse is filed and then it all goes down hill from there. An immigrant SO who can prove they have been physically abused can appeal to stay in the US. There are many other ways for an immigrant to gain legal status after divorcing a US citizen petitioner, even if it falls outside of the AOS rules.

Interesting read. This article is right on target. My wife's visa was approved when I had a joint sponsor. My sponsor does not have the high income similar to those mentioned in the article. I think that my wife's visa was approved because I was able to show that I am a full time college student with a history of high income and that when I finish school, I will be able to fully support my wife. Like the article said, if you are a working adult and not making above poverty lines, you'd be hard pressed to convince the consular officer that you will be able to support your spouse in the future.

Secondly, the there is never an excuse for anyone to strike their spouse in anger. Eventhough the spouse might have comitted adultery, fraud, personal indiscretions, etc... Anyone who do so deserves to be brought up on charges of spousal abuse.

[Bruce and Han 0]

Another topic covered was that of significant delays for some K-1 visa cases for which there appears to be no legitimate reasons. Some couples they just don't want to give visas to and despite jumping through all the paperwork hoops, the Consulate always has a new technicality to hang them up on. The reasons given can be quite strange, or just extra picky where they would not be applied to the cases of others. These cases are in effect held hostage at the Consulate. Lacking the evidence sufficient to stand up to a denial were the case returned to the US service center, the HCMC Consulate resorts to hanging up the case on technicalities, stringing it along until the couple breaks up and withdraws the application, or fails to submit the new information requested. This dirty trick is perfectly legal. An example given was that a couple would be strung along with a series of blue/green slips. After submitting all the information requested in a sufficient manner, the Consular officers ended it in this way: "Your I-129F (I797) is expired". Whereas they extended the I-129F while they were stringing the case along, their final tactic was to declare the petition expired. This too is also at their discretion.

This worries me the most, The "no reason theory", I would think that if you have some red flags go up with your case then this senerio could activate their delay visa play book. I remember in Highschool in American history, I read that immigrants going through Ellis Island were fearfull to look into the eyes of the immigration officers. If the officer didnt like the way you looked they would at their own descretion not let you enter the country and put you back on the boat. Makes me wonder if this still is happening today.

[dalegg 143]

The advocate's own estimate of failed marriages within or about one year was 80%. The advocate felt that only about 5% of these marriages really last long-term.

Well, awesome. So far we've beaten 80% out.

Often the immigrant SO is the one to leave and here is a common scenario for how it all unravels: After a year of marriage the immigrant SO starts staying out late at the bars or partying on the town (while the US citizen is at home). ....

I don't mean to stereotype here, but is this guy actually talking about Vietnamese women? The idea of my wife staying out late at a bar is just so incredible I cannot even imagine it. I know a few of her friends from both Vietnam and the U.S. and again, I just cannot picture it, and something like this happens in about 95% of the cases?

[Bruce and Han 0]

Thats a good point, I can not fathom the idea of my wife in a bar.

[Mike n Huong 1]

I totally agree with the above, my fiancee doesn't even drink. And as far as going to the bar or disco club, her family would either not allow her, or they would look greatly down on her, because her family is very traditional.

I am very thankful for finding this site, and all the help that everyone on here gives, but when I read posts like this, it really plays a mind game on me. Our relationship is as true as it gets, but with all the negative things that I read, it makes me feel like there is such a slim chance of any of us passing the interview. Then the thoughts cross my mind, what if? I don't even want to think about it, but the thought of her not passing the interview would just totally crush me and her. It should not be this way. We have discussed me coming there to live if they give her a hard time at the interview. We are just going to be as prepared as we can.

[Matt_Stevens 5]

Well, my fiancee loves to drink. With me. She drinks in Saigon with her friends, but normally has one or maybe two at the most. When we were in Germany she asked me if she could have a 3rd drink because she had never had that many. I let her do it and it was absolutely hysterical. But no more. After that is was a 2 drink limit.

By the way, a friend of mine was born in Vietnam and came here as a teen. He's a fashion photographer and knows a lot of Vietnamese women who have come here and he can tell you that the idea of Vietnamese women going to clubs and drinking is not crazy. In fact, it's quite common. Many do come here and live it up because now they can. He personaly knows many women who came her through sham marriages.

This is why the HCMC Consulate is run by a bunch of goons. The fraud is rampant.

[Bruce and Han 0]

Well, my fiancee loves to drink. With me. She drinks in Saigon with her friends, but normally has one or maybe two at the most. When we were in Germany she asked me if she could have a 3rd drink because she had never had that many. I let her do it and it was absolutely hysterical. But no more. After that is was a 2 drink limit.

By the way, a friend of mine was born in Vietnam and came here as a teen. He's a fashion photographer and knows a lot of Vietnamese women who have come here and he can tell you that the idea of Vietnamese women going to clubs and drinking is not crazy. In fact, it's quite common. Many do come here and live it up because now they can. He personaly knows many women who came her through sham marriages.

This is why the HCMC Consulate is run by a bunch of goons. The fraud is rampant.

WOW, You sure do have control over your fiancee, Oh and, The consulate is run by a bunch of goons? Really? Do you really think it is because of friends like yours and the sham marriages?

Well, my fiancee loves to drink. With me. She drinks in Saigon with her friends, but normally has one or maybe two at the most. When we were in Germany she asked me if she could have a 3rd drink because she had never had that many. I let her do it and it was absolutely hysterical. But no more. After that is was a 2 drink limit.

By the way, a friend of mine was born in Vietnam and came here as a teen. He's a fashion photographer and knows a lot of Vietnamese women who have come here and he can tell you that the idea of Vietnamese women going to clubs and drinking is not crazy. In fact, it's quite common. Many do come here and live it up because now they can. He personaly knows many women who came her through sham marriages.

This is why the HCMC Consulate is run by a bunch of goons. The fraud is rampant.

HHmm, I wonder if they would still be considered goons if they were to give you your visa on the first time around?

[Vietnam 0]

Alright people! Group hug.

[patricks 0]

Regarding HCMC Consulate Officers as I understand it from the people I met while living, networking and successfully going through the stressful process in HCMC.

The native English Speaking American C.O.s come from the TOP Universities, they've gone through a difficult interviewing process to attain their job and then they must bid for the HCMC assignment among the State Dept. offerings ( they could be sent to "Ten Buck Two" ? ) Finally, they must pass a rigorous 1 year Vietnamese language immersion course taught in Arlington, VA. Plus I've met local VNs nationals who worked at the HCMC Consulate and it's like working for "Blue Chip" company in America, it's a lifetime job that has high status in Vietnamese society. The facts as I understand them.......................

[wait4ever 0]

The advocate's own estimate of failed marriages within or about one year was 80%. The advocate felt that only about 5% of these marriages really last long-term.

Well, awesome. So far we've beaten 80% out.

Often the immigrant SO is the one to leave and here is a common scenario for how it all unravels: After a year of marriage the immigrant SO starts staying out late at the bars or partying on the town (while the US citizen is at home). ....

I don't mean to stereotype here, but is this guy actually talking about Vietnamese women? The idea of my wife staying out late at a bar is just so incredible I cannot even imagine it. I know a few of her friends from both Vietnam and the U.S. and again, I just cannot picture it, and something like this happens in about 95% of the cases?

The advocate did not specifically indicate that this figure was for Vietnamese spouses. I got the feeling that this figure included immigrant spouses from all nations that came in under K-1 and K-3 visas. There was a definate indication that the HCMC Consulate was siezing upon this statistic in forming it's more restrictive visa policy for k-1 visas. As to whether the figure quoted to me was truly the advocate's own, or the state dept.'s, or a mix of the two I am not certain.

[dalegg 143]

The advocate did not specifically indicate that this figure was for Vietnamese spouses. I got the feeling that this figure included immigrant spouses from all nations that came in under K-1 and K-3 visas.

Ahh. This makes more sense. It seems like I've read a few posts here on VJ about some Romanian women (not to pick on them) with alcoholism problems who were even abusive to their husbands. That would suck if HCMC was using information about the bad habits of women from other continents to pass judgement on their own cases.

[Matt_Stevens 5]

WOW, You sure do have control over your fiancee, Oh and, The consulate is run by a bunch of goons? Really? Do you really think it is because of friends like yours and the sham marriages?

Whoa there. Wait a minute. What's with that hostile response? I don't have "control" over my fiancee. If anything, she has control over me! For some reason she seems to want me to stop her from having a third drink. Something to do with her wondering if I would allow to get drunk and be a "bad girl" or something like that. Her respect for me grew after I said I didn't want her to have more than two drinks.

Also, none of my friends had sham marriages. My friend from Vietnam who lives in NYC has friends or knows people with sham marriages. Understand the difference?

And if we get approved first time at bat, yes, I will still think there are a lot of goons there. A number of people who very clearly love each other are being denied for no good reason using standards not in use at any other consulate. That's just not right.

I'm not sure why you, after being so friendly, have suddenly turned on me. I just stated my opinion based upon my observations.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Matt_Stevens

[Bruce and Han 0]

WOW, You sure do have control over your fiancee, Oh and, The consulate is run by a bunch of goons? Really? Do you really think it is because of friends like yours and the sham marriages?

Whoa there. Wait a minute. What's with that hostile response? I don't have "control" over my fiancee. If anything, she has control over me! For some reason she seems to want me to stop her from having a third drink. Something to do with her wondering if I would allow to get drunk and be a "bad girl" or something like that. Her respect for me grew after I said I didn't want her to have more than two drinks.

Also, none of my friends had sham marriages. My friend from Vietnam who lives in NYC has friends or knows people with sham marriages. Understand the difference?

And if we get approved first time at bat, yes, I will still think there are a lot of goons there. A number of people who very clearly love each other are being denied for no good reason using standards not in use at any other consulate. That's just not right.

I'm not sure why you, after being so friendly, have suddenly turned on me. I just stated my opinion based upon my observations.

Right you are, please accept my apology, It was not my intension to turn on you. I work with Algorithms and data structures at my job everyday and on this particular day my brain was fried by the time I got to reading your post. I mis judged your opinion. Now, with that said, If there are any question you have I will be happy to help. VJ would not be the same without you here!