Woman Arrested in Connection With 'Green Card Marriage' Craigslist Ad

[Fandango 1,439]

but it's on par (imo) with a well off older man marrying a young, gorgeous woman from an impoverished nation. They may not love each other, but they both mutually benefit from the marriage.

The stereotype couple you described are NOT committing marriage fraud as they intend to stay married. ...and who is to quanitify whether any couple here 'loves' each other beyond the evidence to support a bonafide marriage to immigration?

I'm not quantifying whether people 'love' each other or not...since love is not a prereq to a 'bonafide' marriage in the eyes of USCIS, it's superfluous to this conversation. I wasn't implying that so and so doesn't love each other.....I'm just saying that with an IMB, surely the non-foreign SO looking for 'an American' is doing so at least partially for immi benefit.

This particular story was blatant, and yes, morally wrong as there's money being exchanged. But at the same time, all I'm saying is I see some shades of grey.

But why does an inability to communicate in the same language preclude natural attraction and attactment developing between two people? The universal language is spoken worldwide!

I never said an inability to comm in a common lang precludes attraction.

[Alex+R 0]

but it's on par (imo) with a well off older man marrying a young, gorgeous woman from an impoverished nation. They may not love each other, but they both mutually benefit from the marriage.

The stereotype couple you described are NOT committing marriage fraud as they intend to stay married. ...and who is to quanitify whether any couple here 'loves' each other beyond the evidence to support a bonafide marriage to immigration?

I'm not quantifying whether people 'love' each other or not...since love is not a prereq to a 'bonafide' marriage in the eyes of USCIS, it's superfluous to this conversation. I wasn't implying that so and so doesn't love each other.....I'm just saying that with an IMB, surely the non-foreign SO looking for 'an American' is doing so at least partially for immi benefit.

This particular story was blatant, and yes, morally wrong as there's money being exchanged. But at the same time, all I'm saying is I see some shades of grey.

I actually agree with Lisa. If you meet your spouse because they signed up for some program for meeting Americans who come to your country looking for wives, then you are marrying for an immigration benefit, even if you later fall in love. I also don't think you can assume those people intend to stay married. One partner might not. I don't see a difference.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

but it's on par (imo) with a well off older man marrying a young, gorgeous woman from an impoverished nation. They may not love each other, but they both mutually benefit from the marriage.

The stereotype couple you described are NOT committing marriage fraud as they intend to stay married. ...and who is to quanitify whether any couple here 'loves' each other beyond the evidence to support a bonafide marriage to immigration?

I'm not quantifying whether people 'love' each other or not...since love is not a prereq to a 'bonafide' marriage in the eyes of USCIS, it's superfluous to this conversation. I wasn't implying that so and so doesn't love each other.....I'm just saying that with an IMB, surely the non-foreign SO looking for 'an American' is doing so at least partially for immi benefit.

This particular story was blatant, and yes, morally wrong as there's money being exchanged. But at the same time, all I'm saying is I see some shades of grey.

I actually agree with Lisa. If you meet your spouse because they signed up for some program for meeting Americans who come to your country looking for wives, then you are marrying for an immigration benefit, even if you later fall in love. I also don't think you can assume those people intend to stay married. One partner might not. I don't see a difference.

I think that's one of the reasons with IMBRA was passed. Unless USCIS wants to outright prohibit granting Visas to anyone who uses marriage brokers (I think that's what they call them), such unions are as legitimate as any marriage.

We've had these discussions before - the motivations behind marrying a USC, but I don't think it's fair to make blanket judgments about the immigration intentions of foreigners who seek out marrying a USC.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I wanted a wife I could suppress, who wouldn't give me any of that equal rights guff.

Was that wrong?

[Alex+R 0]

but it's on par (imo) with a well off older man marrying a young, gorgeous woman from an impoverished nation. They may not love each other, but they both mutually benefit from the marriage.

The stereotype couple you described are NOT committing marriage fraud as they intend to stay married. ...and who is to quanitify whether any couple here 'loves' each other beyond the evidence to support a bonafide marriage to immigration?

I'm not quantifying whether people 'love' each other or not...since love is not a prereq to a 'bonafide' marriage in the eyes of USCIS, it's superfluous to this conversation. I wasn't implying that so and so doesn't love each other.....I'm just saying that with an IMB, surely the non-foreign SO looking for 'an American' is doing so at least partially for immi benefit.

This particular story was blatant, and yes, morally wrong as there's money being exchanged. But at the same time, all I'm saying is I see some shades of grey.

I actually agree with Lisa. If you meet your spouse because they signed up for some program for meeting Americans who come to your country looking for wives, then you are marrying for an immigration benefit, even if you later fall in love. I also don't think you can assume those people intend to stay married. One partner might not. I don't see a difference.

I think that's one of the reasons with IMBRA was passed. Unless USCIS wants to outright prohibit granting Visas to anyone who uses marriage brokers (I think that's what they call them), such unions are as legitimate as any marriage.

We've had these discussions before - the motivations behind marrying a USC, but I don't think it's fair to make blanket judgments about the immigration intentions of foreigners who seek out marrying a USC.

What is their motivation if not to eventually move to the U.S.? Or at least get gifts from the U.S.? Why else would they single out a particular nationality or set of nationalities?

[Jasman0717 9]

Stay away from Criaig list people....

[Fandango 1,439]

but it's on par (imo) with a well off older man marrying a young, gorgeous woman from an impoverished nation. They may not love each other, but they both mutually benefit from the marriage.

The stereotype couple you described are NOT committing marriage fraud as they intend to stay married. ...and who is to quanitify whether any couple here 'loves' each other beyond the evidence to support a bonafide marriage to immigration?

I'm not quantifying whether people 'love' each other or not...since love is not a prereq to a 'bonafide' marriage in the eyes of USCIS, it's superfluous to this conversation. I wasn't implying that so and so doesn't love each other.....I'm just saying that with an IMB, surely the non-foreign SO looking for 'an American' is doing so at least partially for immi benefit.

This particular story was blatant, and yes, morally wrong as there's money being exchanged. But at the same time, all I'm saying is I see some shades of grey.

I actually agree with Lisa. If you meet your spouse because they signed up for some program for meeting Americans who come to your country looking for wives, then you are marrying for an immigration benefit, even if you later fall in love. I also don't think you can assume those people intend to stay married. One partner might not. I don't see a difference.

I think that's one of the reasons with IMBRA was passed. Unless USCIS wants to outright prohibit granting Visas to anyone who uses marriage brokers (I think that's what they call them), such unions are as legitimate as any marriage.

We've had these discussions before - the motivations behind marrying a USC, but I don't think it's fair to make blanket judgments about the immigration intentions of foreigners who seek out marrying a USC.

What is their motivation if not to eventually move to the U.S.? Or at least get gifts from the U.S.? Why else would they single out a particular nationality or set of nationalities?

DingDingDing!

[diadromous mermaid 36]

but it's on par (imo) with a well off older man marrying a young, gorgeous woman from an impoverished nation. They may not love each other, but they both mutually benefit from the marriage.

The stereotype couple you described are NOT committing marriage fraud as they intend to stay married. ...and who is to quanitify whether any couple here 'loves' each other beyond the evidence to support a bonafide marriage to immigration?

I'm not quantifying whether people 'love' each other or not...since love is not a prereq to a 'bonafide' marriage in the eyes of USCIS, it's superfluous to this conversation. I wasn't implying that so and so doesn't love each other.....I'm just saying that with an IMB, surely the non-foreign SO looking for 'an American' is doing so at least partially for immi benefit.

This particular story was blatant, and yes, morally wrong as there's money being exchanged. But at the same time, all I'm saying is I see some shades of grey.

I actually agree with Lisa. If you meet your spouse because they signed up for some program for meeting Americans who come to your country looking for wives, then you are marrying for an immigration benefit, even if you later fall in love. I also don't think you can assume those people intend to stay married. One partner might not. I don't see a difference.

I think that's one of the reasons with IMBRA was passed. Unless USCIS wants to outright prohibit granting Visas to anyone who uses marriage brokers (I think that's what they call them), such unions are as legitimate as any marriage.

We've had these discussions before - the motivations behind marrying a USC, but I don't think it's fair to make blanket judgments about the immigration intentions of foreigners who seek out marrying a USC.

What is their motivation if not to eventually move to the U.S.? Or at least get gifts from the U.S.? Why else would they single out a particular nationality or set of nationalities?

DingDingDing!

But that's just it. This isn't against the law, certainly not Immigration Law anyway, to enjoy living in America..or enjoy American people, or enjoy the fruits of one's labour in America, either. What is against the law is marrying for the sole purpose of gaining residency. And there are people that are fascinated with other cultures, enough to say prefer a mate that hails from one place over another...for cultural reasons, if nothing else. Residency can be ONE significant factor in an alien's choice to marry. It just can't be the SOLE purpose.

It has been said for many years, that American's (many, not all) had a love affair with Brits; they were referred to as Anglophiles. Does that mean that if a guy wanted to encounter a mate from the UK that he would be commiting immigration fraud? Nope!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

But that's just it. This isn't against the law, certainly not Immigration Law anyway, to enjoy living in America..or enjoy American people, or enjoy the fruits of one's labour in America, either. What is against the law is marrying for the sole purpose of gaining residency. And there are people that are fascinated with other cultures, enough to say prefer a mate that hails from one place over another...for cultural reasons, if nothing else. Residency can be ONE significant factor in an alien's choice to marry. It just can't be the SOLE purpose.

It has been said for many years, that American's (many, not all) had a love affair with Brits; they were referred to as Anglophiles. Does that mean that if a guy wanted to encounter a mate from the UK that he would be commiting immigration fraud? Nope!

I agree. The notion of marrying someone solely for love is a fairly new concept and I'd argue that many people here in the states still consider several other factors before choosing a spouse (USC marrying a USC) - a person's education, religion, job/financial status, ethnicity, family, location (city or town). The underlying motivation for most of those reasons, IMO, is security. Marrying solely for love is a romantic notion but I'd hardly believe there are many garbage men marrying lawyers and vice versa.

Edited December 16, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[Caladan 19]

but it's on par (imo) with a well off older man marrying a young, gorgeous woman from an impoverished nation. They may not love each other, but they both mutually benefit from the marriage.

The stereotype couple you described are NOT committing marriage fraud as they intend to stay married. ...and who is to quanitify whether any couple here 'loves' each other beyond the evidence to support a bonafide marriage to immigration?

I'm not quantifying whether people 'love' each other or not...since love is not a prereq to a 'bonafide' marriage in the eyes of USCIS, it's superfluous to this conversation. I wasn't implying that so and so doesn't love each other.....I'm just saying that with an IMB, surely the non-foreign SO looking for 'an American' is doing so at least partially for immi benefit.

This particular story was blatant, and yes, morally wrong as there's money being exchanged. But at the same time, all I'm saying is I see some shades of grey.

I actually agree with Lisa. If you meet your spouse because they signed up for some program for meeting Americans who come to your country looking for wives, then you are marrying for an immigration benefit, even if you later fall in love. I also don't think you can assume those people intend to stay married. One partner might not. I don't see a difference.

As far as USCIS is concerned it's only when it's primarily for immigration benefit that there is a problem. If one of the attractions is that the guy is American and it's a ticket to financial security and a better overall life, that's okay. No one says that your marriage to a foreigner actually has to be happy, or that the USC is not deluding themselves, or that it has to be ideal.

It's a delicate balance, certainly, but if the standard were 'the USC's nationality is irrelevant' many, many couples wouldn't get through immigration. It's allowed to be relevant, just not the sole purpose. That's the big difference between the craigslist and the marriage broker.

[Caladan 19]

But that's just it. This isn't against the law, certainly not Immigration Law anyway, to enjoy living in America..or enjoy American people, or enjoy the fruits of one's labour in America, either. What is against the law is marrying for the sole purpose of gaining residency. And there are people that are fascinated with other cultures, enough to say prefer a mate that hails from one place over another...for cultural reasons, if nothing else. Residency can be ONE significant factor in an alien's choice to marry. It just can't be the SOLE purpose.

It has been said for many years, that American's (many, not all) had a love affair with Brits; they were referred to as Anglophiles. Does that mean that if a guy wanted to encounter a mate from the UK that he would be commiting immigration fraud? Nope!

I agree. The notion of marrying someone solely for love is a fairly new concept and I'd argue that many people here in the states still consider several other factors before choosing a spouse (USC marrying a USC) - a person's education, religion, job/financial status, ethnicity, family, location (city or town). The underlying motivation for most of those reasons, IMO, is security. Marrying solely for love is a romantic notion but I'd hardly believe there are too many garbage men marrying lawyers and vice versa.

Even people who marry for love oddly enough usually pick people of the right educational, class, ethnicity, and religious background. There are always exceptions, of course, but we can see the filters that people unconsciously apply. "We married for love, we just happened to meet at the country club's Yale day" "I don't care about money, I just went to church in my hometown and there I met my husband!" "We met as undergrads at State" "I went to a party thrown by a friend who went to law school." "We met at a friend's wedding." "We met when we both did junior year study abroad." "We met at the monster truck rally." "We met at a poodle fancier's society meeting." "We were high school sweethearts."

Now, it's not polite to talk about it, and it's unseemly to focus on it too much. But that doesn't mean that the filtering isn't happening.

[Fandango 1,439]

But that's just it. This isn't against the law, certainly not Immigration Law anyway, to enjoy living in America..or enjoy American people, or enjoy the fruits of one's labour in America, either. What is against the law is marrying for the sole purpose of gaining residency. And there are people that are fascinated with other cultures, enough to say prefer a mate that hails from one place over another...for cultural reasons, if nothing else. Residency can be ONE significant factor in an alien's choice to marry. It just can't be the SOLE purpose.

It has been said for many years, that American's (many, not all) had a love affair with Brits; they were referred to as Anglophiles. Does that mean that if a guy wanted to encounter a mate from the UK that he would be commiting immigration fraud? Nope!

I'm not trying to draw a parallel with the IMB to the CL ad in regards to the illegality...what I'm trying to say is that the CL shares a commonality with the IMB. No, they're not exactly alike....but with an IMB, you have foreign women actively seeking Western men for marriage. Of course, many/most/I dunno exactly how much % wise of IMB relationships develop into something wayyyy more meaningful & there are loads of successful marriages, I'm sure...but the implied visa benefit very well MIGHT be the procuring cause for many of these initial encounters. What you say does make sense as far as the law and it not being the SOLE purpose.

But if I were to think about this further, I would actually prefer to see GC marriages instead of illegal overstays/marriages where the petitioner is duped into thinking it's more than what it is. Hey, at least that couple will be scrutinized and governed by USCIS with AOS and all else that follows. I don't really care if Joe American marries his friend's cousin to keep her in the country...like I said before, that type of marriage is not how *I* personally define what marriage is. (I was v offended and quite pissed off when a person recently asked me if I'd marry one of his friends, btw) If Joe wants to sponsor her, and he wants to take responsibility for her, then hey, where's the harm?

The defining illegality of the whole ad is based in the language, which could have been worded differently, and not been illegal. 'Looking for marriage, I want someone who is my friend, blah blah blah'

Of course, it's not legal as the law and the ad are written now....but I think there's a real grey area, imo

But that's just it. This isn't against the law, certainly not Immigration Law anyway, to enjoy living in America..or enjoy American people, or enjoy the fruits of one's labour in America, either. What is against the law is marrying for the sole purpose of gaining residency. And there are people that are fascinated with other cultures, enough to say prefer a mate that hails from one place over another...for cultural reasons, if nothing else. Residency can be ONE significant factor in an alien's choice to marry. It just can't be the SOLE purpose.

It has been said for many years, that American's (many, not all) had a love affair with Brits; they were referred to as Anglophiles. Does that mean that if a guy wanted to encounter a mate from the UK that he would be commiting immigration fraud? Nope!

I agree. The notion of marrying someone solely for love is a fairly new concept and I'd argue that many people here in the states still consider several other factors before choosing a spouse (USC marrying a USC) - a person's education, religion, job/financial status, ethnicity, family, location (city or town). The underlying motivation for most of those reasons, IMO, is security. Marrying solely for love is a romantic notion but I'd hardly believe there are too many garbage men marrying lawyers and vice versa.

Even people who marry for love oddly enough usually pick people of the right educational, class, ethnicity, and religious background. There are always exceptions, of course, but we can see the filters that people unconsciously apply. "We married for love, we just happened to meet at the country club's Yale day" "I don't care about money, I just went to church in my hometown and there I met my husband!" "We met as undergrads at State" "I went to a party thrown by a friend who went to law school." "We met at a friend's wedding." "We met when we both did junior year study abroad." "We met at the monster truck rally." "We met at a poodle fancier's society meeting." "We were high school sweethearts."

Now, it's not polite to talk about it, and it's unseemly to focus on it too much. But that doesn't mean that the filtering isn't happening.

I don't think anyone is arguing that people who marry for love don't have other requirements/prerequisites/filters when choosing a spouse. The notion of not marrying for love is alien to me.....but before we got to the 'love' part, there were other things to gauge first. Like compatibility/personality/education/views/stability/etc. Had D not possessed what I was looking for, I wouldn't have stuck around love enough to have fallen in love with him.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

But if I were to think about this further, I would actually prefer to see GC marriages instead of illegal overstays/marriages where the petitioner is duped into thinking it's more than what it is.

Do you think that illegal overstays/marriges are the typical ones where the petitioner is duped into thinking it is more than what it is? I think NOT!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

That's why I married Bren for his money and possessions.... and student debt,

Love just complicates things

[Fandango 1,439]

But if I were to think about this further, I would actually prefer to see GC marriages instead of illegal overstays/marriages where the petitioner is duped into thinking it's more than what it is.

Do you think that illegal overstays/marriges are the typical ones where the petitioner is duped into thinking it is more than what it is? I think NOT!

No, you completely misunderstood what I was saying.

ETA: take the / I wrote above and read 'OR' .

Edited December 16, 2007 by LisaD