Christian groups slam new Kidman children's movie

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I have read all three books in the trilogy - The Golden Compass, The Amber Spyglass and The Subtle Knife - they are absolutely fantastic! The opposition to Authority - and Church Based Authority - has more to do with the dogma and the power grab of religious organizations - and not with true spirituality which is also explored by these novels. The spiritual world becomes greater and vaster than than we can imagine while the religious world becomes restricted to physical structures and authoritarianism that while good of the few in power comes at the expense of the world at large - especially those who are least able to fight back the power abuse.

We are definitely going to see it, although I suspect it may not be a movie suitable for younger children to see. If they are true to the trilogy, the ending is sad, not because of death or anything like that but because Lyra enters the world of adulthood and has to make adult-type decisions that are in the best interest of the greater good but are personally tragic - the exact opposite of how the Authoritarian figures in this book behave.

Go and see it before you decide if it is good or bad. If an individual's own personal religious beliefs are so fragile that they cannot stand up to a movie like this then maybe their beliefs should be put under the examining glass.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Kathryn41

[PlatyPius 5]

Christians, sheesh!

I have read all three books in the trilogy - Northern Lights, The Amber Spyglass and The Subtle Knife - they are absolutely fantastic!

fixx0red

[Sister Fracas 5]

If an individual's own personal religious beliefs are so fragile that they cannot stand up to a movie like this then maybe their beliefs should be put under the examining glass.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Amby 490]

I think the movie looks quite good...I'll take my 10yr old cousins to see it and let you know if they become atheists

[Emancipation 2]

If an individual's own personal religious beliefs are so fragile that they cannot stand up to a movie like this then maybe their beliefs should be put under the examining glass.

Truly, but if someone of faith decides out of personal conviction, after taking in the information surrounding this, not to watch this move then that shouldn't be laughed at IMO..

For the leaders of a church to forbid the watching of a movie (or ban or burn) etc. is one thing.. (I would disagree with that)

but if the leaders of a church point out some ideology or something about an author or movie that their congregations may or may not know about .. I don't think that's dangerous.. It's just information... and the more information we have the better in this day and age!

The movie is just that - a movie.. but knowing the person's motivations and particular persuasions behind the stories that he or she writes about does have an impact on what we choose as a personal decision to read/watch IMO.

Just some thoughts from reading over this thread

[Peikko 1,575]

It's fiction, how can a fictional story threaten someone's belief system? I don't get it, sorry.

[SteveLaura 0]

It's fiction, how can a fictional story threaten someone's belief system? I don't get it, sorry.

I think the issue is that, for a lot of people (myself included) these books aren't well-known enough as anti-organised religion, or whatever. Plus they're children's books. If the church (any) wants to say, "Hey, there's this subtext you might want to know about", I have no problem with that. Children will grow up and challenge their own belief system - maybe making it stronger, maybe less so. I'd like to think that the church is saying that that should happen in its own sweet time, rather than because of this film. Similarly (albeit different context), if there's a film that says, "Hey kids, Santa Claus is really your parents", there'll be many people who'd like that heads-up too.

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

The movie is just that - a movie.. but knowing the person's motivations and particular persuasions behind the stories that he or she writes about does have an impact on what we choose as a personal decision to read/watch IMO.

Hence many non-christians believing the Bible is bullshit given the function of the Council of Nicea. To me, I think the council's motivation was to control more believers, which is not sticking with true Christian fundamentals.

[Peikko 1,575]

So, the fictional books are anti organised religion, so what? If the organised religion can rebutt the ideas in the book/film, what have they go to be scared about? How does it threaten them?

Edited December 6, 2007 by Purple_Hibiscus

[mawilson 2,133]

It threatens them, because they know they are fighting a losing battle.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I saw a Church group guy talking about the book on TV the other week - his angry sour-faced attitude pretty much summed up his whole argument (i.e. he didn't have one).

[jundp 191]

I haven't read the book, but I'm actually a little inclined to the side of the protesters....the book basically was about killing the God of Christianity because he'd gone aged and demented, where the church tortured children, and heaven was a lie, just a place where you wandered around sad being tortured by harpies. That said, it's reported that they've kept a lot of it out of the movie.

The book could blatantly say that Christianity was evil. That doesn't change the fact that these protesters are afraid if kids are exposed to another viewpoint, they'll abandon the religion. STFU Catholic League. I read the Chronicles of Narnia and didn't start worshipping Jesus; I think these kids will be ok.

We discussed this movie in church on Sunday, in the context of understanding the roots of the movie. Many people thought "hey, this is going to be a neat movie to take our kids to see" until they heard what the books are all about. The author has made no bones about how his beliefs show up in his books and about why he wrote them.

I have no problem exposing my future children to differing viewpoints, alternative worldviews, etc. because becoming a Christian is a personal choice, one I cannot force them into, I cannot live their lives for them. With that being said, I have a responsibility to be educated on what I am exposing them to. This is no ordinary kid's movie -- you'd never know it by the trailer, when I saw it I was interested in it as well. Now, after doing some independent research, I am not so sure if I want to see it. And before someone slams me, yes I have read all the Harry Potter books, and got mad when Christian parents got all up in arms about them. This movie for me is a different kettle of fish.

As a Catholic Christian, a parent, and a Catholic English teacher, I agree with much of Cal's post. I abhor censorship and have taken up that challenge against my archdiocese many times on behalf of my students. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with schools or churches giving information to parents and students. The information given by my daughter's school was not "DON'T READ THIS BOOK IT'S EVIL!" but rather it listed interviews with Pullman in which he declared himself to be atheist and that his hope was to be the "anti- CS Lewis." The only information that could be seen as the church criticizing was for them to say "Parents of young children who may not understand are urged to read the books and/or see the movie first and decide as a family whether or not to pursue this." I think that is good sense.

The other thing that people rarely take note of - is that often, the folks behind this sort of criticism have not themselves read/watched/listened to - the object of their criticism.

I wouldn't take the word of a church group as a reason not to see a particular movie, or read a particular book. What kind of decision-making would that be?

I agree with you here, but I also think that for those who have made the personal choice to raise their children Christian, it doe spay to be informed about the movies and books that we let our children be exposed to. I read all the debates over the Harry Potter stuff when the books first came out, then I read the books myself and decided that my children could make their own decisions. Unfortunately, not everyone feels this way or is educated enough or has enough faith in their own parenting, I guess. But I think that blanket statements like "Catholic League STFU" are unnecessary. After all, in the same way that Catholics (or other Christians) don't have to read these books or see these movies, if you aren't Catholic, you need not concern yourself with the cautions of this or any church....

Most educated, thinking, rational Christians can make up their own minds and aren't lulled like lemmigs by the leaders of the church. Yet if we oppose something we are labeled as crazy fanatics.

That being said, I personally don't oppose the books or the movie because my children know the difference between fiction and reality.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think what really bothers me about all this is the ridiculous amount of coverage these stories get in the news. It helps to sell cinema tickets of course – but these things are so overanalyzed that the original message is often lost; or a new one invented (like this “atheist movement” rubbish).

After all, controversial subtexts in books and movies are nothing new; and it’s not like these books came out last year. They’ve been in publication for (I think) over 10 years – but now they’re getting a mainstream audience through the news media we now apparently need a big hoo-ha about what the author did or didn’t intend, and what the books do and don’t say.

I’m slightly on the fence here as I have done literary criticism at college and university. As a writer I think it helps to understand how these things are put together, consciously or otherwise, but beyond that I think the tendency towards over-analysis removes at least some part the enjoyment of these stories.

I read C.S Lewis as a kid (between 6 and 10) and remember enjoying his Narnia books. It’s a different story now – I find his literary tone cloying and rather condescending. Same story with Tolkien too – though to a lesser degree.

[sandinista! 1,816]

*sigh*

I get so sick of Christians sometimes... and I am one, so that's a bit problematic

Let 'em protest. When they start suicide bombing movie theaters or beheading people give me a call.

been there done that.

when the last temptation of christ came out, some french catholic fundamentalists threw molotov cocktails into a theater in paris. 4 people suffered serious burn injuries.

last year, a dutch priest called in a bomb threat to a madonna concert.

ted rall has received death threats for years because he calls bs on the american cult of us military worship.

idiocy knows no bounds.

[SteveLaura 0]

So, the fictional books are anti organised religion, so what? If the organised religion can rebutt the ideas in the book/film, what have they go to be scared about? How does it threaten them?

For films or books aimed at adults (Da Vinci Code, for example), a heads-up is unnecessary & pretty stupid - and probably counter-productive. (I was swept up & went to see the Dav Vinci Code, never having read the book. I hope the book was better cos the film was #######.)

I don't normally give the Church the benefit of the doubt, but I don't see this as them saying the film and the books are a threat to their existence. I honestly interpret this as merely a heads-up to say it may deal with issues that young children may not to be able to grasp yet. The film is going to be hugely marketed and will probably reach a larger audience than the books did the first time around. (Watch the re-issues with "Now a major motion picture" blazoned on the front hit your bookstore soon.)