Doesn't Iran Matter?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Gary, is there a treaty that pledges we'll protect them?

I'm aware of one for Taiwan and for our NATO allies.... so please point me to the treaty we've signed to protect Israel from all enemies. Thanks.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The sooner we get away from this John Wayne foreign policy the better for everyone.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I don't think I'd be very happy if some foreign country wanted to infringe on our sovereignty because their intelligence was run by a bunch of clowns.

That's the point, though, isn't it? Attack unless we figure out with 100% certainty what's going on as Gary seems to wish we did is the most ridiculous and most dangerous approach imaginable. Simply because nobody will ever figure out with that kind of certainty what the others are doing. Hence, the whole world would be at war at all times.

It sometimes helps to use the head over the gut in international relations.

So what would you do? Take the nutjob that is running Iran for his word? Then what would you say when someone gets a nuke up it's azz? Sorry, I didn't want to make a mistake so I didn't do anything?

I understand that you'd like to see more bloodshed in the region. Me, I think we need to work this through the established channels and bodies to find a solution as we did with crazy Kim. Remember, that guy was said to be impossible to reach a deal with. All it took was actually talking to him. Same approach. It's a heck of a lot m ore promising and productive than dropping bombs killing more innocents. I don't understand your war fetish. I really don't.

[GaryC 7]

I don't think I'd be very happy if some foreign country wanted to infringe on our sovereignty because their intelligence was run by a bunch of clowns.

That's the point, though, isn't it? Attack unless we figure out with 100% certainty what's going on as Gary seems to wish we did is the most ridiculous and most dangerous approach imaginable. Simply because nobody will ever figure out with that kind of certainty what the others are doing. Hence, the whole world would be at war at all times.

It sometimes helps to use the head over the gut in international relations.

So what would you do? Take the nutjob that is running Iran for his word? Then what would you say when someone gets a nuke up it's azz? Sorry, I didn't want to make a mistake so I didn't do anything?

Would you rather damage international relations and see the price of oil skyrocket? Not to mention, it would be a boon for recruitment of AQ and other terrorist groups.

Attacking Iran is not without its consequences.

I know there are consequences. But there are also consequences for inaction. What do you think the price of oil would do if Isreal and Iran traded nukes? What do you think the world terrorism situation would do if Iran attacked Israel and they responded?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Like I said, Iran can stop this whole thing right now. All they have to do is let the UN have full access to every facility and this whole thing would go away.

Yeah, that's what they told Saddam. Didn't work for him. Once the maniac at 1600 Penn Ave is replaced we might stand a chance at getting things back on track. The current occupant is a liability on foreign relations - not the least trustworthy.

Your selctive memory is breathtaking. Please butt out of the conversation if all you want to do is blame Bush.

My selective memory? Rather your selective recognition of well documented historical data. The inspectors were working unfettered in Iraq until Bush told them to get out. I backed that up with the transcript of the report of the guy in charge of the inspections just yesterday. Your refusal to acknowledge this simple, well documented fact doesn't make it go away.

[GaryC 7]

I don't think I'd be very happy if some foreign country wanted to infringe on our sovereignty because their intelligence was run by a bunch of clowns.

That's the point, though, isn't it? Attack unless we figure out with 100% certainty what's going on as Gary seems to wish we did is the most ridiculous and most dangerous approach imaginable. Simply because nobody will ever figure out with that kind of certainty what the others are doing. Hence, the whole world would be at war at all times.

It sometimes helps to use the head over the gut in international relations.

So what would you do? Take the nutjob that is running Iran for his word? Then what would you say when someone gets a nuke up it's azz? Sorry, I didn't want to make a mistake so I didn't do anything?

I understand that you'd like to see more bloodshed in the region. Me, I think we need to work this through the established channels and bodies to find a solution as we did with crazy Kim. Remember, that guy was said to be impossible to reach a deal with. All it took was actually talking to him. Same approach. It's a heck of a lot m ore promising and productive than dropping bombs killing more innocents. I don't understand your war fetish. I really don't.

N.Korea isn't the same as Iran. N.Korea is so poor they can't even feed themselves let alone build a workable nuke. Iran is different. They have the money and the will to make a bomb. I don't understand why you don't want to protect ourselves and our allies. I really don't.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think we've seen enough of "Fukc it up today, so we can pay for it tomorrow". Again - why is it that Iran is the way it is? Did we have nothing whatsoever to do with creating the conditions we face today?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Gary, why are you so eager to sacrifice American lives for Israel? Do we even have a treaty with them, as we do with Taiwan and our NATO allies?

Even if Iran had nukes, it's Israel's problem.

[GaryC 7]

Like I said, Iran can stop this whole thing right now. All they have to do is let the UN have full access to every facility and this whole thing would go away.

Yeah, that's what they told Saddam. Didn't work for him. Once the maniac at 1600 Penn Ave is replaced we might stand a chance at getting things back on track. The current occupant is a liability on foreign relations - not the least trustworthy.

Your selctive memory is breathtaking. Please butt out of the conversation if all you want to do is blame Bush.

My selective memory? Rather your selective recognition of well documented historical data. The inspectors were working unfettered in Iraq until Bush told them to get out. I backed that up with the transcript of the report of the guy in charge of the inspections just yesterday. Your refusal to acknowledge this simple, well documented fact doesn't make it go away.

You believe what you want to believe. I know now that I can't change that. Saddam kicked out the inspectors for years and had all that time to hide anything they didn't want found. The fact that the inspectors were allowed access to abandond buildings does not constitute cooperation. But it seems that is good enough for you. So you just go on thinking that Saddam was the good guy all you want. I feel sorry for you really.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What do you think the price of oil would do if Isreal and Iran traded nukes? What do you think the world terrorism situation would do if Iran attacked Israel and they responded?

Even if both were nuclear, I've got three letters for you: M A D. Sound familiar?

It's not a pretty picture but it does guarantee a good degree of stability.

It sure has done that for decades during the cold war.

[Dan J 277]

I don't think I'd be very happy if some foreign country wanted to infringe on our sovereignty because their intelligence was run by a bunch of clowns.

That's the point, though, isn't it? Attack unless we figure out with 100% certainty what's going on as Gary seems to wish we did is the most ridiculous and most dangerous approach imaginable. Simply because nobody will ever figure out with that kind of certainty what the others are doing. Hence, the whole world would be at war at all times.

It sometimes helps to use the head over the gut in international relations.

So what would you do? Take the nutjob that is running Iran for his word? Then what would you say when someone gets a nuke up it's azz? Sorry, I didn't want to make a mistake so I didn't do anything?

Would you rather damage international relations and see the price of oil skyrocket? Not to mention, it would be a boon for recruitment of AQ and other terrorist groups.

Attacking Iran is not without its consequences.

I know there are consequences. But there are also consequences for inaction. What do you think the price of oil would do if Isreal and Iran traded nukes? What do you think the world terrorism situation would do if Iran attacked Israel and they responded?

For one, its very unlikely that they would actually use nuclear weapons against each other. Nuclear weapons are primarily deterents against aggression. The reason North Korea and Iran want nuclear weapons, is that they see the US as an aggressor, and their sovereignty threatened.

Besides that, if Iran is seen as the aggressor, it wont effect recruitment as much as an unprovoked outside attack on Iran would.

[GaryC 7]

Gary, why are you so eager to sacrifice American lives for Israel? Do we even have a treaty with them, as we do with Taiwan and our NATO allies?

Even if Iran had nukes, it's Israel's problem.

I haven't the time right now to google if we have a protection treaty with Israel or not. I don't care. They are our friends and should have our protection. Why are you so willing to sacrifice the lives of our friends in Israel? They are the one friend in the area.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Saddam - Good guy? Hardly.

The pertinent question is whether he posed a direct threat to think country's national security; for example - with the alleged remote controlled, chemical/biological bomb carrying UAVs he allegedly developed.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Like I said, Iran can stop this whole thing right now. All they have to do is let the UN have full access to every facility and this whole thing would go away.

Yeah, that's what they told Saddam. Didn't work for him. Once the maniac at 1600 Penn Ave is replaced we might stand a chance at getting things back on track. The current occupant is a liability on foreign relations - not the least trustworthy.

Your selctive memory is breathtaking. Please butt out of the conversation if all you want to do is blame Bush.

My selective memory? Rather your selective recognition of well documented historical data. The inspectors were working unfettered in Iraq until Bush told them to get out. I backed that up with the transcript of the report of the guy in charge of the inspections just yesterday. Your refusal to acknowledge this simple, well documented fact doesn't make it go away.

You believe what you want to believe. I know now that I can't change that. Saddam kicked out the inspectors for years and had all that time to hide anything they didn't want found. The fact that the inspectors were allowed access to abandond buildings does not constitute cooperation. But it seems that is good enough for you. So you just go on thinking that Saddam was the good guy all you want. I feel sorry for you really.

No Gary, you're the guy with the beliefs. I've been the one with the actual documentation backing up what I say. Not opinion pieces, not propaganda but firsthand, original documentation backing up what I say. You have your belief to the contrary with no actual back-up that I've seen. As such, I documented yesterday that the chief inspector reported to the Security Council just 12 days prior to our illegal invasion that the inspectors were able to perform unfettered, no-notice inspections across the country. You choose to ignore this but the facts remain and prove your claim wrong.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Gary, why are you so eager to sacrifice American lives for Israel? Do we even have a treaty with them, as we do with Taiwan and our NATO allies?

Even if Iran had nukes, it's Israel's problem.

I haven't the time right now to google if we have a protection treaty with Israel or not. I don't care. They are our friends and should have our protection. Why are you so willing to sacrifice the lives of our friends in Israel? They are the one friend in the area.

I think they can take care of themselves just fine. History has proven it.

We, on the other hand, have a less-than-stellar history at winning wars post WW2.