Mosocw Medical Exam Controversy

[Buck and Natalia 0]

I agree that the abandonment of the traditional female role is to a significant extent driving some men towards foreign brides, but it's still a pretty niche activity, mostly due to the social stigma. I think that statistically it can't really be called a trend. Nor do I think it will ever gain the momentum to be a trend. In Russia, women are becoming more and more like Western women, and care less and less about the traditional roles their mothers filled. I suspect the next generation of Russian women will be much closer to American women in terms of the role they expect to take in a marriage. So...get em now while you can, I guess.

Your point about yonger Russian women changing is true in my judgment. The "New Russia" women. And i think looking beyond the comfort of Moscow and St. Pete to more remote or smaller cities will increase the chances to find an old-school " Russian village girl" ...the ones who still hold traditional values and are willing to work hard and make the extra effort to make her man happy. The ones who have known hardships and struggle, and will appreciate what the western world might offer them.

OK..... I tried but couldn't resist contributing to the social commentary. I agree that there are many factors driving the Russian-bride phenomena. I agree that this may be a short-term phenomena that may pass with this generation of Russian women as they become more westernized. What is driving the current phenomena? These are my limited observations: Russian women tend to be under-appreciated by russian men. The reasons are very complex but this seems to be a general trend. For the past few decades, Russian women have been the glue holding Soviet and post-Soviet society together. Yet, Russian women tend to be treated rather cavalierly by their men. Many factors are at work but I suspect that the Soviet model and post-Perestroika chaos that ensued somehow severely damaged the traditional role filled by a man in a family. Similarly, USA men tend to be under-appreciated by USA women. Again, the reasons are very complex but this seems to be a general trend. I suspect that somehow current American culture severely damaged the traditional role filled by a woman in a family. The advent of the internet and thawing of relations between the USA and Russia allowed Russian women and USA men to communicate. On a macro level, both sides dicovered something in the other that they were yearing for but not finding in their home countries. On a micro level, it is easy to see why strong love relationships would develop between individuals in these two groups. I know it sounds rather simplistic as I write this...... but, again, these are just my observations.

[Igor&Elina 0]

Here is a link visited by hundreds of Russian women that have already been through the medical exam process. I think they talk about this issue quite extensively. It might be worth checking out by your fiancees........

http://www.russian-fiancee.com/rus/forum/

Actually, I rather pity any medical clinic or medical examiners that try to do something unsavory to Natalia or treat her disrespectfully. The Battle of Stalingrad would look like an afternoon tea party after she was finished with them.

Buck

Most (if not all) of the recent reports on that site do say that MOM has become quite good. Looks like no more iffy stuff going on there. But, just in case our own solution to any kind of possible problems is rather simple. We have scheduled Elina's medical at MOM for Dec 26th, while I'm going to be visiting for the holidays. I will simply accompany her through the whole process.

[Buck and Natalia 0]

I agree that the abandonment of the traditional female role is to a significant extent driving some men towards foreign brides, but it's still a pretty niche activity, mostly due to the social stigma. I think that statistically it can't really be called a trend. Nor do I think it will ever gain the momentum to be a trend. In Russia, women are becoming more and more like Western women, and care less and less about the traditional roles their mothers filled. I suspect the next generation of Russian women will be much closer to American women in terms of the role they expect to take in a marriage. So...get em now while you can, I guess.

Your point about yonger Russian women changing is true in my judgment. The "New Russia" women. And i think looking beyond the comfort of Moscow and St. Pete to more remote or smaller cities will increase the chances to find an old-school " Russian village girl" ...the ones who still hold traditional values and are willing to work hard and make the extra effort to make her man happy. The ones who have known hardships and struggle, and will appreciate what the western world might offer them.

OK..... I tried but couldn't resist contributing to the social commentary. I agree that there are many factors driving the Russian-bride phenomena. I agree that this may be a short-term phenomena that may pass with this generation of Russian women as they become more westernized. What is driving the current phenomena? These are my limited observations: Russian women tend to be under-appreciated by russian men. The reasons are very complex but this seems to be a general trend. For the past few decades, Russian women have been the glue holding Soviet and post-Soviet society together. Yet, Russian women tend to be treated rather cavalierly by their men. Many factors are at work but I suspect that the Soviet model and post-Perestroika chaos that ensued somehow severely damaged the traditional role filled by a man in a family. Similarly, USA men tend to be under-appreciated by USA women. Again, the reasons are very complex but this seems to be a general trend. I suspect that somehow current American culture severely damaged the traditional role filled by a woman in a family. The advent of the internet and thawing of relations between the USA and Russia allowed Russian women and USA men to communicate. On a macro level, both sides dicovered something in the other that they were yearning for but not finding in their home countries. On a micro level, it is easy to see why strong love relationships would develop between individuals in these two groups. I know it sounds rather simplistic as I write this...... but, again, these are just my observations.

[visaveteran1 33]

The ones who have known hardships and struggle, and will appreciate what the western world might offer them.

I dunno about that. I'm all for the traditional woman; it's one of my SO's most endearing qualities to me. But I'm certainly not looking for a woman who is looking to escape her life, hardships or otherwise. I don't need or want that baggage. I've seen how "rescue syndrome" relationships end, and it's not pretty.

My SO has made it pretty clear that she's not abandoning Russia. She fully expects that we'll be heading back from time to time, and I fully expect to deliver on that promise. She is giving up a lot to come to me, and not because of what a western world might offer her, but because she wants to be with me. I have no doubt in my mind that she'd go back to Russia if I gave her cause, even if she had permanent residency by then. I'm perfectly fine with that, because it means she's starting a new life to be with me, not because of what she can gain from being in the West.

It's not rescue, it's moving upwards...it's betterment. It's like moving into a bigger better house. You might miss some things and have a little nostalgia for the little place you once lived, but you're happy to leave also. My wife has family in Siberia and will return one month a year to visit and be with family. But I hear her say she "hates" Russia also. There is sadness and disappointment about her country and when i see the prices and lack of basic services and riding the elevator to her flat standing in human urine, I doubt she wants to return to that for very long. And her building is actually not bad relatively speaking.

I have heard of women who hate the USA and decide to return...maybe they couldn't cut English or maybe they felt isolated or they're husband took them to the boondocks, or whatever, so I acknowledge the exceptions to the rule. But all the Russian women i've known all say it the same way when things go bad at home..."It is Russia!" Yes...indeed.

[visaveteran1 33]

I agree that the abandonment of the traditional female role is to a significant extent driving some men towards foreign brides, but it's still a pretty niche activity, mostly due to the social stigma. I think that statistically it can't really be called a trend. Nor do I think it will ever gain the momentum to be a trend. In Russia, women are becoming more and more like Western women, and care less and less about the traditional roles their mothers filled. I suspect the next generation of Russian women will be much closer to American women in terms of the role they expect to take in a marriage. So...get em now while you can, I guess.

Your point about yonger Russian women changing is true in my judgment. The "New Russia" women. And i think looking beyond the comfort of Moscow and St. Pete to more remote or smaller cities will increase the chances to find an old-school " Russian village girl" ...the ones who still hold traditional values and are willing to work hard and make the extra effort to make her man happy. The ones who have known hardships and struggle, and will appreciate what the western world might offer them.

OK..... I tried but couldn't resist contributing to the social commentary. I agree that there are many factors driving the Russian-bride phenomena. I agree that this may be a short-term phenomena that may pass with this generation of Russian women as they become more westernized. What is driving the current phenomena? These are my limited observations: Russian women tend to be under-appreciated by russian men. The reasons are very complex but this seems to be a general trend. For the past few decades, Russian women have been the glue holding Soviet and post-Soviet society together. Yet, Russian women tend to be treated rather cavalierly by their men. Many factors are at work but I suspect that the Soviet model and post-Perestroika chaos that ensued somehow severely damaged the traditional role filled by a man in a family. Similarly, USA men tend to be under-appreciated by USA women. Again, the reasons are very complex but this seems to be a general trend. I suspect that somehow current American culture severely damaged the traditional role filled by a woman in a family. The advent of the internet and thawing of relations between the USA and Russia allowed Russian women and USA men to communicate. On a macro level, both sides dicovered something in the other that they were yearning for but not finding in their home countries. On a micro level, it is easy to see why strong love relationships would develop between individuals in these two groups. I know it sounds rather simplistic as I write this...... but, again, these are just my observations.

Yes...you say it well. I agree with your observations of the light side or the phenomena. Like most things there is also a shadow side to the phenomena...the scams in Russia where some older men have lost thousands to the phony schemes. And the crazy or crackpot men over here looking for a personal slave, etc. resulting in the Adam Walsh law. But there is a nice "dance" going on between many Russian women and American men. There is a poetic balance between what each side offers the other.

I do think the window may be closing on this phenomena.

[Buck and Natalia 0]

Yes...you say it well. I agree with your observations of the light side or the phenomena. Like most things there is also a shadow side to the phenomena...the scams in Russia where some older men have lost thousands to the phony schemes. And the crazy or crackpot men over here looking for a personal slave, etc. resulting in the Adam Walsh law. But there is a nice "dance" going on between many Russian women and American men. There is a poetic balance between what each side offers the other.

I do think the window may be closing on this phenomena.

I think the window might be closing as well but it sure is nice to be included in the dance........ is it not?

[mox 298]

My SO is a nurse, so I'm pretty sure she wouldn't take it lying down either, erm...so to speak. I have seen her angry once, and I've seen her super-incredibly-pissed-off once. Fortunately it was only the former that was directed at me. I'd almost feel sorry for those bastards if they tried anything "unsavory." Almost. But I'm just going to avoid the situation altogether. I'm glad to hear it sounds like MOM's gotten their act together, but we'll be going elsewhere anyway.

[Igor&Elina 0]

We did consider all of the options and the bad reports from MOM were of concern to us, but after seeing that things have improved we have decided to go there anyway, mostly because you get the results the same day. Anyway, we'll be doing it in just about a week. I'll be happy to post a report.

[Buck and Natalia 0]

We did consider all of the options and the bad reports from MOM were of concern to us, but after seeing that things have improved we have decided to go there anyway, mostly because you get the results the same day. Anyway, we'll be doing it in just about a week. I'll be happy to post a report.

THANKS...... AN UPDATE FOLLOWING THE EXAM WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. -))))))))))))))))

[Chris Parker 11]

My SO has made it pretty clear that she's not abandoning Russia. She fully expects that we'll be heading back from time to time, and I fully expect to deliver on that promise. She is giving up a lot to come to me, and not because of what a western world might offer her, but because she wants to be with me. I have no doubt in my mind that she'd go back to Russia if I gave her cause, even if she had permanent residency by then. I'm perfectly fine with that, because it means she's starting a new life to be with me, not because of what she can gain from being in the West.

Good for now, it will probably change after she's adjusted to USA for maybe a year or so.

In general, the rule of thumb is once someone's lived in USA for long enough, the only place in Russia they would consider living in is Moscow or St. Petersburg.

[visaveteran1 33]

My SO has made it pretty clear that she's not abandoning Russia. She fully expects that we'll be heading back from time to time, and I fully expect to deliver on that promise. She is giving up a lot to come to me, and not because of what a western world might offer her, but because she wants to be with me. I have no doubt in my mind that she'd go back to Russia if I gave her cause, even if she had permanent residency by then. I'm perfectly fine with that, because it means she's starting a new life to be with me, not because of what she can gain from being in the West.

Good for now, it will probably change after she's adjusted to USA for maybe a year or so.

In general, the rule of thumb is once someone's lived in USA for long enough, the only place in Russia they would consider living in is Moscow or St. Petersburg.

Yes...agreed. Just to prove the point, there are many single, divorced or separated Russian women living in America. They chose to remain here even as their relationships failed. There is a respected "match-making" company called Encounters International. It is run by a Russian woman located in the Washington, DC area and has a large number of Russian women living in the USA and looking for American men...as well as women still living in Russia or the Ukraine in the database. Even with failed marriages to American men, the women want to stay in the USA. They could go home to Russia, but they don't.

I think sometimes American men want to overly romanticize the situation with the Russian ladies. The Russian women want into America...not Europe or Australia or Asia...but the USA. Who can blame them? So, we, the American men are the beneficiaries of this situation. Frankly, I think the concept of "love" means something very different to Russian women versus American women. The Russian women are pragmatic and looking for stability, comfort and opportunity. I have n o problem with that.

[mox 298]

I think sometimes American men want to overly romanticize the situation with the Russian ladies.

I think sometimes American men want to overly analyze Russian women's motives. The truth likely lies somewhere in between.

The Russian women want into America...not Europe or Australia or Asia...but the USA. Who can blame them? So, we, the American men are the beneficiaries of this situation.

A lot of FSU women wind up with men in Europe, the UK, and Canada. Jump on to any Russian dating sites and you'll find lots of profiles for women who want a man in Germany, mostly due to the fact that German is one of the primary foreign languages taught in Russia.

Frankly, I think the concept of "love" means something very different to Russian women versus American women. The Russian women are pragmatic and looking for stability, comfort and opportunity. I have n o problem with that.

I would argue that stability, comfort, and opportunity are why anybody gets married. For American women, this translates into more of a "partnership." For Russian women, it means that each partner takes on a more traditional role. (if you think this is going to get you out of housework, however, you've got another thing coming! )

As for the concept of "love" meaning something different...back in my Navy days, I attended a lecture given by a Soviet defector. She was trying to explain the Russian "character" to us, in order that we should know their mindset better. She pretty much summarized that while there are wide cultural differences, they are in the end just human beings. They find humor in the same things we do, and they carry the same set of emotions that we do. They are not somehow "wired" differently. With that in mind, love means something different to everyone. Finding someone who has a compatible view of "love" is key. So going into a marriage thinking that she has some mysterious alien ideas about love is also a sure-fire way of winding up extremely unhappy.

[Satellite 1]

The Russian women want into America...not Europe or Australia or Asia...but the USA. Who can blame them? So, we, the American men are the beneficiaries of this situation.

A lot of FSU women wind up with men in Europe, the UK, and Canada. Jump on to any Russian dating sites and you'll find lots of profiles for women who want a man in Germany, mostly due to the fact that German is one of the primary foreign languages taught in Russia.

I don't know what "a lot" means, but lets not forget that the MAJORITY of Russian women marry Russian men and the MAJORITY live in Russia. Therefore, the ones you find on these dating sites are the MINORITY. If you don't count the people living in the former Soviet Republics as Russians living outside of Russia the number is pretty small compared to the total population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_diaspora

[Buck and Natalia 0]

Frankly, I think the concept of "love" means something very different to Russian women versus American women. The Russian women are pragmatic and looking for stability, comfort and opportunity. I have n o problem with that.

I would argue that stability, comfort, and opportunity are why anybody gets married. For American women, this translates into more of a "partnership." For Russian women, it means that each partner takes on a more traditional role. (if you think this is going to get you out of housework, however, you've got another thing coming! )

As for the concept of "love" meaning something different...back in my Navy days, I attended a lecture given by a Soviet defector. She was trying to explain the Russian "character" to us, in order that we should know their mindset better. She pretty much summarized that while there are wide cultural differences, they are in the end just human beings. They find humor in the same things we do, and they carry the same set of emotions that we do. They are not somehow "wired" differently. With that in mind, love means something different to everyone. Finding someone who has a compatible view of "love" is key. So going into a marriage thinking that she has some mysterious alien ideas about love is also a sure-fire way of winding up extremely unhappy.

Yeah, I agree that people are emotionally wired pretty much the same. As I have gotten to know my fiancee and many of her female Russian friends, I find that they cover the full spectrum from very pragmatic to deeply romantic. It just depends on the woman. However, I also agree that the concept of marriage means something a little different to American women versus Russian women. American women tend to want an "equal partnership"....... whatever that means. Russian women tend to be very comfortable in more traditional female roles at home. However, their preference for a traditional role at home does not preclude them from being very accomplished in their chosen fields of work. I think Russian women are just a lot more comfortable being women than most of their female American counterparts. In contrast, I find that many American women (even accomplished women) are not very comfortable with themselves at home or at work. If they stay at home, a small part of them always feels a little guilty as if being a good wife and mother is "not enough." I have witnessed more than one dinner party where a woman has stated that she has decided to focus her energies at home and the other women have given little regard to her opinions after making this admission. The unspoken response seems to be, "So when did you have your lobotomy?" My heart goes out to such women because in this country it takes some moral courage on their part to endure some of the scorn that comes from their American "sisters" for being content to be a good wife and mother.

[slim 1,525]

I do think the window may be closing on this phenomena.

I believe that has more to do with another of the common man's traits, laziness, than with the fact that the women in Russian society are changing.

Ukraine requires no visa. And since Ukrainian and Russian women are pretty much in the same boat (a.k.a. non-Asian, non-Latina) when shopping for a wife, men will revert to the easiest form in most cases and that ends up being Ukrainian women over Russians. Russia is making it harder, not easier, to acquire a foreign bride from their country while Ukraine is taking active steps to facilitate the process. I don't have any numbers (Google, anyone? I'm too lazy (see above) to jump on Wikipedia and find numbers here) but it seems to me that the Russian "mail-order bride business" is starting to slow down and the Ukrainian end is filling the void quite nicely.

I could be off, so hit me with the numbers..... anyone? Anyone? Bueller?