Tom Tancredo Hired Illegal Laborers to Renovate His McMansion

[pedroh 21]

What amazes me, and will continue to amaze me, is people who this doesn't impact negatively cannot see what it does to those who it does impact negatively. To you, insulated as you are, it is a minor matter - pooh pooh. You can afford to champion illegals and turn your back on the problem. I refuse that luxury.

So, one guy, Tom Tancredo, is the source of your accomodation of illegals?

There are a lot of things affecting each and everyone of us negatively, just in terms of governmental policy or lack of... our energy policy, our trade policies....I could go on and on. It's really a matter of perspective, which is what Caladan is pointing out. If, think about this...if all those who are here illegally (and remember nearly half of them are overstayed visas), had gone through the legal channels, how would that have any impact on what you deem as an economic negative? In other words, is our immigration policy designed in such a way that its purpose is to protect our economic interests? Because our trade policies sure don't. The criticism that Caladan and many others here keep trying to point out is that you and many others here are so myopically focused on one single issue of a larger problem. If we could just magically snap our fingers and make all people that are in this country illlegally disappear, the larger problems with our economic policies will not go away.

I'm 54 years old, Steven, and I've been paying attention most of that time to economic issues, large and small. You don't know the half of it, and it is you and those who support illegals who are myopic, not I. It's been a slow, incremental progression that you don't see how it started, and that's why you can't see where it's going.

If you think the problem is economics, how does supporting illegal immigration change policy to the advantage of Americans and legal immigrants? How does it benefit low income minorities? Point that out to me since you believe you know better in your criticism of me

is that your best argument? that they don't know... why do you like to belittle people, always calling them ignorants, closed in their own word, they don't know, they don't know what they're talking about... do you have a degree in everything-ology? or are you based on your 54 years of experience? even if you had that much experience, doesn't give you the right to call someone who disagrees with you an ignorant, or that they don't know what they're talking about

your over-confidence that your point of view is always right, doesn't make you sound that you are very knowledgeable of the topic either, just stuborness to your idea, and, everybody is wrong

Edited December 1, 2007 by pedroh

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I challenge any of you to give me first hand perspective of how immigration and economic policies have affect you personnally between the years 1976-1984. Those are the years I worked in a Congressional post, so I can address them best.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

What amazes me, and will continue to amaze me, is people who this doesn't impact negatively cannot see what it does to those who it does impact negatively. To you, insulated as you are, it is a minor matter - pooh pooh. You can afford to champion illegals and turn your back on the problem. I refuse that luxury.

So, one guy, Tom Tancredo, is the source of your accomodation of illegals?

There are a lot of things affecting each and everyone of us negatively, just in terms of governmental policy or lack of... our energy policy, our trade policies....I could go on and on. It's really a matter of perspective, which is what Caladan is pointing out. If, think about this...if all those who are here illegally (and remember nearly half of them are overstayed visas), had gone through the legal channels, how would that have any impact on what you deem as an economic negative? In other words, is our immigration policy designed in such a way that its purpose is to protect our economic interests? Because our trade policies sure don't. The criticism that Caladan and many others here keep trying to point out is that you and many others here are so myopically focused on one single issue of a larger problem. If we could just magically snap our fingers and make all people that are in this country illlegally disappear, the larger problems with our economic policies will not go away.

I'm 54 years old, Steven, and I've been paying attention most of that time to economic issues, large and small. You don't know the half of it, and it is you and those who support illegals who are myopic, not I. It's been a slow, incremental progression that you don't see how it started, and that's why you can't see where it's going.

If you think the problem is economics, how does supporting illegal immigration change policy to the advantage of Americans and legal immigrants? How does it benefit low income minorities? Point that out to me since you believe you know better in your criticism of me

You claimed that the mere presence of illegal immigrants in this country is effecting many Americans negatively...I'm assuming you meant on economic level, no? So how would changing their status to legal change that? Do you follow me?

I have never claimed that the "mere presence" of illegals in this country affects Americans negatively. I have always addressed the issue from the vantage points of illegal activity, what you have to do to enter, stay and work, and economically, that they take jobs from legals. Do not put words in my mouth.

You try to follow me. I asked you how supporting illegals benefits minorities and low-income Americans. Can you tell me?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I challenge any of you to give me first hand perspective of how immigration and economic policies have affect you personnally between the years 1976-1984. Those are the years I worked in a Congressional post, so I can address them best.

I don't know....why don't you tell us? You haven't answered my question....how would making illegal immigrants legal change their negative impact on our economy as you seem to imply?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

What amazes me, and will continue to amaze me, is people who this doesn't impact negatively cannot see what it does to those who it does impact negatively. To you, insulated as you are, it is a minor matter - pooh pooh. You can afford to champion illegals and turn your back on the problem. I refuse that luxury.

So, one guy, Tom Tancredo, is the source of your accomodation of illegals?

There are a lot of things affecting each and everyone of us negatively, just in terms of governmental policy or lack of... our energy policy, our trade policies....I could go on and on. It's really a matter of perspective, which is what Caladan is pointing out. If, think about this...if all those who are here illegally (and remember nearly half of them are overstayed visas), had gone through the legal channels, how would that have any impact on what you deem as an economic negative? In other words, is our immigration policy designed in such a way that its purpose is to protect our economic interests? Because our trade policies sure don't. The criticism that Caladan and many others here keep trying to point out is that you and many others here are so myopically focused on one single issue of a larger problem. If we could just magically snap our fingers and make all people that are in this country illlegally disappear, the larger problems with our economic policies will not go away.

I'm 54 years old, Steven, and I've been paying attention most of that time to economic issues, large and small. You don't know the half of it, and it is you and those who support illegals who are myopic, not I. It's been a slow, incremental progression that you don't see how it started, and that's why you can't see where it's going.

If you think the problem is economics, how does supporting illegal immigration change policy to the advantage of Americans and legal immigrants? How does it benefit low income minorities? Point that out to me since you believe you know better in your criticism of me

is that your best argument? that they don't know... why do you like to belittle people, always calling them ignorants, closed in their own word, they don't know, they don't know what they're talking about... do you have a degree in everything-ology? or are you based on your 54 years of experience? even if you had that much experience, doesn't give you the right to call someone who disagrees with you an ignorant, or that they don't know what they're talking about

your over-confidence that your point of view is always right, doesn't make you sound that you are very knowledgeable of the topic either, just stuborness to your idea, and, everybody is wrong

Listen to yourself.

I challenge any of you to give me first hand perspective of how immigration and economic policies have affect you personnally between the years 1976-1984. Those are the years I worked in a Congressional post, so I can address them best.

I don't know....why don't you tell us? You haven't answered my question....how would making illegal immigrants legal change their negative impact on our economy as you seem to imply?

It's not my position to make illegals legal. May I remind you that that is YOUR position, so you explain it to me. You think you know so much better, as you have informed me before. Inform me of this.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Caladan 19]

Colorado, where Tancredo is from, has around 150,000 illegals. Around, what, a scant 3% of the population? They may indeed be depressing wages*, but it hardly follows from that either that 1) absent the illegal immigrants, all of those jobs would go to law-abiding Americans (the businesses shutting down is a viable option) or 2) that illegal immigration is a major contributing cause to whatever economic woes are going on.

*This is disputable in some industries. C.'s employers recently fired someone whose papers bounced, but hiring him had no effect on the competitive market wage because he wasn't hired under the table. Construction, child care, and agriculture are intentionally under-regulated industries; if I hire someone to babysit my kids or mow my lawn or paint my house on a short term basis, I'm not required to check for papers. The fudge factor is all in 'short term.'

[one...two...tree 2,762]

It's not my position to make illegals legal. May I remind you that that is YOUR position, so you explain it to me. You think you know so much better, as you have informed me before. Inform me of this.

What is your solution?

[Caladan 19]

Plus, if you make them legal... then whatever benefits would accrue to the economy by deporting them (like higher wages) still accrue. An argument for wanting legal workers says little about what to do about those already here.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Colorado, where Tancredo is from, has around 150,000 illegals. Around, what, a scant 3% of the population? They may indeed be depressing wages*, but it hardly follows from that either that 1) absent the illegal immigrants, all of those jobs would go to law-abiding Americans (the businesses shutting down is a viable option) or 2) that illegal immigration is a major contributing cause to whatever economic woes are going on.

*This is disputable in some industries. C.'s employers recently fired someone whose papers bounced, but hiring him had no effect on the competitive market wage because he wasn't hired under the table. Construction, child care, and agriculture are intentionally under-regulated industries; if I hire someone to babysit my kids or mow my lawn or paint my house on a short term basis, I'm not required to check for papers. The fudge factor is all in 'short term.'

I thought we didn't know how many illegals we have, with them being in the shadows, and all that rhetoric.

BTW, construction, child care and agriculture are not under-regulated industries.

Have you spent any time in Colorado?

Edited December 1, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It's not my position to make illegals legal. May I remind you that that is YOUR position, so you explain it to me. You think you know so much better, as you have informed me before. Inform me of this.

What is your solution?

You must be kidding. You know it all, but ask me for a solution? You posted the article to take a cheap shot. You criticise. Now, put your money where your mouth is - and show more than feelings.

I have pointed out that low-income minority workers, a former liberal favorite, have been displaced by illegals. No comment about the diversion of feelings and compassion for the American underclass to the illegal underclass? I'm so curious as to how this happened.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Colorado, where Tancredo is from, has around 150,000 illegals. Around, what, a scant 3% of the population? They may indeed be depressing wages*, but it hardly follows from that either that 1) absent the illegal immigrants, all of those jobs would go to law-abiding Americans (the businesses shutting down is a viable option) or 2) that illegal immigration is a major contributing cause to whatever economic woes are going on.

*This is disputable in some industries. C.'s employers recently fired someone whose papers bounced, but hiring him had no effect on the competitive market wage because he wasn't hired under the table. Construction, child care, and agriculture are intentionally under-regulated industries; if I hire someone to babysit my kids or mow my lawn or paint my house on a short term basis, I'm not required to check for papers. The fudge factor is all in 'short term.'

The free market drives the need for cheap labor, and the potential 'good' of a free market depends on the free flow of goods and services. To me, it seems that the free market proponents (which I'm assuming Tancredo adheres to) can't see the forest for the trees. The first politician who says he's for protecting American jobs by revamping our trade policies along with our immigration and energy policies will have my full attention. But I've already surrendered to the idea that we cannot suddenly embrace Protectionism...we're too immersed into a global interdependency with foreign markets.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[one...two...tree 2,762]

It's not my position to make illegals legal. May I remind you that that is YOUR position, so you explain it to me. You think you know so much better, as you have informed me before. Inform me of this.

What is your solution?

You must be kidding. You know it all, but ask me for a solution? You posted the article to take a cheap shot. You criticise. Now, put your money where your mouth is - and show more than feelings.

I'm not kidding. I want to know what your solution is to the problem with 12 million illegal immigrants in this country. Certainly, all that time working in politics has given you some diplomatic experience?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I asked first. I put out other issues around this issue that you choose to ignore. You told me you're not myopic, so stop stalling and give it up. I am particularly interested in how you would address those 70 men who lost their jobs to illegals in Louisana after Katrina (see the article I posted). Pretend I am one of them and tell me how legalizing law breakers gives me an advantage in the economic sphere. Come on, you must have thought this day would come.

Waiting . . .

Edited December 1, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[natty bumppo 297]

[GabachaYucateca 0]

A productive and civil discussion as always, I see.