Tom Tancredo Hired Illegal Laborers to Renovate His McMansion

[Sofiyya 1,687]

They're proving identity and residency at least as well as we did. Consider: to get a driver's license C. had to show his passport, a piece of mail in his name, and the receipt from filing AOS or a letter saying he had filed. It's really only the first two that establish who he is and where he lives; the other one is a piece of paper with his name on it.

The valid legal basis for the ITIN is simply needing to file income taxes. It says nothing about the source of the income or the person's legal presence. Foreign investor, new dependent spouse, illegal worker. Frankly, I don't want the IRS enforcing immigration. We have a whole other branch dedicated to that, and I like my privacy.

If they were proving identity and residency, ID fraud would not be a problem. I didn't prove my husband's identity or residency to get his ITIN; I just asked for it and they gave it to me. It was too easy. That there are Americans who do not care that the government facilitates fraud and illegality and are so nonchalant about it is frightening. That there are Americans who has simply given up means that they will get what they deserve.

[Peikko 1,575]

'Illegal lover' doesn't get under my skin, it just doesn't represent my opinion. However, if you can't see me as an individual but have to lump me with an 'ilk' then you wouldn't know that. I am merely trying to point out how you are doing yourself a diservice by your continuned adherance to some pre concieved notions. However, continue to pigeon hole whomsoever and label them according to your grand design. It's senseless, but that's not my problem.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

'Illegal lover' doesn't get under my skin, it just doesn't represent my opinion. However, if you can't see me as an individual but have to lump me with an 'ilk' then you wouldn't know that. I am merely trying to point out how you are doing yourself a diservice by your continuned adherance to some pre concieved notions. However, continue to pigeon hole whomsoever and label them according to your grand design. It's senseless, but that's not my problem.

I engage you on the ground you stand. You came here spouting off about things you had no idea about. You're like someone who sits down next to someone they don't know and just starts ripping a position because they ASSume that no one will disagree with them. When I disagreed with you and asked you to give us some information supporting your accusations, you folded.

The fact is, from observation, you are only comfortable when not challenged about your position. When challenged, you withdraw. I suggest that you spend some time getting some meat on the bones of your opinions. That is advice several of you could benefit from.

If I listed my questions again, will they again be ignored, as before?

PS, I have mentioned this before, the tired tactic of character assassination when faced with opposition you have no answer for. The topic falls away and you go on attack. I don't let this bother me because it is SO predictable. It says more about you than it does about me.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Peikko 1,575]

Actually, you don't. You throw around these labels and expect people to defend the position attached to the labels. You didn't do anything to change my opinion, nor to change the opinion I expressed re Mr Tancredo. I have never attached any great importance to my opinion on this matter, so I am not particulary worried if I am proved wrong. You however seem obsessed by being right at the expense of reason. So be it. That's fine, I am not going to lose any sleep over that one. It is entertaining to watch though.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Actually, you don't. You throw around these labels and expect people to defend the position attached to the labels. You didn't do anything to change my opinion, nor to change the opinion I expressed re Mr Tancredo. I have never attached any great importance to my opinion on this matter, so I am not particulary worried if I am proved wrong. You however seem obsessed by being right at the expense of reason. So be it. That's fine, I am not going to lose any sleep over that one. It is entertaining to watch though.

In your first post on this thread, you called Tancredo a hypocrite ( a label) and berated him for getting cheap goods. When I asked you to give us background on what construction would cost for what he got, you had no answer. When I asked you what methods are in place for an individual to check a worker's status, you could not answer.

Don't fall back on accusations. You have already shown that you throw those around enough to make them meaningless, including the ones you have hurled at me.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Peikko 1,575]

Oh, by the way, telling you that I don't hold the opinions that you think I hold is not a character assasination. I haven't said anything about what I might think of you as a person. However, if you percieve that as some kind of personal attack that's not really something I can do anything about.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Oh, by the way, telling you that I don't hold the opinions that you think I hold is not a character assasination. I haven't said anything about what I might think of you as a person. However, if you percieve that as some kind of personal attack that's not really something I can do anything about.

(Purple_Hibiscus @ Dec 2 2007, 02:01 PM)

The problem with GEG, and others like her is that they place people into little pigeon holes and expect these people to defend opinions that they don't hold. They then get increasingly beligerant when these people refuse to co operate and this non co operation is seen by them as some kind of victory.

Unless you can engage people on the positions they actually hold, rather than positions that you expect them to hold because you have labelled them with the 'illegal alien lover, bleeding heart liberal' brush it's all quite meaningless.

People on here actually try really hard to make sense of things GEG says, for which I give them a great deal of credit because she never returns the favour.

Not that this lowers my self-esteem, but it is a criticism of me as a person, not about my opinions, the CONTENT of which you fail to engage, preferring to attack the delivery. It would be a a brave new world if what I actually say was what is commented on rather than how it makes someone feel.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Peikko 1,575]

It's really very simple, I made an assessment of what I believe happened with this guy. It was a personal opinion and I still do think it's more than likely that he is a hypocrite. There is nothing more to it, I don't have to justify my opinion to you, or anyone else but I did attempt to explain why I arrived at my opinion. If that's not good enough for you, well too bad.

If you feel that I am hurling accusations willy nilly, please feel free to ignore me.

Rubbish, I have simply said that you persistantly refuse to engage me on what I am saying, preferring to engage me on what you think I should be saying based on your pre concieved ideas as to what I should be thinking based on your personal labelling system. That is hardly an attack on your person. However, again, if you feel that it is, then again, there is very little I can do to change that.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

'Illegal lover' doesn't get under my skin, it just doesn't represent my opinion.

Not that I really need to point this out - but it doesn't represent my opinion either.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It's really very simple, I made an assessment of what I believe happened with this guy. It was a personal opinion and I still do think it's more than likely that he is a hypocrite. There is nothing more to it, I don't have to justify my opinion to you, or anyone else but I did attempt to explain why I arrived at my opinion. If that's not good enough for you, well too bad.

If you feel that I am hurling accusations willy nilly, please feel free to ignore me.

Rubbish, I have simply said that you persistantly refuse to engage me on what I am saying, preferring to engage me on what you think I should be saying based on your pre concieved ideas as to what I should be thinking based on your personal labelling system. That is hardly an attack on your person. However, again, if you feel that it is, then again, there is very little I can do to change that.

I absolutely engaged you on what you said. That is why I knew what to ask you, and I asked you pointed questions about what you said. There were no assumptions or preconceived notions in my remarks, but I did address your assumptions. I realize that you need to accuse me now, since youhad no answers before, but any objective reading of our early exchange would not see preconceived notions from me toward you, but they sure were flowing from you.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

'Illegal lover' doesn't get under my skin, it just doesn't represent my opinion.

Not that I really need to point this out - but it doesn't represent my opinion either.

I don't make this stuff up. I read what is said and respond to it. The only thing you have said that tells me that you are not pro-illegal is "I'm not pro-illegal". Everything else you've said indicates that you are. I'll look for something different in the future to let me know what you really mean. Yet, no one has that wishy washy problem with my position. It is clear as day.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Perhaps you might put 2 + 2 together and realise that being rude, condescending and abrasive to people (which you did off that bat actually) doesn't exactly inspire people to be accommodating to you in return. But then again - you've said in previous threads that you don't care what anyone says on these forums, or indeed how your attitude is perceived by others, so why start now?

'Illegal lover' doesn't get under my skin, it just doesn't represent my opinion.

Not that I really need to point this out - but it doesn't represent my opinion either.

I don't make this stuff up. I read what is said and respond to it. The only thing you have said that tells me that you are not pro-illegal is "I'm not pro-illegal". Everything else you've said indicates that you are. I'll look for something different in the future to let me know what you really mean. Yet, no one has that wishy washy problem with my position. It is clear as day.

Like what?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Perhaps you might put 2 + 2 together and realise that being rude, condescending and abrasive to people (which you did off that bat actually) doesn't exactly inspire people to be accommodating to you in return. But then again - you've said in previous threads that you don't care what anyone says on these forums, or indeed how your attitude is perceived by others, so why start now?

Maybe you will put 2+2 together and read the same into your own posts. It's there, but, see, like everyone else, you think of yourself as better than that. I do too.

Pay attention to content, 6. You are fixated on what you perceive to be the negative. Then, you spend so much time complaining about that and instructing people how to make YOU comfortable that you become boring and insignificant to the discussion. Start now. You can change.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Perhaps you might put 2 + 2 together and realise that being rude, condescending and abrasive to people (which you did off that bat actually) doesn't exactly inspire people to be accommodating to you in return. But then again - you've said in previous threads that you don't care what anyone says on these forums, or indeed how your attitude is perceived by others, so why start now?

'Illegal lover' doesn't get under my skin, it just doesn't represent my opinion.

Not that I really need to point this out - but it doesn't represent my opinion either.

I don't make this stuff up. I read what is said and respond to it. The only thing you have said that tells me that you are not pro-illegal is "I'm not pro-illegal". Everything else you've said indicates that you are. I'll look for something different in the future to let me know what you really mean. Yet, no one has that wishy washy problem with my position. It is clear as day.

Like what?

Like being so miltoast that you say nothing, and wasting time complaining about people not being nice to you. It doesn't make for pithy exchanges. Don't you notice that you get more mileage from complaining than you do from commenting? I do.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Green eyed girl you my as well give up! They are to invested in the koolaid.

Of course you know you gotten them when they reroute their comments! Like "if you werent so abbrasive" then things would be different. Its how they live. Shakey ground is their home. floppin around like a fish that just got caught.

I totally understand your point and they do to.

Edited December 2, 2007 by CarolsMarc