Tom Tancredo Hired Illegal Laborers to Renovate His McMansion

[Fandango 1,439]

Lisa

My point was more that I have no vested interest in the truth than the truth doesn't matter. I can only speculate as to why illegal aliens were engaged on his project. Common sense tells me that their is more chance that this was because he chose to pay less regardless of the legal status of his contractor's employees than that there is a conspiracy going on. Clearly, if it becomes evident that he is the victim of a conspiracy I am wrong in my conclusions.

Ahh ok then.....but as I said before, there could be numerous scenarios where T paid a discounted rate yet there was a legitimate reason (that he thought) for doing so.

It was a little naughty of you to miss of the latter part off my statement, "I simply find politicians a hapless lot who are more often than not caught with their pants down." Context is everything.

Naughty? Moi?

[Peikko 1,575]

Fair enough, there are other possible scenarios, however, human nature being what it is, my opinion is that he was pulling a fast one. Not that it matters much, the sleaze game can be applied to any and all the candidates and doesn't really get one much further forward as regards who one would or should vote for. Not that I can vote mind you.

[Fandango 1,439]

Fair enough, there are other possible scenarios, however, human nature being what it is, my opinion is that he was pulling a fast one. Not that it matters much, the sleaze game can be applied to any and all the candidates and doesn't really get one much further forward as regards who one would or should vote for. Not that I can vote mind you.

This is why I think that the article was poorly written, and written with an obvious bias....it invites nothing but speculation and there's very little research done.

If it weren't for the fact that I'm here at my office alone on a Sunday for all these hours with nothing else to do, I wouldn't even usually bother with this, cos it's clear what a puff piece it is.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Fair enough, there are other possible scenarios, however, human nature being what it is, my opinion is that he was pulling a fast one. Not that it matters much, the sleaze game can be applied to any and all the candidates and doesn't really get one much further forward as regards who one would or should vote for. Not that I can vote mind you.

This is why I think that the article was poorly written, and written with an obvious bias....it invites nothing but speculation and there's very little research done.

If it weren't for the fact that I'm here at my office alone on a Sunday for all these hours with nothing else to do, I wouldn't even usually bother with this, cos it's clear what a puff piece it is.

Care to point out the puff? (meaning: that which makes it something about nothing)

[GaryC 7]

Fair enough, there are other possible scenarios, however, human nature being what it is, my opinion is that he was pulling a fast one. Not that it matters much, the sleaze game can be applied to any and all the candidates and doesn't really get one much further forward as regards who one would or should vote for. Not that I can vote mind you.

It is also possible, if not likely, that he wasn't even around when the work was done and the arraignments were made by someone else. He should be in D.C. most of the time.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

Wow! I am speaking to a colleague of mine who worked in the welfare office. And boy is he telling me how it all works, and I'm getting sooo frickin angry!

He told me he also worked for a tax preparation firm for a bit....the supervisor of a group of illegals would come in with a truckload of illegal workers. The workers would all have ss#s. He said one guy came in, gave a social, was claiming 5 children, and wound up paying $700 throughout the year in taxes. He said the guy qualified for the earned income credit, then the guy gave him receipts from a federally approved daycare, so he got the child care credit. The RETURN amounted to $3,800. My colleague, in passing, asked the guy where the guy's kids went to school, and the guy rattled off a school in Mexico. My colleague then told the guy that he couldn't get the credits for the kids if they lived in Mexico....and readjusted the return which then turned out to him owing $100. The guy got up, and actually went to another location of the franchise and got his $3800 credit, and my colleague got chewed out by the supervisor, as it was not his place to verify any information, and they were only in the biz of doing the actual return.

Whoa.

i'm not surprised. that fact has been brought up time and time again in vj, yet some chose to ignore it. "they are paying taxes" indeed

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I don't know when or at what point I went down in the column of supporters of our out-of-balance trade policies. But even with those, illegal immigration doesn't necessarily and inevitably follow. Else, all industrialized countries would have that very issue to deal with. And I don't think that's quite the case. Most certainly not anywhere near to the extend we do. So if your argument is that one evil necessitates the other, it simply doesn't hold water.

I didn't think you were, Reinhard...as neither am I. The EU has provisions within their trade policies which are much more fair to all the players than what we have. Secondly, within the EU it is much easier for people to travel from country to country, including finding work.

The EU internally, sure. But not with the rest of the world. Heavily subsidized agricultural products from the EU flood African markets putting farmers there out of work each and every day. It's all the same. If you think that the EU deals any fairer with the rest of the global market than the US, you're seriously kidding yourself.

And just so we're clear, people traveling and working within the EU member states is perfectly legal. There aren't many actual immigration barriers within the EU today. When you go back to the origins of the EU and follow it's evolution, you will find that the barriers came down (as far as the original member states are concerned) and continue to come down (in regards to the more recent additions) as the economic situation between those member states leveled off enough to make this a responsible, controlled and mutually beneficial move. That's what is missing in the US.

[Fandango 1,439]

Steven, I use 'puff' as to denote something big with nothing inside to back it up. And imo, this is the very definition of puff...so thanks for the vocab lesson, but it was unnecessary...

By Max Blumenthal, AlterNet

When Republican Representative Tom Tancredo isn’t railing against the “scourge†of illegal immigration on the presidential campaign trail, he relaxes in the 1053 square foot basement recreation room of his Littleton, Colorado McMansion. (OTT, and irrelevant) There, he and his family can rack up a game of billiards on their tournament size pool table, play pinball, or enjoy their favorite movies in the terraced seating area of a home theater system. (OTT and irrelevant) Tancredo, who dodged the draft during the Vietnam War by producing evidence that he suffered from mentally illnesses, especially likes entertaining his buddies with classic war movies. (irrelevant)

“We have friends over and I have now shown Pearl Harbor about six times,†Tancredo boasted to the Rocky Mountain News about his 102-inch television. (irrelevant) “But I mainly just show the attack scene because the sound is so good.†(irrelevant)

When Tancredo hired a construction crew to transform his drab basement into a high-tech pleasure den in October 2001, however, he did not express concern that only two of its members spoke English.(according to whom? Where is the contractor him/herself? Let alone, why's the basement need to be described as 'drab' and then subsequently a 'pleasure den'? Seriously, why? He had work done. That simple. Also, was T req'd to speak to each member of the crew? Did T know there were only two English speakers there? Furthermore, there are many US citizens & GC holders that do not speak English...is this author implying that any non-English speaking person is illegal???) Nor did he bother to check the workers’ documentation to see if they were legal residents of the United States. (Where is the contractor him/herself? What did (s)he say about Tancredo? Did Tancredo ask questions? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't...maybe he didn't know. What is the law in regards to requiring subcontractorsl to prove status? Was Tancredo even THERE?)Had Tancredo done so, he would have learned that most of the crew consisted of undocumented immigrants, or “criminal aliens†as he likes to call them. (If Tancredo was unaware and did take measures to verify, this is not his fault, and infact, validates his argument. Is it lawful to request documentation? And is it possible he could have asked, and was lied to? Did the contractor show him any false documentation? Again, was T even THERE?)Instead, Tancredo paid the crew $60,000 for its labor and waited innocently for the completion of his elaborate entertainment complex. (How much is the going rate across the board for a job of this nature? Did Tancredo think he effectively haggled the price down, if in fact is is lower than the rest? Is it grossly lower? Could the contractor have justified the low price? Or if it was going rate, what steps is T guilty for not doing?)

During the renovation process, two illegal workers hired by Tancredo were alerted to his reputation for immigrant bashing. (Again, were they directly hired, or via a contractor who may or may not have justified their work eligibility)They went straight to the Denver Post to complain. Tancredo “doesn't want us here, but he'll take advantage of our sweat and our labor,†one of the workers complained to the Post on September 19, 2002. “It's just not right.†(The author still hasn't proven that steps weren't taken by T to validate the workers.)

The Post report momentarily threw Tancredo on the defensive. (Is that a crime? lol I think anyone under this kind of issue, and being a politician, would be on the defensive. Still doesn't say anything.)In a fiery speech soon after the story’s publication, Tancredo blamed his foibles on the INS. (Whose responsibility is it to verify?)“I haven't the foggiest idea how many people I may have hired in the past as taxi drivers, as waiters, waitresses, home improvement people,†he boomed from the House floor. ('Boomed'?)“I haven't the foggiest idea how many of those people may have been here illegally, and it is not my job to ask them.†(Is that correct or incorrect? )Then defiance gave way to vitriol as the congressman dubbed undocumented immigrants, “the face of murder.†(Why was his stance, up until this statement, considered 'defiance'? Defiance of whom, exactly? Or is this just an effort to paint him as a petulant child?)

Only days before the Post’s story appeared, Tancredo had personally reported an honor student profiled in the Denver Post to the INS because the 14-year-old was not a legal resident of the United States. (Ok, so? However, might this be related? Could this somehow be connected as a 'set up' in retaliation?)The stunt forced the boy’s family to go into hiding. (Why was it a 'stunt'? If the author is going to mention this, where are the details leading up to this accusation?)Fortunately for Tancredo, the ensuing revelations of his hiring of illegal labor fell below the radar of the national media, allowing his anti-immigrant crusade to proceed unabated. (Yet, they surface all these years later, and without adequate details. But why exactly did they 'fall below the radar? Because there's nothing of substance? Because there are no details, no proof that he was negligent in any way?)

Tancredo proceeded to organize over 90 anti-immigration House members into an informal but powerful caucus that has effectively prevented any non-enforcement related immigration legislation from reaching the President’s desk. (Ok, and?)His Team America PAC, which is chaired by right-wing pundit Bay Buchanan, has donated tens of thousands of dollars this election cycle to nativist candidates who hope to fill Tancredo’s caucus with new blood when he retires next year. (Ok, and?) Down on the border, Tancredo announced his support for the Minutemen, providing the anti-immigrant militia with a veneer of respectability while its pistol-packing members hunt for brown-skinned evildoers. (Is that 'brown skinned evildoers' a direct quote of T's, or this author taking horrible license to pack this article with as much emotional negativity to get a negative response of support against T?)

http://alternet.org/rights/69391/

But since you asked, there's the puff.

Edited December 2, 2007 by LisaD

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Around here, most illegal immigrants try to stay under the radar...and simply have the taxes taken out of their paychecks and never claim anything.

What are these sympathetic, law-abidng folks using for SSNs?

They can use an ITIN, which allows them to file taxes but accrue none of the other SS# benefits.

An ITIN? The IRS ceased to issue ITIN's unless you had cause to request one and could back that up with documents. I surely remember the pain in the ####### it was to get that ITIN for my legally present spouse that wasn't yet eligible for a SSN so we could file our joint tax return. On what lawful basis does an illegal obtain an ITIN there days?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The EU internally, sure. But not with the rest of the world. Heavily subsidized agricultural products from the EU flood African markets putting farmers there out of work each and every day. It's all the same. If you think that the EU deals any fairer with the rest of the global market than the US, you're seriously kidding yourself.

And just so we're clear, people traveling and working within the EU member states is perfectly legal. There aren't many actual immigration barriers within the EU today. When you go back to the origins of the EU and follow it's evolution, you will find that the barriers came down (as far as the original member states are concerned) and continue to come down (in regards to the more recent additions) as the economic situation between those member states leveled off enough to make this a responsible, controlled and mutually beneficial move. That's what is missing in the US.

That is disheartening to hear about the African market being flooded by heavily subsidized exports from the EU. From my understanding, the EU has provisions that limit or prevent the importation of goods that have been subsidized.

Still, I think and hope that you can see the potential of having a similar economic policy with our neighboring countries as a long term solution to many of our economic problems, including illegal immigration.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The EU internally, sure. But not with the rest of the world. Heavily subsidized agricultural products from the EU flood African markets putting farmers there out of work each and every day. It's all the same. If you think that the EU deals any fairer with the rest of the global market than the US, you're seriously kidding yourself.

And just so we're clear, people traveling and working within the EU member states is perfectly legal. There aren't many actual immigration barriers within the EU today. When you go back to the origins of the EU and follow it's evolution, you will find that the barriers came down (as far as the original member states are concerned) and continue to come down (in regards to the more recent additions) as the economic situation between those member states leveled off enough to make this a responsible, controlled and mutually beneficial move. That's what is missing in the US.

That is disheartening to hear about the African market being flooded by heavily subsidized exports from the EU. From my understanding, the EU has provisions that limit or prevent the importation of goods that have been subsidized.

Still, I think and hope that you can see the potential of having a similar economic policy with our neighboring countries as a long term solution to many of our economic problems, including illegal immigration.

Yes, similar. I'd like that. A lot. But that is not at all what we're doing. And it's not at all what you're advocating. Rather than pushing and supporting our neighbor to the south to come up to par (and believe me there's been a lot of pushing mainly from Germany, France and Holland when it came time for the poorer western European countries such as Spain and Portugal to bring their economies within reasonable range of those of the other western European nations), we're allowing them to simply dump their socioeconomic issues on us. That's not a policy, that's #######. And it's not ever going to move us even one step closer to border-free Americas.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Yes, similar. I'd like that. A lot. But that is not at all what we're doing. And it's not at all what you're advocating. Rather than pushing and supporting our neighbor to the south to come up to par (and believe me there's been a lot of pushing mainly from Germany, France and Holland when it came time for the poorer western European countries such as Spain and Portugal to bring their economies within reasonable range of those of the other western European nations), we're allowing them to simply dump their socioeconomic issues on us. That's not a policy, that's #######. And it's not ever going to move us even one step closer to border-free Americas.

Well here's where were going back to an argument I've made many times before. Like the EU dumping subsidized imports on the African Market, the U.S. has done the same thing to Mexico. We sit around and point fingers all day, but I'm saying we've got to get beyond approaching our illegal immigration problem as one of enforcement (not saying we shouldn't have any), and focus on more broader solutions that will produce economic growth and sustainability for us as well as our neighboring countries. The promise of the free market is that through true competition, everybody wins. I'm willing to give that a shot but we haven't done that yet.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The EU internally, sure. But not with the rest of the world. Heavily subsidized agricultural products from the EU flood African markets putting farmers there out of work each and every day. It's all the same. If you think that the EU deals any fairer with the rest of the global market than the US, you're seriously kidding yourself.

Oh yes - the Common Agricultural Policy...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yes, similar. I'd like that. A lot. But that is not at all what we're doing. And it's not at all what you're advocating. Rather than pushing and supporting our neighbor to the south to come up to par (and believe me there's been a lot of pushing mainly from Germany, France and Holland when it came time for the poorer western European countries such as Spain and Portugal to bring their economies within reasonable range of those of the other western European nations), we're allowing them to simply dump their socioeconomic issues on us. That's not a policy, that's #######. And it's not ever going to move us even one step closer to border-free Americas.

Well here's where were going back to an argument I've made many times before. Like the EU dumping subsidized imports on the African Market, the U.S. has done the same thing to Mexico. We sit around and point fingers all day, but I'm saying we've got to get beyond approaching our illegal immigration problem as one of enforcement (not saying we shouldn't have any), and focus on more broader solutions that will produce economic growth and sustainability for us as well as our neighboring countries. The promise of the free market is that through true competition, everybody wins. I'm willing to give that a shot but we haven't done that yet.

There's also a big debate going on in Europe about illegal immigration mostly from eastern europe, north africa and even places like Iraq. We're not necessarily any better at keeping a handle on it than the US; we just have more bureaucratic red tape.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The problem with GEG, and others like her is that they place people into little pigeon holes and expect these people to defend opinions that they don't hold. They then get increasingly beligerant when these people refuse to co operate and this non co operation is seen by them as some kind of victory.

Unless you can engage people on the positions they actually hold, rather than positions that you expect them to hold because you have labelled them with the 'illegal alien lover, bleeding heart liberal' brush it's all quite meaningless.

People on here actually try really hard to make sense of things GEG says, for which I give them a great deal of credit because she never returns the favour.

PH, thank you! You made me laugh. You did nothing to substantively engage anyone in this debate, You hurled accusations which you later had to admit you had no basis for making. You have pigeoned holed me, just as steven ALWAYS does.

You do exactly what you complain about others doing. You do it, number 6 does it, Steven does it. The problem with you guys is that you excuse yourselves from it, go into denial, and continue to point fingers. There is no real way to communicate with you without doing this because you focus on the way a message is delivered from someone else, not the content. Then you deliver your points the same way you complain about.

I'm thrilled to hear that "illegal lover" gets the goat of the three of you. That means it hits a chord. I came up with it after reading countless thread where the positions taken by the usual suspects were advocating open borders and illegal immigration. Steven has put me into a bag so many times, referring to "your ilk" and calling me a Republican, that I was for the WTO and NAFTA, and NO ONE criticizes him for that. You are so transparent. Now you say, oh, we're not really for illegals. BS, but if I have forced you to back off of that strident position, then I have done what needed to be done.

You pat yourselves on the back, but got upset when I proclaimed victory. Nothing I say comes out of a vacuum. You just refuse to consider that.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Green-eyed girl