How do you know if something's halal?

[aisha kandisha 0]

Gelatin can be from a slew of different sources and can be labeled kosher even if it's from pigs.

Then it is not kosher.

Actually it can be. That's why a kosher mark can be deceiving. Different koshering unions have different rules about what constitutes kosher. For the record I have spent numerous years working in food plants. Many were kosher facilities - I've spent countless hours with rabbis discussing these things because part of my job was coming up with formulations that can be acceptable to different markets.

There are certain bodies that will allow gelatin from pigs to be deemed kosher. Call them liberal minded, call them wrong, but they do exist.

The logic behind it is two fold. First, in order to get a purified gelatin from an animal source there are many steps including at least one that makes the inprocess material non-edible. Part of the logic that the resulting gelatin is kosher is that the step where the material in no longer a food becomes the new starting point of sourcing. It's something similar to this: Pig-hooves-slurry [totally can't be kosher to this point because it is clearly porcine] - Slurry to chemical brew that is non-edible and now no longer considered a food [grey area - is it still pig related or is it now a "new" entity] - Chemical brew to purified gelatin [can be kosher because the start point was a non-food chemical slurry]. The second argument is that gelatin ends up being a purified protein that has no characteristics of it's source - would a molecule of water that was extracted from an open sewer be any different than a molecule of water from a mountain fed stream?

There is a ton of debate about this. A ton - hundreds of pages of arguments and such according to the rabbis I've spoken to.

This is what my understanding has been as well. There is a minority thought (used to be larger) that basically said the transformation process rendered it non-pig and therefore able to be certified as Kosher. This was the case some years back with the OK certification of Jell-O gelatin (or at least some flavors, not sure if this was only food service packages) which has been withdrawn. I don't think any of the major kashrus agencies accept non-Kosher sources, but it was an issue at one time, and probably could still be an issue if the certification is not done by a major group.

[aisha kandisha 0]

Too late to edit. I reread my post and it isn't correct.

What happened with the Jell-O OK certification was not that they went along with the no longer pig theory but just a mistake in general which they corrected. Nonetheless, there are (were) minority groups who would supported the no longer pig theory.

[Nasturtium 500]

One group says eating meat (that Muslims can eat) from ahlal kitab is allowed even though they were not slaghtered and the other group says Muslims can only eat, if the meat was slaughterd and the name of the God is pronounced before the animal was slaughtered.

Mu husband falls into the first group. He says he knows in Jordan even Muslims don't follow all teh rules, so he sees no difference between eating somehting al-kitab from eating from a muslim at home. He obviously does not break the laws of permissable and impermissable as far as pork, etc. This is regarding chicken actually, as it's the only thing he eats except fish (well and eggs which don't count in this argument AFAIK) We buy chicken from a small family who sell at the farmer's market. They are christian, and they explained how they kill it and invited us to come and see where the chickens lived. They even invited us to the WHOLE process, but I didn't want to go see the chickens int he first place (as it's way too sad), so we declined. in our area, there isn't halal or kosher really. Nothing in teh store is sold as such-- we're just too small town and too "Southern" (ie BBQ culture). So this is as close as one could get in this area without going fish-only. It's obviously meant for the "organic" market, but it works for us!

[Nasturtium 500]

Too late to edit. I reread my post and it isn't correct.

What happened with the Jell-O OK certification was not that they went along with the no longer pig theory but just a mistake in general which they corrected. Nonetheless, there are (were) minority groups who would supported the no longer pig theory.

That's my understanding as well... although you do get deceptive marketing on the side of companies like Kraft which swear certified kosher products but then fine print-- it's all except Jello.

I think it's best just to get to know your food! It makes sense even from a health-perspective, beyond even a religious perspective. Lots of things are in our food now which many people are trying to be wary of, including high-fructose corn syrup.

[aisha kandisha 0]

I think it's best just to get to know your food! It makes sense even from a health-perspective, beyond even a religious perspective. Lots of things are in our food now which many people are trying to be wary of, including high-fructose corn syrup.

I agree. I admire your diligence and discipline. It is something I would like to incorporate into my life but admittedly have not put in the necessary effort. Perhaps it is time to make a step-by-step plan instead of trying to tackle many changes at once, which seems overwhelming.

[Nasturtium 500]

I agree. I admire your diligence and discipline. It is something I would like to incorporate into my life but admittedly have not put in the necessary effort. Perhaps it is time to make a step-by-step plan instead of trying to tackle many changes at once, which seems overwhelming.

Yep! That's basically how I started, and I admit I don't stick 100% to it. When I was little, my parents gardened and we ate a lot of our own food in season. Then my dad went on a low-cholesteral diet and I did too basically, as did my mom. So I started from a certain ammount of modified diet to begin with. My mom was really into making things from scratch and into doing big batches of things for the 3 of us. Sometimes, depending on your lifestyle restrictions, you can take a day and make something HUGE like your own veggie lasagna-- you may be using a processed sauce or processed pasta, or maybe not... but it's generally better than buying totally pre-packaged. You can eat this giant thing for lunch all week if you freeze it into portions, or even just refridgerate it if you know it won't last due to consumption. Sometimes it's good to start with a small plan, like "on my days off, I am going to cook from fresh ingredients," or even a "on Saturday I'm going to make a meal from scratch." I don't know what will work for you, but these are some things which worked for me. I ended up being forced to drop most processed foods when my gall bladder decided it had grown up low-cholesterol and was going to stay that way, never having consumed animal fat or much oil before, and went into a rebellion! It was a good motivator and I switched really quick to avoid medical problems... but... I had had it in mind for some time that I wanted to change.

My husband and I agree that we want to keep a more healthy diet, and we also want to keep the potential and hypothetical children we will have on it as well. We're both big into growing food crops and gardening, so it also goes in hand with some things we want to teach the kids.

If you have any space at all, including just a windowsill that gets east, west, or south sun, I would recommend growing somehting yourself-- it's one less ingredient you wonder about and one more you know exactly where it came from