Missouri State removes Christmas tree over religious complaint

[Scott & Lai 12]

SPRINGFIELD | Missouri State University took down a 20-foot Christmas tree after a diversity official reported a complaint about insensitivity to other religions.

As a result, Missouri State officials will meet Friday to discuss appropriate holiday decorations at the state’s second-largest university.

The artificial tree was taken down Monday after Lorene Stone, dean of the College of Humanities and Public Affairs, was told by the co-chair of the president’s diversity commission that a Jewish faculty member said the tree showed “a lack of sensitivity” to those of other religions.

Courts have ruled that Christmas trees are secular symbols if they do not bear religious decorations, such as a cross, said Jana Estergard, head of the school’s Office of Equity and Diversity.

Estergard returned from vacation Wednesday and said she wasn’t aware of the issue, nor had anyone complained to her about the tree.

“The tree is not endorsing Christianity,” she said.

Stone, who put the tree up the day before Thanksgiving, said she didn’t use any religious symbols on it.

“I tried to make it as secular as possible. It had ribbons, bows and fake icicles on it,” she said, adding that she’s very frustrated over the issue. The tree now sits in three pieces in a box in her office.

Stone said Jewish faculty members were invited to put up a menorah display but declined, telling Stone they were worried the display would be stolen.

Diversity commission co-chair Chris Craig said he thought Stone did the right thing by taking the tree down and thinks something positive will come from the Friday meeting.

“This is not about a legal issues. It’s about being more inclusive,” Craig said.

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Does anyone else find the concept of a "diversity official" a bit disturbing?

Christmas is a secular holiday.

It is? So, what exactly is it that my church celebrates on Christmas Eve and Christmas Morning? Our choir must be learning all these very religious songs for nothing....

You know god dalm well that when they put that on the dollar they were not thinking about the Muslin God. The official moto of the USA is' "In God we trust" and again this nothing to do with Islam.

It's the same God, by the way. It's also the same as the Jewish God!

Not exactly...Christianity and Islam are both monotheistic, but to say they believe in the same God ignores what they each teach about God and Jesus.

A lot of what is now considered Christmas traditions have slowly been incorporated into the holiday celebrations over many many years. Just because they are part of Christmas, doesn't mean they automatically have a religious connotation. Santa Claus anyone?

I am a Christian, and there are only two things that I ascribe any "religious" symbolism to that are part of the Christmas celebration. One is the Advent Wreath, and the other is the Nativity. Oh, and Christmas carols, but that's a bit of a different story really. Everything else -- the lights, the gifts, the tree, and so on and so on -- are part of the traditions and decorations of the holiday for me, nothing more. For me, Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ first and foremost, and a special family holiday as well. So count me amongst the stupid few who sees most of what goes on during Christmas as nothing really to do with what I feel the meaning of Christmas is.

Actually, Sant Claus is derived from Saint Nicholas, a real person, who was Bishop of Myra (in what is now Turkey) in the fourth century.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think it's reasonable to believe that if a particular religion believes in monotheism, then they are in effect worshipping the one and only God that all monotheists also worship. I think that's a given, regardless of how we think we should worship that God.

[jundp 191]

I'm sure someone's going to jump on me and say that Christmas trees weren't originally about Christmas at all and were nicked from pagan Yule celebrations, but I say if Christianity was happy enough to encorporate a pagan ritual into their festivities, why can't other religions today be as tolerant, and just live and let live?

Well, as a Christian here, I must say that we pretty much incorporated as many pagan festivals and holidays as possible into our celebrations....Yule trees and bunnies are just the tip of the iceberg...

Where is it written that we can't celebrate on public property? The separation of church and state only means the government cant mandate a religion.

True story. Our money also says "In God we trust." Are people going to stop spending it?

Look at it like this, it's called a CHRISTMAS tree. Christmas is a christian holiday. So, a Christmas tree is inherently Christian. Thus you are putting christianity into a public building, which is illegal. It's very simple.

Would you be happy if you walked into your local courthouse and found a 20 foot high pentagram in the lobby? Or a large egyptian statue with an erect #######? I highly doubt it. So, if I can't put a pentagram there, you shouldn't be able to put christian symbols.

It's not illegal at all.

And yes, I would.

Why call them CHRISTMAS trees if they have no association with the Christmas holiday (holy day)? Few are stupid enough to believe that Christmas decorations have nothing to do with Christmas and that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ.

Following that line of thinking, perhaps we should start calling the Easter Bunny the Chocolate-Bearing Non-Resurrection Rodent to avoid confusion. After all, people clearly associate the critter with the empty tomb. It causes a fuss every year in my neighborhood.

And forever more will Easter Bunny bear this title...

A lot of what is now considered Christmas traditions have slowly been incorporated into the holiday celebrations over many many years. Just because they are part of Christmas, doesn't mean they automatically have a religious connotation. Santa Claus anyone?

I am a Christian, and there are only two things that I ascribe any "religious" symbolism to that are part of the Christmas celebration. One is the Advent Wreath, and the other is the Nativity. Oh, and Christmas carols, but that's a bit of a different story really. Everything else -- the lights, the gifts, the tree, and so on and so on -- are part of the traditions and decorations of the holiday for me, nothing more. For me, Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ first and foremost, and a special family holiday as well. So count me amongst the stupid few who sees most of what goes on during Christmas as nothing really to do with what I feel the meaning of Christmas is.

I agree. I associate the Advent Wreath and the creche with Christianity.

And I know Santa is based on St. Nicholas, but the American version of Santa with his red suit and his jolly smile is actually a product of the Coca Cola Company's advertising. Long live American advertising propaganda.

[Scott & Lai 12]

I think it's reasonable to believe that if a particular religion believes in monotheism, then they are in effect worshipping the one and only God that all monotheists also worship. I think that's a given, regardless of how we think we should worship that God.

Christians believe that God revealed Himself to be one God but three Persons, and that Jesus is the 2nd Person in the flesh, and therefore God. Islam explicitly rejects this. The God who claimed these things about Himself cannot be the same God as the one who did not make such claims, and in fact denied them.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think it's reasonable to believe that if a particular religion believes in monotheism, then they are in effect worshipping the one and only God that all monotheists also worship. I think that's a given, regardless of how we think we should worship that God.

Christians believe that God revealed Himself to be one God but three Persons, and that Jesus is the 2nd Person in the flesh, and therefore God. Islam explicitly rejects this. The God who claimed these things about Himself cannot be the same God as the one who did not make such claims, and in fact denied them.

I understand, but Jehovah's Witness also reject the Holy Trinity. I'm just saying that logically speaking, all monotheistic religions believe in a one true God. It would be extraneous to say to another monotheist that your one true God is DIFFFERENT from their one true God.

[Scott & Lai 12]

I think it's reasonable to believe that if a particular religion believes in monotheism, then they are in effect worshipping the one and only God that all monotheists also worship. I think that's a given, regardless of how we think we should worship that God.

Christians believe that God revealed Himself to be one God but three Persons, and that Jesus is the 2nd Person in the flesh, and therefore God. Islam explicitly rejects this. The God who claimed these things about Himself cannot be the same God as the one who did not make such claims, and in fact denied them.

I understand, but Jehovah's Witness also reject the Holy Trinity. I'm just saying that logically speaking, all monotheistic religions believe in a one true God. It would be extraneous to say to another monotheist that your one true God is DIFFFERENT from their one true God.

The question is which "one true God" is the one who actually IS. In the example I gave, both views of the one true God cannot be true, they are mutually exclusive. Either one or the other is true, or neither is true.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Why call them CHRISTMAS trees if they have no association with the Christmas holiday (holy day)? Few are stupid enough to believe that Christmas decorations have nothing to do with Christmas and that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ.

Following that line of thinking, perhaps we should start calling the Easter Bunny the Chocolate-Bearing Non-Resurrection Rodent to avoid confusion. After all, people clearly associate the critter with the empty tomb. It causes a fuss every year in my neighborhood.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahhahhahaaaaaaaaaa :lol:

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Why call them CHRISTMAS trees if they have no association with the Christmas holiday (holy day)? Few are stupid enough to believe that Christmas decorations have nothing to do with Christmas and that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ.

Following that line of thinking, perhaps we should start calling the Easter Bunny the Chocolate-Bearing Non-Resurrection Rodent to avoid confusion. After all, people clearly associate the critter with the empty tomb. It causes a fuss every year in my neighborhood.

I don't drop drugs like the Supremes do. No way you can get around the fact that CHRISTmas trees are associated with a religious Holy day, not the 4th of July or Memorial Day. When they start commemorating Ramadan with displays of the Star and Crescent (not a religious symbol either) for a month on public property, then I'll believe that CHRISTmas trees on government property are benign and represent no particular faith's holiday celebration, and that the government is not partial to one faith tradition over others.

Edited November 30, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Ban Hammer 13,347]

Does anyone else find the concept of a "diversity official" a bit disturbing?

i've been waiting for someone to notice that interesting title.....i wonder if the official has a striped shirt, a whistle and flag

[Sister Fracas 5]

I think it's rediculous to take the yules trees down, BUT here's a question....IF said trees having nothing to do with Christmas, why the claim that people are launching an attack ON Christmas?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I think it's rediculous to take the yules trees down, BUT here's a question....IF said trees having nothing to do with Christmas, why the claim that people are launching an attack ON Christmas?

You owe me a new keyboard, Frances.

[Sister Fracas 5]

As an aside here, and back on topic, the Jews should be the last one to complain about christian decorations. Their decorations are #######. They drag those menorahs out and every year it takes them a month just to get the lights working.

just wrong! LOL

[Sister Fracas 5]

I think it's rediculous to take the yules trees down, BUT here's a question....IF said trees having nothing to do with Christmas, why the claim that people are launching an attack ON Christmas?

You owe me a new keyboard, Frances.

whoops...

but loooking at that...what the hell did I write? Did I drink last night?

Well anyway, y'all get the gist. If the tree is just a by-product of the holiday season.... and has no religious meaning.... *shrug* ...it shouldn't be a biggie.

Edited November 30, 2007 by Sister Fracas

[Jasman0717 9]

This PC stuff is getting totally outta control

[Sister Fracas 5]