Goodbye

[Ta Ta 1]

Good points in the last two posts.

I want to bring out one point though. In most 3. world countries a man who works very hard makes $100-300 a month.

He can work from dawn to dusk.

How in the world is he going to afford a $ 5000-$10000 visa journey? If he is your husband then the money should be pooled to make

the visa journey possible. One in all including finances.

If you want him to pay for everything then it is best to look within your own country for a mate who is able to make this possible.

The mena and sub-saharan relationships for the most part have to share the expenses of the common goal to come together at some point.

It is unrealistic , to expect the man to pay for everything , the entire visa journey, making $100 a month.

Unemployment runs extremely high in most African countries, especially war torn countries.

It has to come to a decision of yes we love each other and I will contribute ......or see you later I want it all. Gimme gimme gimme.

I am just bringing the flip side and a touch of reality to your perspective.

To you ladies who want the man to pay it all, more power to you and that is your choice but there are a lot of variables in the mix

for other couples.

It depends on each situation. The heart , soul and mind and God centered attitude of a man is more important to me than his pocket book.

There is no one formula with human beings and the dynamics of each relationship varies.

I have heard many accounts of the man spoiling the woman once he works here and make her contributions up to her.

God bless !

[Enlighten one :) 5]

iwould pay my husbands way here if he needed the assistance and I did not have a son to put through college in 10 years. I would pay for a friend to go through the visa process if they needed help. I have a son first to consider when i was getting to know my son. every choice i make in my life effects him. i am just posting in concern for those who have expressed distress regarding financial hardship and disappointment.

The deceit is what is so disappointing. i went through lots of emotional abuse with my son's father with manipulation and confusion. I have read a few post where the women were unsure. And i just want them to be confident in their decision, which is hard when you have someone messing with your mind.

i just am giving support to those who are sharing their story of disappointment, because that is a large pill to swallow without the pain reliever. giving them kudos and some things to look out for.

I think I have given feed back regarding several different threads that I have read in the past few days. I just chose this one to write in because it was the third one where i seen people complaining about idocare's posts. i do think she should share her experiences without making assumption about other peoples experience. her experience should not effect another person's experience unless they had doupt already.

Thank you for everyone who has taken the time to post. Your time, thoughts, oppionions and experience are welcomed appreciated and valued for the wonderful people that you are. we are all here to support each other, which is what makes this place so wonderful.

[Ta Ta 1]

Heather sorry to say that this sounds all to familiar. IF YOUR HUSBAND IS TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM U . you can expect lots of disarray in your near future, with the results ending in him moving out. So sorry to say that many people that have been members in the past of this same forum, fell in love over the internet in such a short time then ran to Nigeria to meet their " true love "

Once bringing these men here and app;ying for their adjustment of statis or they receive their green card things seems to change , now th little arguments/ misunderstandings become blown up and the person that you brought here is no longer the same person. They become confrontative, secretivr, and manipulative towards u, u probably feel as tho he thinks your the enemy.

Trust me many that went thru the journey with me back in 2004 r no longer with their Nigerian husbands. NOT ALL but for many americans both women and men, it just a plot for us Americans to assist them in getting out of Nigeria; a total scam. Unfortunately for us Americans we don't find out that we've been scammed until it's too late, they r here have their green card and now ready to get out of this marriage and go their way.

You think that this Nigerian threats u like the enemy sometimes is because in their mind u r the enemy, they no that they have love or someone back home that they want to be with, and they r patient enough to do what's required to get to America, and if it means marrying u then so be it, they aren't afraid of marriage, and they know it's something that only temporary, and that they don't have to stay married once here in America.

Us Americans r too trusting and some Nigerians are too manipultive so u won't see it coming until they r ready to move on and end the marriage, But in the mean time you will have a great visit in Nigeria everyone will treat u with respect and you will be the only person that don't know he's just marrying u for visa benifits, heck his girlfriend/wife in Nigeria may be sitting in the room with you all being introduced as his cousin or someone.

I know cause it's happened to me and many friends that I met here on this site. So I just want too caution u all that if it seems to good to be tru and u found true love on the net from ANY other country it just may not be true, or it wait , it will be true for a period of time, cause they need u to sign for their papers. or to get them a visa to come into America.

Mrs Libowu, I am all for Idocare posting HER story here and give people a cautious perspective for those who blindly follow their hearts without

thinking.

The problem I have is with the generalization of her " they will..." in regards to Nigerians.

Maybe an " my experience ...." or a " my ex did ....." would be wiser than stereotypes and generalization.

I know far too many good Nigerians than bad ones.

As a matter of fact a Nigerian friend not too long ago offered me financial help without repaying, as a gift when I needed something.

He just said God layed it on my heart to give you this !

Just one bad one here and there does not mean the majority aren't good people.

Maybe some people are looking in the wrong places and should check within themselves what the common denominator is in repeated bad relationships

with any man, American or Nigerian.

I have enjoyed the different POV's and this discussion and hope people will take from it what they need.

May your journeys be speedy without road bumps and may you all grow in your relationships with God as the center.

[ForeverAmen 0]

Mrs Libowu, I am all for Idocare posting HER story here and give people a cautious perspective for those who blindly follow their hearts without

thinking.

The problem I have is with the generalization of her " they will..." in regards to Nigerians.

Maybe an " my experience ...." or a " my ex did ....." would be wiser than stereotypes and generalization.

In my opininon all that has been posted is certainly good 'food for thought'.

Omoba - in response to your comment regarding Idocare generalizing all Nigerians ... I thought I would point out that in her very first response she specifically stated, "NOT ALL but for many americans both women and men, it just a plot for us Americans to assist them in getting out of Nigeria;" So I don't think she is implying that all Nigerians are bad. If I am wrong, please accept my apology in advance.

I personally did not have the experience of meeting / dating someone on-line. My husband and I met through his sister. Nevertheless, I agree with all that's been stated. The thoughts given applies to anyone regardless of whether you met your SO online, or if your SO is an American or not. In either case .... always keep your third eye open.

Boaz

[BESANGIN 0]

Oh this is getting GOOD!!!!! Now in my opinion what is unrealistic is a man who knows he ain't got a pot to piss in online trying to find someone he knows full well he can't support. What are his famous words? "With God anything is possible". Now we're thingking he's a good godly man. Then ask God to send me a round trip ticket and a paid hotel reservation so I can come see you. What that really means is if you loved me for me, you will YOU will make it happen for us to be together forever. Sound familiar. I have heard it from many men tryin' to holla from afar. Even though his income is not comparable to a US salary that has nothing to do with how he manages it and how he uses it towards funding his own way. I relied on the I'm a hardworking-Godfearing-you will stop working 2 jobs when I get home and I will do that-what will I eat tonight?- I won't have my wife supprting me BULLISH!!!!!!! SO believe me I went there with my EX husband. Hell you would have thought I wrote the song "Stand By Your Man"! When he got here the man who wooed me on the internet and when I was in Nigeria got switched at customs, dear, when he arrived in the states. Because what came home to me was the REAL MAN I MARRIED, and honestly, I did not like him, and I was becoming just like him. I was the one who continued to support because He said we work to hard in this country. He told me I was used to it and he wasn't. I would never tell a woman its ok to support your man without thinking SMART. If you have to go into debt to do it. You better think twice. For him love don't cost a thing cause nothing is in his name! Now if you believe in the fairytale love conquers all that's fine and dandy for you, but I say be smart about your money. And the truth be told if anyone here is doubting there SO in anyway then My points have been proven. You have no foundation to your relationship, and you are not secure that your relationship is forever. But if I'm striking a nerve then hey........... Now as for if he is your husband, what about the sisters who bring them in as a fiance? He ain't their husband and they are supporting him. Not all are to clarify, but all I am saying is be smart and let your man prove that not only is he going to be hardworking and responsible when he comes home but that he is currently hardworking and responsible in Nigeria NOW. Don't dig yourself in debt because it may take a while for him to raise the money and you want him home now. If he is your man, God is not going to let another woman have him and vice versa. When we don't wait on God we get in deep trouble and I will be the first to say I wanted right now and threw caution out the window. I paid for mine. I am not bitter and would date another foreigner in a minute, but there are limits that I have in place now. SO if it happened to me again it won't be because I made the same mistakes. I am not telling anyone to not date a foreigner or pursue a foreign relationship, I am merely saying be smart and keep yourself protected. If all works out fine what have you lost? But if he indeed scammed you then you have kept yourself protected. I will not apologize for expecting a potential suitor to MAN UP, and no woman should. If you are leaving your family to become his wife, it is now his obligation to make sure your needs are met on EVERY level. I know what I will bring to the table and I don't half step in relationships. Its all or nothing with me, and if he is not coming to the plate ready to be in relationship with ALL the good, the bad and to put in the work that it takes to sustain it then he needs to KEEP IT MOVIN'!!!! Its all good in the beginning when everything he says or do is cute and you are so in love, but what happens when he starts riding your nerves like a HARLEY? Or when his A$$ is sneaking and doing things you don't know about. Do you high tail and run, kick his A$$ to the curb, or work it out? I did all of the above until I lost myself in the shuffle and I realized that we were two people with different convictions about life, love and relationships. HE was not the one for me so I ended it. It would have been a matter of time before sweet gentle me was going to get GHETTO on his A$$ and hurt him. So LOVE THE ONE YOU WITH, BUT DO IT SMART!!!!!

[ForeverAmen 0]

As woman we fall into that trap of believing that we are wrong or GOLD DIGGERS for expecting men to be men. Damnit if you want to be the head of the household, then take care of your WOMAN AND YOUR FAMILY!!! I don't care if you have to work 2 or three jobs to do it. That's what you are called to do biblically and your pride definitely calls you to do it because you want to be in control.

A-men! A-men! A-MEN !!!!!!!

Please don't get me wrong - I strongly agree with the concept of working together as one. As my own husband sometimes states "one hand cannot tie a bundle". Nevertheless - at the end of the day I do believe in letting a man, be a man. Even if his little bit can only pay the utilities, and a few tanks of gas. That's OK .... let him be the man! And help him (if possible) make the sacrifices of getting to the next level ie., additional schooling, etc., etc. Now I do understand that some things must be a part of a person. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it. But at the end of the day - let a man be a man!

As the song goes ... you gotta pay the cost, if you wanna be the boss.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Boaz

[BESANGIN 0]

BOAZ, I knew I liked you!!!!!! LOL!!!!! That's the main part of my soap box lecture!!!!!!! Let a man be a man in all seasons. A good man would not have a problem with proving that to you!

Edited December 1, 2007 by BESANGIN

[Enlighten one :) 5]

Mrs Libowu, I am all for Idocare posting HER story here and give people a cautious perspective for those who blindly follow their hearts without

thinking.

The problem I have is with the generalization of her " they will..." in regards to Nigerians.

Maybe an " my experience ...." or a " my ex did ....." would be wiser than stereotypes and generalization.

.

Yes agree about removing the geralization. Now with that is said, let not generalize that it just men on VJ that are scamming for the american dream. enough said.

[Ta Ta 1]

Well guys I said what I said , feeling very confident and comfortable with the way things are in my relationship and hope you all find what you are looking for as well. Different strokes for different folks. I agree with the majority with what was said but disagree with the

'he pays for all or keep on moving ' statement. But no sense in beating a dead horse. Ce la vie !

Boaz yes I saw the 'not all ' in her post and that was good. I also saw the ' they will...' and that was not.

African Americans should never be refered to as 'they will....etc.' but some African Americans easily say ' they will....' when it comes to Nigerians.

I am so very much against singling out a race or Nationality and would not expect that on a cultural diverse immigration board.

Thanks for your opinons. It was interesting.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

In a healthy relationship, I feel that you should be somewhere in the middle. The idea that you go to visit him and he pays for "everything" to "prove" he loves you is unbalanced. To me that's simple minded. That wouldn't prove to me that he loves me....that would prove to me that he has bad judgement for using a considerable portion of his income for a one time visit/vacation from someone he cares about. And if he were here in America and did that, we'd probably have a huge argument as well. When I visit my fiance in Ghana we split costs. Sometimes I pay the airfare and he pays for my lodging.....he often pays for meals and taxis and trips, but I stick my two cents in there as well, even if I have to hand him the money so he can feel like the man in actually paying. And I do the same thing with girl/guy friends here and in previous relationships in the US. When I expect to be taken care of.....money is only a part of it...and while he's still in Ghana making a fraction of what I make, money is NOT the big part of it. He supports me emotionally and spiritually. He's my prayer partner and my bigges prayer warrior. He listens, even when he doesn't get it cause it may be my personal reaction and he thinks it's no big deal. He supports me in setting life goals and planning progress. He supports all of who I am and hope to be. This isn't my first marraige. I had a failed marraige that was also originated online. It failed after 10 years and a beautiful daughter. I had counseling to release that baggage and it sounds like it was a decision that others could benefit in making. It's a jaded view to think that a man proves his love and worth by his wallet. It's a jaded view that says, from a post stating that this website has caused arguments in your relationship that an appropriate response is I think your man is trying to use you and dump you. Inferring your past pain into a three line note is YOUR issue. You aren't trying to HELP anyone. The person didn't ask for help or convey anything in those three lines to lead to the conclusion that their marraige is in extreme danger. But your personal pain and bitterness makes any Nigerian related marraige post a RED FLAG. Always look in the mirror first. What you think you're conveying is not what's coming out AT ALL. I read...hatred....animosity...bitterness....anger.....vengenance.....loneliness. So it automatically gets dismissed. It only helps to show your emotional state and need for help yourself. Doesn't much serve to help anyone else.

[Enlighten one :) 5]

I do not think my husband paid for me to prove he loved me. He did it because he could. I was a single parent at the time. Spending money to go visit him when I have a child at home was never an option for me. He knew it when He met me. When he is in America my money will be his money. He is going to college once he is here. So I will be the primary source of income then. It will be a joy to put my husband through college. I am sure he will work part time for little extras, since we are planning our first child right away. I am not getting any younger. He want two more, but i want one so we can adopt some foster child who need homes.

Time will tell, since I do love doing the mommy thing. We will see how good he is at the daddy thing. *wink

[BESANGIN 0]

I was going to just read the recent post and be done, but I won't because obviously the only point that is coming across is man and money. Sister if that relationship and meeting in the middle is working for you then do you, again I say just be smart. That is not saying your man is scamming you, using you, or anything like that. Being a man is more than providing for a woman financially there is a whole lot of things that go along with that that we need as woman. Did you notice that I am a woman too? I know that in all honesty emotional security is what we desire most of all, but unfortunately finances are a direct relationship to having that emotional security. I am not saying that a man has to be Donald Trump, but handle the money that you do have well. And do note that in my posts when I refer to a man I didn't put a nationality in front of it unless it related to MY ex. SO men are men everywhere it applies to all men. WHy do marriages and relationships fail? Main 2 causes, infidelity and finances. So what I wanted to impart to you all is just to really build solid foundations in your relationships, and I am not saying anything different then what our parents told us, what I preachers tell us. If you read my first post. I encouraged the OP to fight for her relationship and would encourage anyone to do the same regardless of how mine turned out. I also know how when things go sour we are quick to lose heart and beat ourselves up over it. Sometimes relationships just go wrong. I've been there and want others to know that it happens, you pick yourself up and get back in there and find love again. I'm sorry that you feel that my views are simple minded, and I am bitter, hateful, and whatever else you said about me, but my sister you could not be further from the truth. Allow me to speak voice to voice with you if you are open to that and you will see that MY intentions are to encourage and empower women to be smart whether it is overseas or home. No one deserves to be heartbroken and used by anyone, but a lot of times women, the emotional creatures that we are lead with our hearts and not with our heads, and in most cases it gets us into trouble. Vengeful, no. Not that kind of person. If my Ex was in trouble today ie. hungry or sick, I would do what I could to help him. Regardless of our marriage ending he is still my brother in Christ. ENough said. The invite is out there to you and anyone else if you would like to converse on the phone. As you can tell I am a talker, and I stand by what I say. One last thing and I am shutting up for real. LOL!!!

It's funny how I often see posts that ask where are all the old heads why are they not around? Well this is why. Most people only want to hear the good so as not to challenge things in their own relationships. Everything about my marriage was not bad. I can give tips and advice on the good too, but if I can give you some advice from my mistakes and the parts that weren't good so you can maybe avoid them or work them out better with your spouse why not listen. Just take from it what you can use and what applies to you, and the rest just KEEP IT MOVIN'. I'm pullin' for you all!

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

I was going to just read the recent post and be done, but I won't because obviously the only point that is coming across is man and money. Sister if that relationship and meeting in the middle is working for you then do you, again I say just be smart. That is not saying your man is scamming you, using you, or anything like that. Being a man is more than providing for a woman financially there is a whole lot of things that go along with that that we need as woman. Did you notice that I am a woman too? I know that in all honesty emotional security is what we desire most of all, but unfortunately finances are a direct relationship to having that emotional security. I am not saying that a man has to be Donald Trump, but handle the money that you do have well. And do note that in my posts when I refer to a man I didn't put a nationality in front of it unless it related to MY ex. SO men are men everywhere it applies to all men. WHy do marriages and relationships fail? Main 2 causes, infidelity and finances. So what I wanted to impart to you all is just to really build solid foundations in your relationships, and I am not saying anything different then what our parents told us, what I preachers tell us. If you read my first post. I encouraged the OP to fight for her relationship and would encourage anyone to do the same regardless of how mine turned out. I also know how when things go sour we are quick to lose heart and beat ourselves up over it. Sometimes relationships just go wrong. I've been there and want others to know that it happens, you pick yourself up and get back in there and find love again. I'm sorry that you feel that my views are simple minded, and I am bitter, hateful, and whatever else you said about me, but my sister you could not be further from the truth. Allow me to speak voice to voice with you if you are open to that and you will see that MY intentions are to encourage and empower women to be smart whether it is overseas or home. No one deserves to be heartbroken and used by anyone, but a lot of times women, the emotional creatures that we are lead with our hearts and not with our heads, and in most cases it gets us into trouble. Vengeful, no. Not that kind of person. If my Ex was in trouble today ie. hungry or sick, I would do what I could to help him. Regardless of our marriage ending he is still my brother in Christ. ENough said. The invite is out there to you and anyone else if you would like to converse on the phone. As you can tell I am a talker, and I stand by what I say. One last thing and I am shutting up for real. LOL!!!

It's funny how I often see posts that ask where are all the old heads why are they not around? Well this is why. Most people only want to hear the good so as not to challenge things in their own relationships. Everything about my marriage was not bad. I can give tips and advice on the good too, but if I can give you some advice from my mistakes and the parts that weren't good so you can maybe avoid them or work them out better with your spouse why not listen. Just take from it what you can use and what applies to you, and the rest just KEEP IT MOVIN'. I'm pullin' for you all!

My post was not directed to you. I have read several posts from you since the end of your relationship and never sensed bitterness as you say. You express YOUR experience and encourage and support others no matter where they are in the process. The other post was quite the opposite. It was bitter, angry, and decidedly focused on vengence. Nothing positive about that post from my read and it was the start of this lengthy conversation about being scammed or used which I didn't see as a direct offshoot of Heather's post, except of course for the fact that her spouse in Nigerian.

[BESANGIN 0]

Thank you for clarifying that. It is very hard to be objective when your situation still has you in its grip. I believe she has a genuine desire to help, but its hard to separate what she's feeling and going through to be 100% objective. We all need prays,help and understanding to be successful or even to get through when things aren't successful, and I hope everyone grasps this from all that has been written. If any of you ever need me you know how to reach me. I am not an expert but I have nearly 5 years of experience on all levels of the process and relationship. Peace

[Enlighten one :) 5]

OH, OK! I do not have much resentment. I feel sorry for people who have to live there life that way. People think that they do not feel the pain, but they do. The do not know who there true self is and can never rest with allthe lies around them. Can never relax and just be. That is what I love about where I am in my life. I can walk into a room and just be me.

Yes there are people in every creed, race, and space who are great and who are bad. And I hate to say it, but people are who they are whether you meet them on line or at the grocery store. So if you met someone online that would be the same type of person you would attract here in the US. We are a mirror of the company we keep. Doesn't mean that when i was dating mentally or emotionally abusive men i behaved that way. I just didn't value myself enough to let someone I deserve into my life.

You two look amazing together by the way. He has a sincere mature look about him.