How many of you really know and understand

[ya falaha! 0]

A good rule of thumb is to get to the point of not even having eye contact with men outside of your SO or his family. While in Egypt I did not even look or speak to men on the street. It prevents a lot of misunderstandings both with your SO and the men. Even something as minute as a smile could get you into trouble.

An acquaintance of mine went to Egypt alone as a tourist. She was completely unaware of the culture and the behavior of some Egyptian men. Initially she was very flattered by the attention she was getting and all of the invites and such. She's a very friendly, affectionate woman. She's used to hugging friends including male friends. She caught on after a few very inappropriate advances that some Egyptian men view Western women as sex objects who are willing to put out to any and all men. They interpreted her friendliness and affection as being loose.

It's funny... what seems like wonderful friendliness to the unwitting could be actually a huge insult to one's honor or reputation. For instance, I know of a woman who travelled alone to a MENA country, where all these men would approach her and offer to show her around, give her rides on their minibikes, even invite her to their apartments for drinks or a cozy meal. She thought it was so nice and kind of them. LOL.

Ughhhh, one night (of course in Egypt it's like living as owls or vampires going out mostly at night), we went out and I got thirsty so we stopped at a store to get me some water. The store was full so I told him I would wait by the door while he went to buy water. There was a man sitting in front of the store, who said something in arabic, so I told him, I'm sorry I don't understand. He got up and offered me the chair he was sitting on. So I'm thinking ohhh how kind! Akram was livid when he got out and gave that man a look!! And I immediately got up to him and said, "please, don't start!! this man was kind enough to offer me his chair". As we were walking away, he told me, "you don't understand. It's after midnight and 'good girls' aren't alone on the street after a certain time. I wanted him to know that you weren't alone"

P.S. To this day, I still think he was a gentleman to offer me his chair

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

So true. My Husbands friend Sabry said to me once, "Stop staring", when I was in observation mode of the scene around me at this local cafe. I didn't even realize I was staring. I felt I was just looking around and I said so. Then he tried to explain to me exactally what you just explained.

A good rule of thumb is to get to the point of not even having eye contact with men outside of your SO or his family. While in Egypt I did not even look or speak to men on the street. It prevents a lot of misunderstandings both with your SO and the men. Even something as minute as a smile could get you into trouble.

An acquaintance of mine went to Egypt alone as a tourist. She was completely unaware of the culture and the behavior of some Egyptian men. Initially she was very flattered by the attention she was getting and all of the invites and such. She's a very friendly, affectionate woman. She's used to hugging friends including male friends. She caught on after a few very inappropriate advances that some Egyptian men view Western women as sex objects who are willing to put out to any and all men. They interpreted her friendliness and affection as being loose.

It's funny... what seems like wonderful friendliness to the unwitting could be actually a huge insult to one's honor or reputation. For instance, I know of a woman who travelled alone to a MENA country, where all these men would approach her and offer to show her around, give her rides on their minibikes, even invite her to their apartments for drinks or a cozy meal. She thought it was so nice and kind of them. LOL.

Ughhhh, one night (of course in Egypt it's like living as owls or vampires going out mostly at night), we went out and I got thirsty so we stopped at a store to get me some water. The store was full so I told him I would wait by the door while he went to buy water. There was a man sitting in front of the store, who said something in arabic, so I told him, I'm sorry I don't understand. He got up and offered me the chair he was sitting on. So I'm thinking ohhh how kind! Akram was livid when he got out and gave that man a look!! And I immediately got up to him and said, "please, don't start!! this man was kind enough to offer me his chair". As we were walking away, he told me, "you don't understand. It's after midnight and 'good girls' aren't alone on the street after a certain time. I wanted him to know that you weren't alone"

P.S. To this day, I still think he was a gentleman to offer me his chair

[ayesha4akram 0]

A good rule of thumb is to get to the point of not even having eye contact with men outside of your SO or his family. While in Egypt I did not even look or speak to men on the street. It prevents a lot of misunderstandings both with your SO and the men. Even something as minute as a smile could get you into trouble.

An acquaintance of mine went to Egypt alone as a tourist. She was completely unaware of the culture and the behavior of some Egyptian men. Initially she was very flattered by the attention she was getting and all of the invites and such. She's a very friendly, affectionate woman. She's used to hugging friends including male friends. She caught on after a few very inappropriate advances that some Egyptian men view Western women as sex objects who are willing to put out to any and all men. They interpreted her friendliness and affection as being loose.

It's funny... what seems like wonderful friendliness to the unwitting could be actually a huge insult to one's honor or reputation. For instance, I know of a woman who travelled alone to a MENA country, where all these men would approach her and offer to show her around, give her rides on their minibikes, even invite her to their apartments for drinks or a cozy meal. She thought it was so nice and kind of them. LOL.

Ughhhh, one night (of course in Egypt it's like living as owls or vampires going out mostly at night), we went out and I got thirsty so we stopped at a store to get me some water. The store was full so I told him I would wait by the door while he went to buy water. There was a man sitting in front of the store, who said something in arabic, so I told him, I'm sorry I don't understand. He got up and offered me the chair he was sitting on. So I'm thinking ohhh how kind! Akram was livid when he got out and gave that man a look!! And I immediately got up to him and said, "please, don't start!! this man was kind enough to offer me his chair". As we were walking away, he told me, "you don't understand. It's after midnight and 'good girls' aren't alone on the street after a certain time. I wanted him to know that you weren't alone"

P.S. To this day, I still think he was a gentleman to offer me his chair

Yes, I made a few "no-no's" while I was there, but I learned my lesson as to not look or smile at others. I'm glad he was patient with me during my visit and understood that I just needed to get used to things. Alhamdulillah he has a great sense of humor and we practically ended up laughing at everything good or bad that happened, even my mistakes (of course some things took a while to find funny but we would eventually laugh)

[hollyw 0]

WOM-- I mastered the slow-two-handed eating. You make sure to always have somehting in your mouth and your right hand... and you just slowly eat.. like one grape at a time. That was how I got out of the not eating enough versus too much for what i felt like (which was nothing).

That is awesome.... and something I need to start doing.

Yeah hugging to me as an American is like the two kisses on the cheeks when meeting or saying Goodbye to Europeans.

When I hugged my Husband's bestfriend to show my gratefulness for his hospitality I didn't know I did anything wrong. His bestfriend apologize for five minutes to my Husband while I got on the bus back to Cairo. It wasn't until I got back to the US that I knew I did anything wrong and what they were talking about outside the bus.

Yea, the hugging thing was also an issue with me. My husband's Algerian friends/family in France never had a problem with it. So when I was saying goodbye to one of my husband's friends in Algeria, I gave him a big hug. We'd gotten to know each other, we were buddies. He turned bright red and had a shocked look on his face. My husband couldn't stop laughing. It also took the same friend awhile to be comfortable sitting alone with me in a car or at a cafe if my husband had to get up for some reason. He would stare straight ahead and give one word answers if I tried to talk to him until my husband told him it was ok.

On the whole though, I got the feeling that Algeria was more relaxed than some of the other MENA countries.. maybe just because we were in a city? Or the people I was around? I constantly saw guys and girls out together in groups and a few of my husband's female friends went out on dates, drove alone with men in cars, etc. Not the norm, I'm sure, but I noticed it happening more than in other MENA countries.

[ya falaha! 0]

Sometimes it depends on the social class not necessarily the country.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I was really wondering about that myself while I was there.

For example say someone who is a MENA native like a Saudi Prince that has traveled the world and be exposed to many cultures and is highly educated. Would they be having the same reaction as say someone who is from a villiage and never seen the ocean? That's just an extreme example.

Maybe a better example would be the liberals and the conservative here and the acceptance of different social behaviors. Are there ones like that in MENA countries?

Sometimes it depends on the social class not necessarily the country.

Edited November 29, 2007 by OlivianWaleed

[Nasturtium 500]

Sometimes it depends on the social class not necessarily the country.

I think religion plays into it as well -how strict you are in things. I know in my husband's family they are pretty chummy way past the "mahram" stage and covering is optional (and usually more a function of social indication of marital status, not religion). ETA-- I meant to also mention in his village they are known as odd because they mix in every occasion, which probably lends credence to their behaviors within the village.

In his area (north Jordan) it's better to look people in the eye even in the street-- the difference is you don't smile at random people. You keep a business attitude with strangers. You shake hands with opposite sex and stand no matter who they are or how often you have seen them in that day if they are associates, although friends and family you can relax generally after the first meeting. Jordanian girls have this deadpan expression in the streets if they are alone. if you adopt it as well, you get little to no hasseling, and not even staring if you cover up your blonde hair If you have dark hair, you'll be fine even without a cover. You just figure out what makes someone slutty and just avoid that. Sounds like Egypt needs a more conservative approach in general. But I can't think of a single MENA place where it's OK to hug people of the opposite sex who are aquaintences... I am sure there could be some place but i just can't think of one. Someone will probably have one as soon as I post this.

Edited November 29, 2007 by julianna

[Imua 0]

I don't know if it's the same in MENA countries, but I found it very strange that Govi felt comfortable holding my hand everywhere when we were walking, but hugging and kissing is strictly forbidden, even in front of his family, even at our wedding(our first kiss as husband and wife was in his living room when mom and dad went out for a minute - SIL shot a quick photo and Govi is looking fearfully to see if they're coming back) I was so sad that on the day when I left Kathmandu we could not hug and kiss since we left the hotel early in the morning - we went from his parents' house to the airport.

Is holding hands OK in MENA countries?

[ya falaha! 0]

In Egypt hand holding is ok and actually quite normal. Public kissing is not although we did sneak a couple times. My husband did kiss me during our wedding party and his cousin yelled out...haram!!! It was kinda funny.

I don't know if it's the same in MENA countries, but I found it very strange that Govi felt comfortable holding my hand everywhere when we were walking, but hugging and kissing is strictly forbidden, even in front of his family, even at our wedding(our first kiss as husband and wife was in his living room when mom and dad went out for a minute - SIL shot a quick photo and Govi is looking fearfully to see if they're coming back) I was so sad that on the day when I left Kathmandu we could not hug and kiss since we left the hotel early in the morning - we went from his parents' house to the airport.

Is holding hands OK in MENA countries?

[polarbear 0]

I don't know if it's the same in MENA countries, but I found it very strange that Govi felt comfortable holding my hand everywhere when we were walking, but hugging and kissing is strictly forbidden, even in front of his family, even at our wedding(our first kiss as husband and wife was in his living room when mom and dad went out for a minute - SIL shot a quick photo and Govi is looking fearfully to see if they're coming back) I was so sad that on the day when I left Kathmandu we could not hug and kiss since we left the hotel early in the morning - we went from his parents' house to the airport.

Is holding hands OK in MENA countries?

We were holding hands in Egypt alot. At first he was explaining to me why we shouldn't, but then aparently decided he didn't care

We did get in trouble at the pyramids when we were leaving... we were the last ones to leave and we were walking a little bit behind our friends. I was about to go to the airport and was sad so he put his arm around my shoulders and I put mine on his back. Next thing I knew there was a truckload of security driving by and the leader made them stop to yell at us. My SO told them I was his wife, but sorry I didn't speak any arabic. The officer turned to me to give me a lecture about how that might be okay in America, but I have to respect the local customs (which normally I would agree with, but we really didn't think anyone was behind us...). I also didn't know my SO had said I was the wife and when asked I said I was his fiance.... boy did the officer get mad They let us go and didn't give anymore trouble, but the officer waited by the exit until we left. It probably just made him more upset when the six of us piled into a little 4 door, with another female on one side of me and him on the other

[chaishai 1]

Sometimes it depends on the social class not necessarily the country.

I think religion plays into it as well -how strict you are in things. I know in my husband's family they are pretty chummy way past the "mahram" stage and covering is optional (and usually more a function of social indication of marital status, not religion). ETA-- I meant to also mention in his village they are known as odd because they mix in every occasion, which probably lends credence to their behaviors within the village.

In his area (north Jordan) it's better to look people in the eye even in the street-- the difference is you don't smile at random people. You keep a business attitude with strangers. You shake hands with opposite sex and stand no matter who they are or how often you have seen them in that day if they are associates, although friends and family you can relax generally after the first meeting. Jordanian girls have this deadpan expression in the streets if they are alone. if you adopt it as well, you get little to no hasseling, and not even staring if you cover up your blonde hair If you have dark hair, you'll be fine even without a cover. You just figure out what makes someone slutty and just avoid that. Sounds like Egypt needs a more conservative approach in general. But I can't think of a single MENA place where it's OK to hug people of the opposite sex who are aquaintences... I am sure there could be some place but i just can't think of one. Someone will probably have one as soon as I post this.

israel!

[sarah and hicham 3]

Also, Egyptians in particular have a habit of refusing things at first even if they actually want them. To them, refusing initially is proper etiquette. They offer food and other offerings multiple times to make sure if you really want them. My husband has had to clarify on a few occasions that Americans generally will accept things right away if they are wanted.

The 5th time is always a charm.

[ya falaha! 0]

#######, I don't the patience to offer something five times. I think three times is my limit.

[sarah and hicham 3]

#######, I don't the patience to offer something five times. I think three times is my limit.

I can't help it! It just comes out.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I don't know if it's the same in MENA countries, but I found it very strange that Govi felt comfortable holding my hand everywhere when we were walking, but hugging and kissing is strictly forbidden, even in front of his family, even at our wedding(our first kiss as husband and wife was in his living room when mom and dad went out for a minute - SIL shot a quick photo and Govi is looking fearfully to see if they're coming back) I was so sad that on the day when I left Kathmandu we could not hug and kiss since we left the hotel early in the morning - we went from his parents' house to the airport.

Is holding hands OK in MENA countries?

It depends where....In Tunisia it seems pretty normal . In Algeria hand holding to cross the street.. Kissing ABSOLUTELY NOT... If you kiss in the airport in Algiers the policemen are breathing down your back.....Public displays of affection? Um no.