Another pig abuses the taser.. kid tasered for not signing a speeding ticket

[LoriLawless 0]

Saw this on the news this morning. The driver said that he thought the officer was going to let him show the speed limit sign when he was asked to step out of the car, so he went and pointed towards it.

The officer then pulled the taser out and pointed it to him. The driver thought it was a gun and got nervous, so he started to walk back to the car.

A misunderstand I gather, but I think the officer was wrong. That guy showed no threat to the officer at all.

[eric&gen 0]

Stupid pig abuse there weapons should be fired.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Saw this on the news this morning. The driver said that he thought the officer was going to let him show the speed limit sign when he was asked to step out of the car, so he went and pointed towards it.

The officer then pulled the taser out and pointed it to him. The driver thought it was a gun and got nervous, so he started to walk back to the car.

A misunderstand I gather, but I think the officer was wrong. That guy showed no threat to the officer at all.

well i have personally had law enforcement draw down on me (with a real gun not one w/ a big square yellow cap on the end of the barrell) in the past. walking away wasn't an option for me (coz i thought he was OTT) apparently the officer didn't think this guy should have that option either.

[russ 1]

mmm tasers!

Yet another example of why you should say as little as possible when stopped by the police. Plenty of time to argue in court. Signing the citation is simply acknowledging reciept of it, not an admission of guilt.

Of course, the officer hardly made that clear here.

As for the search, probably okay since he was under arrest at that point. Even if the police are conducting an unlawful search, you can't stop them. The correct thing to do is object to the search, by saying that you do not consent to it. (moot in this case)

Walking away is stupid as well. Asking if you are free to go is a better strategy.

Reading Miranda rights has nothing to do with the validity of the arrest, only the admissibility in court of any statements you make. The police don't need to read you your rights, if they don't, they simply risk having some statements you have made become void in court. Wouldn't have mattered in this case, as refusal to sign the court summons on the ticket is what he was probably charged with.

The "arrest" probably happened as soon as he asked the driver to put his hands behind his back, as at that point, he had no expectation that he would be free to go.

Failure to sign a traffic ticket is grounds for arrest in most states, so simply by stating that he would not sign the citation, the officer did have cause for the arrest. Had the officer explained that the driver was free to contest the citation in court, and that signing was not an admission of guilt, and that he could be arrested for not signing it, the situation would probably not have escalated the way it did.

I'm not a lawyer, please don't believe any of this.

[natty bumppo 297]

This officer will not have a good time as it hits the fan. I see re-education in his future ...

From the video … the officer did not announce the actual speed observed as a reason for issuing the citation (maybe the officer wrote it on the ticket because the officer did not inform the speed when directly asked). The officer only stated the driver was speeding … not a number.

Utah Code 41-6a-607

41-6a-607. Speed violation -- Complaint -- Civil negligence.

(1) For a charge of violation of a speed provision under this part, the citation or information shall specify the:

(a ) speed at which the defendant is alleged to have operated a vehicle; and

(b ) speed limit applicable to the section of the highway where the violation is alleged to have occurred.

(2) The provisions of this part declaring prima facie speed limitations do not relieve the plaintiff in any civil action from the burden of proving negligence on the part of the defendant as the proximate cause of an accident.

The officer really blew the arrest …

Utah Code 77-7-1

77-7-1. "Arrest" defined -- Restraint allowed.

An arrest is an actual restraint of the person arrested or submission to custody. The person shall not be subjected to any more restraint than is necessary for his arrest and detention.

As mentioned in an earlier post … the manner in which the arrest was made … this is where the officer appears to screw the pooch

Utah Code 77-7-6

77-7-6. Manner of making arrest.

(1) The person making the arrest shall inform the person being arrested of his intention, cause, and authority to arrest him. ....

And again in his use of force in making the arrest … without notification of an arrest

Utah Code 77-7-7

77-7-7. Force in making arrest.

If a person is being arrested and flees or forcibly resists after being informed of the intention to make the arrest, the person arresting may use reasonable force to effect the arrest. Deadly force may be used only as provided in Section 76-2-404.

Both parties did not behave well. The officer is the professional and has training to handle / defuse situations ... looks like he needs more

I'm still looking to discover if the driver is required to sign the document and what happens on refusal to sign.

[russ 1]

Both parties did not behave well. The officer is the professional and has training to handle / defuse situations ... looks like he needs more

Agreed. The officer is the one familiar with the law. He did not communicate what was going to the driver, or the consequences of not signing a ticket. Had he been more courteous and forthcoming with facts, it is unlikely that this would have turned out the way it did.

The driver was an idiot, mainly for being ignorant of the law.

All of the speeding tickets that I have had in my life have been for LESS THAN 5 miles over the speed limit. (59 in a 55, 39 in a 35, and 74 in a 70.) I have disputed all of them, and never won. In two of these cases, it was where the speed limit dropped within a few hundred feet and I was slowing down. In both cases, the speed trap was conveniently 100 feet in front of where the sign comes into view.

Some police departments like to do this as a fishing expedition for outstanding warrants, or as a revenue generator (most people will pay a bogus ticket, given the costs and low probability of success in fighting them.) Since it is a civil infraction, there isn't much proof required (in the officers judgment, that he estimated you exceeded the speed limit is enough for most judges)

I'm still looking to discover if the driver is required to sign the document and what happens on refusal to sign.

The drive is required to in most states. Some don't require a signature at all, as they don't set a court date unless you appeal the citation. In states which do, the officer typically has the option of noting "Refused to Sign" on the citation, or arresting you on the spot.

What ultimately happens is up to a judge, who will almost always side with the officer if you fail to appear. In this case, he would issue a bench warrant for your arrest.

Another saftey tip - if you are asked to get out of the car, you are most likely getting arrested. Keep your mouth shut, and do exactly what they say. Lock the doors and roll up the windows as you exit. If they ask to search your car (or you), politely refuse. They can pat you down for weapons. If you are carrying a concealed weapon, be familiar with the laws in your state - you may not be required to disclose this, but it is often a good idea to do so anyway. If they ask you questions after you are arrested, politely ask that your lawyer be present. Do not ever admit to breaking any law. If you are asked why you were pulled over, say you don't know (it is the truth, only the officer knows why he pulled you over). If asked how fast you were going, say you aren't sure, or you don't know precisely. Once you admit to breaking the law, you give up a lot of rights. Depending on the laws in your state, don't agree to do a field sobriety test (the touching your nose thing), you only have to do the chemical tests. In this case, you don't get a lawyer until after they do the test, but still keep your mouth shut.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Ah, that's right...I just remembered that it was you, russ, who posted that video on what to do when pulled over. That driver should never have engaged into an argument with the cop...that was his first big mistake. I can't imagine anyone has ever been successful with arguing their way out of ticket with a traffic cop.

[russ 1]

I can't imagine anyone has ever been successful with arguing their way out of ticket with a traffic cop.

When I was in the military, they would let a lot more slide.

"Why are you in such a hurry?"

"Just got called to the base."

"Why?"

"Can't tell you."

"Have a nice day"

Cops, firefighters, judges, and a bunch of others probably get of easy too.

[Drew and Tik 0]

It's not an illegal search the person or vehicle you observed them in if they're under arrest, it's called Search Incident to Lawful Arrest and is actually expected.

As stated before, there should be no expectation of being read one's rights, you are probably better off not being read them because then anything you say in responds to questions CAN'T be used against you in court (for the most part), as opposed to "can be used against you." I have never read anyone Miranda rights, I've been with detectives or district attorneys while they read Miranda rights to people I've arrested, but only about 10% of the time maybe (robbery and domestic violence cases mostly).

The guy should have listened to instructions, even during my most punked-out, anti-authoritarian high school years, I never would have acted like that during a traffic stop (and I used to get many, many traffic violations and never had a confrontation on the street with a police officer about it). The officer should have shown more restraint, it seems he pulled out the taser almost immediately after the guy vacated the vehicle. I don't see why he would do this, if the man actually had a gun or knife the officer would be at a huge disadvantage in not being able to shoot with bullets as opposed to a much less effective taser.

Nobody is a complete victim here, the officer or the driver. Both should have handled the situation differently. I don't think it was a grave offense that a man not listening to instructions was tasered, but I do think the officer should think a little more and possibly go to retraining.

Glad I never have to worry about this, there's a spot on our citations for the person to sign, but they aren't required to sign it If the person rips the summons up in front of me, it's a possible collar, though I don't really care, I'll just pick them up on a warrant in three months when they don't pay it.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Drew and Tik

[Drew and Tik 0]

Ah, that's right...I just remembered that it was you, russ, who posted that video on what to do when pulled over. That driver should never have engaged into an argument with the cop...that was his first big mistake. I can't imagine anyone has ever been successful with arguing their way out of ticket with a traffic cop.

In New York City the motorist wins about 80% of cases in traffic court. I think we're the exception, not the rule though. The judges here are just much tougher on cops than on the motorist. Criminal court is another story though.

[russ 1]

Ah, that's right...I just remembered that it was you, russ, who posted that video on what to do when pulled over. That driver should never have engaged into an argument with the cop...that was his first big mistake. I can't imagine anyone has ever been successful with arguing their way out of ticket with a traffic cop.

BTW, here's the link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3...h&plindex=0

Thanks for remembering... By the way, I have know many cops. My room mate up in Boston was a cop. Every single one of them have been decent guys, doing a tough job that requires them to deal with the absolute dregs of society every day. Around here, all of the police I have met have been courteous and helpful.

Be a decent person, treat the police the way you would like to be treated, know the rules, and I don't think you will have a problem 99.999% of the time. Most cops don't wake up in the morning looking for a way to put Grandma in jail for jaywalking..

Edited November 23, 2007 by russ

[mawilson 2,133]

If a cop tasers you for no apparent reason, is it ok to shoot them in self-defense?

[Drew and Tik 0]

If a cop tasers you for no apparent reason, is it ok to shoot them in self-defense?

No, if a civilian tasers you for no reason it's probably not OK to shoot them.

[mawilson 2,133]

If a cop tasers you for no apparent reason, is it ok to shoot them in self-defense?

No, if a civilian tasers you for no reason it's probably not OK to shoot them.

Makes sense. How about taser them back?

[JeanneVictoria 55]

The guy had a couple chances to avoid being tasered. Sign the ticket and if he knew he didn't want to sign it, just do as the officer said. Instead HE himself put him and the officer in a dangerous situation. I know this guy knew better than to walk away from the officer, but he did and he unfortunately suffered the conquences.