Favorite Pictures in Russia

[Buck and Natalia 0]

Good to hear from you again, Jason! Yep, we've been enjoying the words of your Sasha and Buck's Natalia in your absence.

I think Sasha has stated very well what I was trying to think of the words to say, Slim. Your wife chose you, and I'm sure she had plenty to choose from. I can't say for certain, and I do NOT want to make any more assumptions here than I need to, but sometimes (in my experience, anyway) if a woman isn't getting enough time from her man, she can try substituting 'stuff'. Material things. I know you work a bunch, and I respect the hell of you for that, and I understand it. On your weekends off, find some fun, cheap stuff to do. Do some window shopping and grab a shake. Plan some picnics. Make breakfast in bed. Buy a single rose (if she likes them) every week or two. Just little things. They add up and count for far more, in my estimation, than the new dress or shiny bauble. Yes, an event will come up where the new dress or shiny bauble would have been fabulous and you'll be sure to hear about it, but the disappointments will be tempered by the LOVE and the dedication and caring you demonstrate day in and day out.

Chuckles - I hear ya, and we're rowing in the same boat I think. I make a decent living, nothing too extravagant, but the bills always add up to just under the income, and Natasha doesn't understand it all yet. Some things are priced about the same here as there, but a lot of things are just more expensive. Heck, what with teaching and my regular job I drive about 60 miles a day, which isn't much but with the current price of gas (still cheaper here than most places, I know, but we've been spoiled as Americans for a very long time) that takes a big chunk. It will become clear to her I think with time and experience, and working herself and paying for things on her own.

It's amazing that as the Russian community here on VJ we've managed to somehow take this PHOTO thread and make it all about Russian culture and life and being married and, well, just everything. Personally, I love it! It's the first place I go to read every day.

Hello Slim,

I think KGSodie said some pretty good things (see above). I also know all about working 3rd shifts and putting in overtime. If you are paid on an hourly basis, I suspect your overtime wages often make the difference on whether you make it financially month-to-month. At least it did for me. However, the trade-off is that you are probably spending less time with your wife than what she expected before she came. Her calling you "Papa Karlo" sometimes is probably an indication of this. I know the time you spend at work is probably a financial necessity but that still does not help much with respect to her expectations.

As I read your posts, your wife also sounds a little isolated to me. As you said, she does not mix well with your friends and her social contacts seem to be limited to a couple of "russian friends" that she made. I do not know if she has made any real friends at her own workplace. However, I suspect your wife is very dependent on you for emotional support.

My fiancee has not arrived yet so I do not have a store of personal experience to draw on. KG Sodie said some good things. My words would not differ much from his. Little things probably count for a lot especially if you do not have time for a lot of big things due to your work schedule. However, the social isolation worries me a little (OK.... more than a little) if that is really what is happening.

Perhaps some of the guys that are already married might share some ideas of what worked for them in terms of helping their wives to feel less isolated and/or helping their wives to adjust their expectations following their arrival?

Buck

[mox 298]

As I read your posts, your wife also sounds a little isolated to me. As you said, she does not mix well with your friends and her social contacts seem to be limited to a couple of "russian friends" that she made. I do not know if she has made any real friends at her own workplace. However, I suspect your wife is very dependent on you for emotional support.

My fiancee has not arrived yet so I do not have a store of personal experience to draw on. KG Sodie said some good things. My words would not differ much from his. Little things probably count for a lot especially if you do not have time for a lot of big things due to your work schedule. However, the social isolation worries me a little (OK.... more than a little) if that is really what is happening.

Perhaps some of the guys that are already married might share some ideas of what worked for them in terms of helping their wives to feel less isolated and/or helping their wives to adjust their expectations following their arrival?

Buck

I don't often like to post "me too" posts, but Slim as I've read your posts over the months I've thought the exact same thing myself. Like Buck I have no personal experience on which to base that conclusion, but it has crossed my mind more than a few times.

I too would like to hear from some of the other already-married guys.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Me too!

As I read your posts, your wife also sounds a little isolated to me. As you said, she does not mix well with your friends and her social contacts seem to be limited to a couple of "russian friends" that she made. I do not know if she has made any real friends at her own workplace. However, I suspect your wife is very dependent on you for emotional support.

My fiancee has not arrived yet so I do not have a store of personal experience to draw on. KG Sodie said some good things. My words would not differ much from his. Little things probably count for a lot especially if you do not have time for a lot of big things due to your work schedule. However, the social isolation worries me a little (OK.... more than a little) if that is really what is happening.

Perhaps some of the guys that are already married might share some ideas of what worked for them in terms of helping their wives to feel less isolated and/or helping their wives to adjust their expectations following their arrival?

Buck

I don't often like to post "me too" posts, but Slim as I've read your posts over the months I've thought the exact same thing myself. Like Buck I have no personal experience on which to base that conclusion, but it has crossed my mind more than a few times.

I too would like to hear from some of the other already-married guys.

[mox 298]

Me too!

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Could NOT resist!

Me too!

[mox 298]

Could NOT resist!

Me too.

[slim 1,523]

Me too!

Social isolation is an excellent way to describe it. I'd like to tack on that it's self-induced social isolation though. I've introduced her to everyone that I know and she has no desire what-so-ever to be social with those people. Even the people from her job are "not cultured" enough to be around her outside of work. So, that tends to place everything on me. Emotional support, just being a friend, even having fun; everything is on me, which also means so is the unhappiness and isolation.

I'm curious to hear if anyone out there had a similar situation and what they did to remedy it or what their wife did to eventually overcome it.

Problem is, most of the guys that get married get quite scarce here on VJ. They have better things to do with their time.... (Don't blame them one bit!)

Looking at the whole issue though, I don't think it's so much that you guys will deal with this with your girls (or guys) when they get here. I think it's a personal choice my wife makes. She's pretty independent and I don't think the word "lonely" has ever crossed her mind. I think she just has this vision of what she wants her life (and mine together with her) to be like and she's not going to be entirely happy until we get there.

It's going to take some time. We will get there, no doubt in my mind, but I'm realistic about the timeline. If you guys see other stuff or have been thinking anything... share it. I don't see any of this as bad, I look at all of this as more of a "constructive criticism" and "an outside eye looking in." Sometimes that's what we need in our relationships. Suggestions? Other areas of concern and/or helpful hints?

[mox 298]

The doctor is in.

Again, I don't have the actual experience of living with my SO yet, so I'm short on practical advice. It could very well be that 6 months from now I'll be in your situation doing a search for this thread (photo thread...must remember photo thread!) to see what other people advised.

But I think it's pretty clear that she needs to figure out a way to broaden her social circle. Again, I don't know your wife, but I have a hard time buying that it's a choice she makes. Or at least not a choice she wants to make. If it were a choice then she'd have some level of resignation to it, but that's not what I see you describing. It sounds to me like she's coming up with a lot of excuses to not make friends, and that could be a symptom of anything from shyness to clinical, but is most likely something in between. I think it's up to you and her to figure it out. Nobody *wants* to be unhappy or lonely, but many of us cling to it when we've gone through something very life-changing. I used to be a real social butterfly until after my divorce. I holed up and didn't come out for a long time. I still have a difficult time making friends now and hanging out with people. I hate that I'm not as social as I used to be, but there is a strange comfort to it too.

Anway, my 2 kopeks.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Once again Doc Kirk, you sound like me.

After my divorce, I went from the popular guy, to... Well, I pretty much fell off the earth. Mostly because our friends, truly could not get used to me and the former apart. Still today, neither myself or the former have any of our "old" friends. We've had to make all new. It wasn't until I moved to Russia that my social status returned. Probably says a lot about me. I can see that I enjoy socializing as a couple far more than individually. And like you stated, I feel very comfortable alone when I'm alone. I don't have any need to go out. I'm fine watching a movie with a bowl of popcorn at home.

This subject is something I worry a bit for my Alla. The fact that she has her theatre background, she is used to being around "artsy" very social people. We have spoke about this many times. She told me she is wanting a change and really wants to concentrate on family. In her always interesting words, "Jeffery, I was in theatre because I had not a man in my life. I wanted excitement and not to be bored in my free time. But I have you now. I have my children. It will be enough" I do hope that she will not become overly bored here.

The doctor is in.

Again, I don't have the actual experience of living with my SO yet, so I'm short on practical advice. It could very well be that 6 months from now I'll be in your situation doing a search for this thread (photo thread...must remember photo thread!) to see what other people advised.

But I think it's pretty clear that she needs to figure out a way to broaden her social circle. Again, I don't know your wife, but I have a hard time buying that it's a choice she makes. Or at least not a choice she wants to make. If it were a choice then she'd have some level of resignation to it, but that's not what I see you describing. It sounds to me like she's coming up with a lot of excuses to not make friends, and that could be a symptom of anything from shyness to clinical, but is most likely something in between. I think it's up to you and her to figure it out. Nobody *wants* to be unhappy or lonely, but many of us cling to it when we've gone through something very life-changing. I used to be a real social butterfly until after my divorce. I holed up and didn't come out for a long time. I still have a difficult time making friends now and hanging out with people. I hate that I'm not as social as I used to be, but there is a strange comfort to it too.

Anway, my 2 kopeks.

[KGSodie 0]

In many ways, divorce causes the things Jeffery and Kirk have described - walling off, closing up. Not having moved from one country to another before, I'm obviously not certain but I wonder if moving from Russia and leaving everything you've ever known behind isn't, in some ways, similar.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Well, I tell you. I felt very free in Russia. I felt like a had received a second chance. No one judged me on my past life. I felt brand new and fresh. It was very liberating. If I could have made it, financially, over there, I truly could have stayed for always. I miss living there and can not say I have felt the same since I returned to America.

In many ways, divorce causes the things Jeffery and Kirk have described - walling off, closing up. Not having moved from one country to another before, I'm obviously not certain but I wonder if moving from Russia and leaving everything you've ever known behind isn't, in some ways, similar.

[groovlstk 0]

My experience has been similar to Slim's, although in the last few months my wife has opened up to two couple friends of ours (both Russian couples) and now almost every week we make plans to hang out with them. It took a long time before she was able to trust them enough to get close, however. During her first year here, we spent every moment (outside of work) together except for a single evening when she went to see a Broadway play with the wives of the aforementioned couple. And it wasn't easy, I think I got about 100 text messages from her while we were apart. And please don't get the impression that my wife's a wallflower. She takes the subway to work every day, doesn't hesitate to stand up for herself, has many friends in her native Moscow, and enjoys a rich professional life.

I'm not complaining as we genuinely love each other's company, but if you're a very social person accustomed to contemporary western relationships (wherein it's not odd for a woman and man to have their own exclusive social circles) I'm sure it can be exhausting.

From my experience, there are two factors at work in this phenomenon:

1) Sorry to say it, but it's not easy to find decent Russian woman/Western man couples in the US. Every female my wife met who came here on a K1 instantly grilled her about our income, cars, home, etc. They clearly had no love for their (often much) older husbands and were in it for the upscale lifestyle. Many of these women were shockingly frank about the lovers they took to fulfill their sexual needs, and my wife wanted nothing to do w/them.

Also, I'll never forget the first parties we went to at Russian homes. Always there were several unattached Russian men who hovered about, my wife explained later that they expected our marriage to be a sham and were hoping she'd be looking for a relationship on the side. I'm sure most of you who've gotten as far as the K1 stage know that there will be plenty of American people who will be very skeptical about your relationship when she arrives. Be prepared for local Russians to share the same skepticism, only they won't be sympathetic to you.

2) Your own friends may accept her instantly but more likely they'll be skeptical about her and decide to wait and see. While my friends weren't cold to her, they were obviously waiting to see if she genuinely loved me before warming up.

Anyway, my advice would be to abandon your expectations for her in regards to friends, never pressure her and be prepared to abandon any friends who don't accept her.

[Buck and Natalia 0]

Once again Doc Kirk, you sound like me.

After my divorce, I went from the popular guy, to... Well, I pretty much fell off the earth. Mostly because our friends, truly could not get used to me and the former apart. Still today, neither myself or the former have any of our "old" friends. We've had to make all new. It wasn't until I moved to Russia that my social status returned. Probably says a lot about me. I can see that I enjoy socializing as a couple far more than individually. And like you stated, I feel very comfortable alone when I'm alone. I don't have any need to go out. I'm fine watching a movie with a bowl of popcorn at home.

This subject is something I worry a bit for my Alla. The fact that she has her theatre background, she is used to being around "artsy" very social people. We have spoke about this many times. She told me she is wanting a change and really wants to concentrate on family. In her always interesting words, "Jeffery, I was in theatre because I had not a man in my life. I wanted excitement and not to be bored in my free time. But I have you now. I have my children. It will be enough" I do hope that she will not become overly bored here.

The doctor is in.

Again, I don't have the actual experience of living with my SO yet, so I'm short on practical advice. It could very well be that 6 months from now I'll be in your situation doing a search for this thread (photo thread...must remember photo thread!) to see what other people advised.

But I think it's pretty clear that she needs to figure out a way to broaden her social circle. Again, I don't know your wife, but I have a hard time buying that it's a choice she makes. Or at least not a choice she wants to make. If it were a choice then she'd have some level of resignation to it, but that's not what I see you describing. It sounds to me like she's coming up with a lot of excuses to not make friends, and that could be a symptom of anything from shyness to clinical, but is most likely something in between. I think it's up to you and her to figure it out. Nobody *wants* to be unhappy or lonely, but many of us cling to it when we've gone through something very life-changing. I used to be a real social butterfly until after my divorce. I holed up and didn't come out for a long time. I still have a difficult time making friends now and hanging out with people. I hate that I'm not as social as I used to be, but there is a strange comfort to it too.

Anway, my 2 kopeks.

OK..... any relationship advice I give probably borders on malpractice..... but here goes. Like Kirk and Jeffrey, I also fell off the face of the earth after my 19-year marriage. All our friends (with the exception of my to-the-death fraternity brothers) were "couple friends" and just did not know what to do with me as a "third-wheel" single. My former church friends, with the exception of one man that had been divorced, totally abandoned me now that I bore the scarlet "D" of divorce. If anything, I learned who my true friends were...... and were not.

With respect to my current relationship with Natalia, I knew going in that social isolation might be a problem once she arrived. Accordingly, I developed a long-range plan. Now Natalia is a special case because she is an upscale attorney in her country and had the money and freedom to visit me in the USA. During her USA visit, she met my family and did many social things with my former couple friends..... which felt more comfortable relating to me now that I was a couple again. Natalia also speaks english well which was invaluable in her being able to relate to my friends. After she returned to Russia, Natalia also had the means to afford monthly internet service. Webcam was a Godsend in more ways than the obvious. For the past year, Natalia has been speaking on webcam once a week with my children. Natalia also has been speaking on webcam maybe 30 minutes to an hour each day with my mother. My father passed away last year and Natalia and my mom have become very close. Natalia already feels like she has a strong connection with my family even before she comes here next month. Obviously, this required a strong financial and time commitment from Natalia. However, it was well worth it and the end result is that she is already 50% plugged-in before her foot ever touches USA soil.

When Natalia arrives next month, I plan on inviting our couple friends to our home for dinner at least 1 or 2 times each month. Natalia and I will also host parties at our home maybe once a quarter or every 6 months.

My couple friends were also intitially skeptical of Natalia and our relationship. However, most of the skepticism dissipated once they met her.

Now none of this pre-arrival plug-in advice helps Slim much. His wife is already here and already feels isolated whether by personal choice or outside circumstances. Nevertheless, here is my border-line malpractice relationship advice:

1. Get her english up to conversational level if it is not there already.

2. She does not like your friends? If they are mostly beer drinking buddies, then it is probably time to expand your frienship circle to include more couples.

3. She is a snob? I can't help you there if she is truly a snob and thinks your friends are low-class. If they are low-class then it is probably time to level-up. If they are not low-class, then there is probably something else going on. Communication problems due to poor english skills? One or more of your dude friends hitting on her? The USA wives treating her like a Russian scammer ######? You will need to figure this out.

4. Once you figure out what is really going on (See Step 3), then it's time to step up and host things at your home. I can relate if this is outside your comfort level. I was a litigation attorney for 15 years. Many people find me intimidating. My basic personality can not really be described as warm and fuzzy. I am not a social guy and relating to others, especially new people, is something of a chore for me. Anyway, that is my problem and I need to get past it.

5. She is bored and lonely when you are putting in the long work hours? DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON. KG Sodie had some good advice here. Do more things, even very simple things, together.

6. Never underestimate the power of simple gestures to a Russian woman..... or any woman for that matter. Most Russian women like being presented with flowers. Every couple of weeks or so, buy a small $7 - $10 boquet at your local supermarket. Tell her frequently that you love her and that she is a "smoking-hot" babe. From your past posts, it sounds like she truly blossomed as a woman during the interim when you first met her and when she came to you in the USA. She got lots and lots of male attention it sounds like. Give her lots of compliments. Lay it on thick. What might seem a "bit much" to an american woman probably just barely scratches the surface with her.

OK...... that's probably more than enough for now.

Good Luck

Buck

[Jason-Sasha 1]

I have to say that i never made any friends in America when i was living there. Maybe, it's just me because i am the kind of person for whom it's pretty difficult to make friends. Sometimes i feel I'm not at all open to people. Though I did meet a couple of people whom i really like to communicate with but they were in their fifties so we didn't really had much in common. I can't call them friends of course. And i just couldn't make friends with American girls of my age. We were too different. At the same time I didn't really like Russians that I met there. Maybe i'm just too picky. So I spent all of my free time with Jason. And it was great. Never wanted anything else.

I think it's a normal situation for people who go to another country to live there. it takes time to find new friends. Sometimes it takes years. But i'm sure that when we are living together with Jason again eventually i will find friends. We are all sociable creatures, we just need to communicate with others besides our beloved ones. I'm not worried about it at all even if sometimes i have problems with getting to know new people. Sometime in future i will have close friends, meanwhile i won't be bored with Jason. I never was.

Sasha

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Some very good thoughts here, Buck!

I 100% understand the scarlet "D". As for the list, I will state #6 is highly important and Buck stated it well.

OK..... any relationship advice I give probably borders on malpractice..... but here goes. Like Kirk and Jeffrey, I also fell off the face of the earth after my 19-year marriage. All our friends (with the exception of my to-the-death fraternity brothers) were "couple friends" and just did not know what to do with me as a "third-wheel" single. My former church friends, with the exception of one man that had been divorced, totally abandoned me now that I bore the scarlet "D" of divorce. If anything, I learned who my true friends were...... and were not.

With respect to my current relationship with Natalia, I knew going in that social isolation might be a problem once she arrived. Accordingly, I developed a long-range plan. Now Natalia is a special case because she is an upscale attorney in her country and had the money and freedom to visit me in the USA. During her USA visit, she met my family and did many social things with my former couple friends..... which felt more comfortable relating to me now that I was a couple again. Natalia also speaks english well which was invaluable in her being able to relate to my friends. After she returned to Russia, Natalia also had the means to afford monthly internet service. Webcam was a Godsend in more ways than the obvious. For the past year, Natalia has been speaking on webcam once a week with my children. Natalia also has been speaking on webcam maybe 30 minutes to an hour each day with my mother. My father passed away last year and Natalia and my mom have become very close. Natalia already feels like she has a strong connection with my family even before she comes here next month. Obviously, this required a strong financial and time commitment from Natalia. However, it was well worth it and the end result is that she is already 50% plugged-in before her foot ever touches USA soil.

When Natalia arrives next month, I plan on inviting our couple friends to our home for dinner at least 1 or 2 times each month. Natalia and I will also host parties at our home maybe once a quarter or every 6 months.

My couple friends were also intitially skeptical of Natalia and our relationship. However, most of the skepticism dissipated once they met her.

Now none of this pre-arrival plug-in advice helps Slim much. His wife is already here and already feels isolated whether by personal choice or outside circumstances. Nevertheless, here is my border-line malpractice relationship advice:

1. Get her english up to conversational level if it is not there already.

2. She does not like your friends? If they are mostly beer drinking buddies, then it is probably time to expand your frienship circle to include more couples.

3. She is a snob? I can't help you there if she is truly a snob and thinks your friends are low-class. If they are low-class then it is probably time to level-up. If they are not low-class, then there is probably something else going on. Communication problems due to poor english skills? One or more of your dude friends hitting on her? The USA wives treating her like a Russian scammer ######? You will need to figure this out.

4. Once you figure out what is really going on (See Step 3), then it's time to step up and host things at your home. I can relate if this is outside your comfort level. I was a litigation attorney for 15 years. Many people find me intimidating. My basic personality can not really be described as warm and fuzzy. I am not a social guy and relating to others, especially new people, is something of a chore for me. Anyway, that is my problem and I need to get past it.

5. She is bored and lonely when you are putting in the long work hours? DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON. KG Sodie had some good advice here. Do more things, even very simple things, together.

6. Never underestimate the power of simple gestures to a Russian woman..... or any woman for that matter. Most Russian women like being presented with flowers. Every couple of weeks or so, buy a small $7 - $10 boquet at your local supermarket. Tell her frequently that you love her and that she is a "smoking-hot" babe. From your past posts, it sounds like she truly blossomed as a woman during the interim when you first met her and when she came to you in the USA. She got lots and lots of male attention it sounds like. Give her lots of compliments. Lay it on thick. What might seem a "bit much" to an american woman probably just barely scratches the surface with her.

OK...... that's probably more than enough for now.

Good Luck

Buck